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LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3120 on: June 03, 2017, 12:47:25 am »

A lot of people agree with him.  Why is it that the autism rate has exploded?  It's doubled since 2000.  1 in 68 births.  It's a serious situation.  https://spectrumnews.org/news/u-s-stats-show-autism-rate-reaching-possible-plateau/

Have they determine the reason?

1 in 68 is quite high. Since 2000, lot of food and many basic food ingredients have been changed. So did many environmental factors.
The scientists and doctors still don't know the causes.
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Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3121 on: June 03, 2017, 01:08:40 am »

A lot of people agree with him.  Why is it that the autism rate has exploded?  It's doubled since 2000.  1 in 68 births.  It's a serious situation.  https://spectrumnews.org/news/u-s-stats-show-autism-rate-reaching-possible-plateau/

Have they determine the reason?

Two things:

Data is not the plural of anecdote.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
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Phil Brown

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3122 on: June 03, 2017, 01:56:59 am »

You don't understand VAT at all, do you.  It's a sale tax.  It's broad-based.  It applies to imports and locally produced items equally.

Sadly, many/most Trump supporters as well as Trump himself doesn't seem to understand VAT. This seems to cover it pretty well:

European Commission > Taxation and Customs Union > Business > VAT > What is VAT?

Quote
What is VAT?

The Value Added Tax, or VAT, in the European Union is a general, broadly based consumption tax assessed on the value added to goods and services. It applies more or less to all goods and services that are bought and sold for use or consumption in the European Union. Thus, goods which are sold for export or services which are sold to customers abroad are normally not subject to VAT. Conversely imports are taxed to keep the system fair for EU producers so that they can compete on equal terms on the European market with suppliers situated outside the Union.

Within the EU the VAT varies a bit by country but in general most goods and services are taxed at the general rate of about 20% with some goods & services at a reduced rate depending on the category. For example, in Germany, the VAT is %19 for general rate but only 7% for the reduced rate. Ironically, books are only taxed at the reduced 7% rate.

Alan was trying to explain that the EU has such high tax rates but in fact that is simply not true. So, I don't know what Trump thinks he's gonna be able to do about what he thinks is unfair trade practices because those practices largely don't exist except for certain very specific goods and services. Inevitably for two economies of such size with such a high volume of trade, the EU and the US encounter a number of trade disputes which are handled through the dispute settlement mechanism of the WTO.

Given the low average tariffs (under 3%), the key to unlocking US/EU trade potential lies in the tackling of non-tariff barriers. These consist mainly of customs procedures and behind the border regulatory restrictions.

The non-tariff barriers come from diverging regulatory systems (standards definitions notably), but also other non-tariff measures, such as those related to certain aspects of security or consumer protection. That requires additional negotiating...

The EU and US has had formal trade relations called the Transatlantic Economic Council since 2007.  The US and EU have agreed since 2013 to work on a new trade agreement called the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (T-TIP). The most recent report was released 1/1/2017 just 20 days before Trump took office. Sadly, I suspect Trump recent behavior and attitudes will not bode well for an enhanced US/EO trade agreement.

Trump talks like he knows what he's talking about but it's very clear he has no clue about the complexity involved with negotiating major trade agreements. He doesn't have a head for details...

I'm pretty sure he didn't really understand the Trans-Pacific Partnership but he killed it because he promised he would there by giving regional control to China.

He threatened to pull out of NAFTA but his adviser smartly talked him down from the ledge. He pulled out of the Paris agreement because he said he would even if he didn't understand what the agreement really meant (giving China and the EU leading/controlling interests).

He was all set to blow out NATO until his military buddies got ahold of him but he when to Europe and pissed them off anyway. He pissed of the G7 too, heaven help us in July when the 2017 G20 summit is held in Hamburg (Germany's home court).

Yeah, I'm all for making more money...although I don't write the books for money–if I counted the hours it took vs the royalties I've earned, I'm pretty sure it would be below minimum wage :~)

At some point Trump supporters will wake up and discovered they've been lied to and that Trump is a fraud. The #FailingNYT said it pretty well...(BTW,

A Fake and a Fraud

Quote
Donald Trump’s mounting reversals, failures and betrayals make it increasingly clear that he is a fake and a fraud.

For many of us, this is affirmative reinforcement; for others, it is devastating revelation.

But it is those who believed — and cast supportive ballots — who should feel most cheated and also most contrite. You placed your faith in a phony. His promises are crashing to earth like a fleet of paper airplanes.

He oversold what he could deliver because he had no idea what would be required to deliver it, nor did he care. He told you what you wanted to hear so that he could get what he wanted to have. He played you for fools.

That wall will not be paid for by Mexico, if in fact it is ever built. If it is built, it will likely look nothing like what Trump said it would look like. His repeal and replace of Obamacare flopped. That failure endangers his ability to deliver on major tax reform and massive infrastructure spending. China is no longer in danger of being labeled a currency manipulator. The administration is now sending signals that ripping up the Iran nuclear deal isn’t a sure bet.

Trump has done a complete about-face on the Federal Reserve chairwoman, Janet Yellen, and when was the last time you heard him threaten to lock up Hillary Clinton?

This is by no means an exhaustive list of the positions he took for in-the-moment advantage that have been quickly converted into in-reality abandonment.

He isn’t cunningly unpredictable; he’s tragically unprepared and dangerously unprincipled.
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3123 on: June 03, 2017, 02:30:52 am »

Europe is the one that has higher import taxes.  Of course you want to talk about it.  That's all you guys will do, talk, just like the NATO 2% issue.  Trump's not stupid.  The only way you'll change is it's forced upon you by us matching your import costs.  He's said that he's in favor of free trade, as long as its fair trade.
Trade deals between the US and Europe that were negotiated in the past resulted in lower import duties for US exports to Europe and lower import duties for European goods in the US. At the moments these deals are negotiated they are balanced and fair. If the character of the export streams change you don't call the deals "unfair" or your trading partners "bad". That's just stupid populist blabber. You go through the process and negotiate an update to reflect the changes. That's how adults deal with this and the issue is normally not used for campaign purposes and spreading fake news to gain votes and support at home (which is how Trump is handling it)

And let me repeat here what I said in the other thread about the NATO issue you keep bringing up:

Oh, here comes the silly NATO argument again, it's just more alt-right alligator tears. The US (and the US taxpayers) didn't spend one penny more on the US defense budget because some countries are not up to the long term target of 2% which was agreed a few years ago. Harping on this issue and completely misrepresenting what it really means is only counterproductive and will not achieve anything.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 02:42:33 am by pegelli »
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pieter, aka pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3124 on: June 03, 2017, 03:34:45 am »

And to re-iterate, the EU has, on a trade-weighted basis, basically the same level of tariffs as the US, but as a straight out level (unweighted), the US has a higher level (2.8% versus 2.1%) compared to the EU.
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Phil Brown

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3125 on: June 03, 2017, 03:57:36 am »

And to re-iterate, the EU has, on a trade-weighted basis, basically the same level of tariffs as the US, but as a straight out level (unweighted), the US has a higher level (2.8% versus 2.1%) compared to the EU.
Thanks, for me it's more proof that Trump is just a clown trying to con his supporters in accepting "the US hasn't got a fair deal", while on the other hand this is really far away from the truth.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3126 on: June 03, 2017, 06:32:24 am »

And to re-iterate, the EU has, on a trade-weighted basis, basically the same level of tariffs as the US, but as a straight out level (unweighted), the US has a higher level (2.8% versus 2.1%) compared to the EU.

That's unfair to Europe, we want a better deal ;)

So it's another Fake fact by Trump. The man starts lying when he opens his mouth or starts tweeting. What's possibly worse, his followers believe him, which means that he will not be automatically corrected by the political system of checks and balances. It's a recipe for disaster, and the followers are also to blame for the outcome.

Cheers,
Bart
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3127 on: June 03, 2017, 06:36:21 am »

A lot of people agree with him.  Why is it that the autism rate has exploded?  It's doubled since 2000.  1 in 68 births.  It's a serious situation.  https://spectrumnews.org/news/u-s-stats-show-autism-rate-reaching-possible-plateau/

Have they determine the reason?

Has the autism rate doubled since 2000? Do we know this for a fact?

But assuming it has, and it's not just new definitions or methods of diagnosis, why point to vaccines as a cause? We started using vaccines long before 2000. Maybe it was crop circles. Maybe it was too much tin foil. The link to vaccines was debunked a while ago now.

And the fact that a lot of people "agree with him" is a statement of the problem.

Have they determined the reason, you ask? I know nothing about the field, but I don't think so. What it will require is more research by qualified scientists, not witchcraft or snake oil. To my mind, promoting the idea of a link is borderline criminal, and a cynical threat to public health.

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Robert

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3128 on: June 03, 2017, 06:36:39 am »

Well, time to relax a bit for the upcoming week. It will be interesting, one way or the other.

Will Trump block Comey testimony? White House does not know yet
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN18T1WZ

"White House officials said on Friday they did not know yet whether President Donald Trump would seek to block former FBI Director James Comey from testifying to Congress next week, a move that could spark a political backlash.

"I have not spoken to counsel yet. I don't know how they're going to respond," White House spokesman Sean Spicer told reporters.

Comey was leading a Federal Bureau of Investigation probe into alleged Russian meddling in last year's U.S. presidential election and possible collusion by Trump's campaign when the president fired him last month.

Critics have charged that Trump was seeking to hinder the FBI's investigation by dismissing Comey.

The former FBI chief is due to testify on Thursday before the Senate Intelligence Committee as part of its own Russia-related investigation, and his remarks could cause problems for the Republican president."


Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3129 on: June 03, 2017, 06:51:07 am »

I understand that that VAT taxes for products sold in Europe are applied to both imports and to domestically produced items.  However, the VAT is stripped off of exports to the US.    The manufacturer gets the VAT reimbursed or credited by the government. 

However, because the US does not have a VAT tax, other US taxes a corporation pays including property taxes, local taxes, etc, are still carried in the cost of the product exported to Europe. All other production costs being equal,  European products shipped to America are effectively cheaper than similar products made in the US.  But US products shipped to Europe not only have the European VAT tax added, but still carry the tax load from America. 

It seems to make the playing field equal, the US could strip US tax costs on exported items.   That would reduce the price of America products sold in Europe and make our products more competitive there.  But America still faces the problem with imports since they have no taxes while American goods still carry US taxes.  This puts American produced products at a disadvantage in our own country.  It's costs are higher because of the US taxes. The other option would be to add a tax on imports to raise it's cost to match American taxes collected on American products.  After all,  Europe does basically the same thing when it applies the VAT. 

I realize this is all not simple.  And I understand that Europe doesn't like Trump's threats.  But the American President is responsible for protecting American industry and our workers and jobs.  And this imbalance hurts America.  He should address it as he said he would during the campaign.

Here's an article from the Huffington Post, not exactly a conservative media outlet, that agrees there's a disadvantage to America. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ian-fletcher/sorry-but-the-us-does-ind_b_12242314.html


pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3130 on: June 03, 2017, 07:00:06 am »

I understand that that VAT taxes for products sold in Europe are applied to both imports and to domestically produced items.  However, the VAT is stripped off of exports to the US.    The manufacturer gets the VAT reimbursed or credited by the government. 

However, because the US does not have a VAT tax, other US taxes a corporation pays including property taxes, local taxes, etc, are still carried in the cost of the product exported to Europe. All other production costs being equal,  European products shipped to America are effectively cheaper than similar products made in the US.  But US products shipped to Europe not only have the European VAT tax added, but still carry the tax load from America. 

It seems to make the playing field equal, the US could strip US tax costs on exported items.   That would reduce the price of America products sold in Europe and make our products more competitive there.  But America still faces the problem with imports since they have no taxes while American goods still carry US taxes.  This puts American produced products at a disadvantage in our own country.  It's costs are higher because of the US taxes. The other option would be to add a tax on imports to raise it's cost to match American taxes collected on American products.  After all,  Europe does basically the same thing when it applies the VAT. 

I realize this is all not simple.  And I understand that Europe doesn't like Trump's threats.  But the American President is responsible for protecting American industry and our workers and jobs.  And this imbalance hurts America.  He should address it as he said he would during the campaign.

Here's an article from the Huffington Post, not exactly a conservative media outlet, that agrees there's a disadvantage to America. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ian-fletcher/sorry-but-the-us-does-ind_b_12242314.html
Alan, European companies also have corporate, property and all the other taxes American companies have and probably even at a higher rate, since tax rates are typically higher over here. Only the VAT is stripped off at the border, so the European companies are still managing to sell their goods in the US given this disadvantage. And the US has on average higher import duties then Europe. So there's a double wammy hit for European products sold in the US. Who is getting the unfair deal here?

The Huffington Post article is interesting, but they are only looking at one small aspect, not the big picture.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 07:03:26 am by pegelli »
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pieter, aka pegelli

Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3131 on: June 03, 2017, 07:35:30 am »

I understand that that VAT taxes for products sold in Europe are applied to both imports and to domestically produced items.  However, the VAT is stripped off of exports to the US.    The manufacturer gets the VAT reimbursed or credited by the government.

Yes, VAT only applies to items purchased in the country charging VAT. 

However, because the US does not have a VAT tax, other US taxes a corporation pays including property taxes, local taxes, etc, are still carried in the cost of the product exported to Europe.

Firstly, the US DOES have a VAT equivalent.  45 states collect statewide sales taxes and 38 states collect local sales taxes.  These taxes are the same as a VAT.  They are not charged when a US company exports (i.e. I don't pay sales tax when I buy something from the US, just as many  in the US don't pay sales taxes if they buy from interstate).  The only real difference is that VAT is nationwide.

You're also assuming that EU countries don't impose any other sorts of taxes that are not removed for export.  You're wrong in that assumption.  All those taxes are carried in the same way as they are by US companies.

All other production costs being equal,  European products shipped to America are effectively cheaper than similar products made in the US.

Nope.

But US products shipped to Europe not only have the European VAT tax added, but still carry the tax load from America. 

Just as EU products shipped to the US have taxes other than VAT still carried.  You still demonstrate that you don't understand what a VAT is.  It's a sales tax.

On top of that, the EU has an average tax/GDP percentage that is about 9% higher than the US, so the EU generally pays more tax, so it is likely that their underlying taxes which burden the cost of sale are on average higher than the US.

It seems to make the playing field equal, the US could strip US tax costs on exported items.

Only if you don't understand that VAT and sales tax are essentially the same thing and that both EU and US firms face other taxes that add to their costs and which are not removed for either.  Also, it's the US that adds those other taxes to US exports, not the EU, so how has the EU got anything to do with that?  If you're not competitive because of your internal tax system, that's your problem and nothing to do with the EU.

That would reduce the price of America products sold in Europe and make our products more competitive there.  But America still faces the problem with imports since they have no taxes while American goods still carry US taxes.

Complete false.  EU produced items still carry tax costs from an economic zone with higher overall taxation than the US.  You have a natural competitive advantage, not to mention that imported items to the US may face tariffs and they definitely carry shipping and handling costs that are higher than domestically produced items.  If you can't compete against that, it's your fault, nothing to do with the EU. 

This puts American produced products at a disadvantage in our own country.  It's costs are higher because of the US taxes.

Nope, see above.

The other option would be to add a tax on imports to raise it's cost to match American taxes collected on American products.  After all,  Europe does basically the same thing when it applies the VAT.

Ummm, no.  In the US, if some company imports from the EU (let's say it's a BMW dealer since Trump had a go at them), the US states collect sales tax just as they would on a locally produced car.  Adding a tax on imports is called a tariff and as I've pointed out several times, on a straight number basis the US has a higher tariff rate than the EU already, but on a fairer trade-weighted basis they're the same to 1 decimal point.

Plus, as I've mentioned, the EU products already have other taxes that are not VAT carried on them, the same as US ones, plus additional freight and handling.

Now, if an individual imports and item bought, say, online, then they may not pay state sales taxes.  The same thing happens here in Australia - anything under $1,000- as a personal import is not subject to GST (our VAT).  Over that, and you have to pay it.  It probably varies a little by country, but the EU members will be similar and have a threshold over which VAT is due.  If the US states don't do the same, that's their problem but it's not going to make a big difference in whether someone buys a BMW or a Chevy.

I realize this is all not simple.

Actually, it is.  But you need to understand some basic concepts first, and you don't, which means your entire premise is wrong.

And I understand that Europe doesn't like Trump's threats.

Most of the US doesn't like Trump, let alone the rest of the world.

But the American President is responsible for protecting American industry and our workers and jobs.  And this imbalance hurts America.  He should address it as he said he would during the campaign.

Except there is no imbalance in terms of fairness.  The EU is just better at some things than the US, or China can make them cheaper, or whatever the particular item is.  Trump doesn't understand how simple this is or what's really happening.  He is fixated that a trade deficit for the US is a bad thing, not realising that the US long ago stopped being a manufacturing base and moved into services and capital.  The whole world can't run at a trade surplus.  The global economy is a closed loop.  It has to balance.  Some people export more some import more, some have more capital coming in and some have more going out.  None of any of it is particularly bad or good - just different parts of the same process.

Here's an article from the Huffington Post, not exactly a conservative media outlet, that agrees there's a disadvantage to America. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ian-fletcher/sorry-but-the-us-does-ind_b_12242314.html

The author also misses the point that you DO collect VAT (sales taxes) in the US.  The difference is only that you don't do it at the national level and instead do it at the state level.  If that prevents you from collecting it on imports then you do indeed need to fix that, but that's your problem, and nothing to do with the EU.

We went through the switch to GST (VAT) nearly 20 years ago - quite new compared to a lot of EU members.  It meant the states had to forgo a lot of their tax collection so the federal government would collect GST on their behalf and then fund it back to them (the federal government does not use a single cent of GST in its funding - it all goes back to the states).  There's some argument from the states about the allocation, but the reality is they all get a say on it along with federal guidelines (so the states can't be silly about it and have to base it on a common process agreed when it was setup) and it all works.

The states do have a few other tax income streams, and the federal government relies mostly on income tax and a few duties and tariffs.

So, yeah, maybe you need to change the way you do taxes to catch taxes on some imports, but only those that are directly imported by consumers.  Those that come in and are resold do have local US state taxes applied and contrary to the author's assertions it doesn't just "zero out" - it's no different than what happens when the EU imports US products.

It is a level playing field, but the US may be hobbling itself slightly if the states haven't worked out how to collect tax from people importing items directly.

Again, not an EU problem and nothing that Trump has said or done addresses the actual issue.

Oh, and that author you felt couldn't be right wing because he's on Huff?  https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/09/01/in-response-to-ian-fletcher/#589be4b71637

Fletcher is an isolationist with unsupported economic theories who basically thinks that building a big wall (economically speaking) will help the US.  No wonder he appeals to Trumpeters.
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Phil Brown

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3132 on: June 03, 2017, 08:56:35 am »

I agree that America economic house is in disorder.  But some of that is because we continue to spend internationally when we can no longer afford it. Europe spends the 2% it's not spending on it's military on health care for it's people.  Meanwhile, America is struggling to figure out where our health money is coming from while our military spends far too much overseas.    And Trump is raising military spending.  I'm not in favor of a fortress America.  But something's gotta give.  We can't afford things anymore.  We've got too many commitments to Europe, Asia, etc.

Regarding trade, the VAT may be an area that cannot be directly adjusted.  But we'll see.  I'm curious how the rest of Europe though feels about Germany.  Because of the common Euro, the cost of German production is artificially low.  It would be much higher if all of Europe still had their own money.  German use of the Euro  is hurting other European countries as well as America, maybe more.  What's their feeling on trade imbalances between Germany and these other EU countries?

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3133 on: June 03, 2017, 11:40:50 am »

If all 50 states in the USA had their own currency, do you think that the Californian dollar would have the same value as that of, for example, the Utah or Indiana 'dollar' ?

California is the sixth biggest economy in the world. If it was a free trading nation with it's own currency demand for it would be strong, and its exchange value would certainly be greater than most of the other states. As it stands now, they all have the same currency, the same PPP.

Likewise within the EU.


Regarding trade, the VAT may be an area that cannot be directly adjusted.  But we'll see.  I'm curious how the rest of Europe though feels about Germany.  Because of the common Euro, the cost of German production is artificially low.  It would be much higher if all of Europe still had their own money.  German use of the Euro  is hurting other European countries as well as America, maybe more.  What's their feeling on trade imbalances between Germany and these other EU countries?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3134 on: June 03, 2017, 12:09:37 pm »

If all 50 states in the USA had their own currency, do you think that the Californian dollar would have the same value as that of, for example, the Utah or Indiana 'dollar' ?

California is the sixth biggest economy in the world. If it was a free trading nation with it's own currency demand for it would be strong, and its exchange value would certainly be greater than most of the other states. As it stands now, they all have the same currency, the same PPP.

Likewise within the EU.


We're all Americans.  Greeks and Spaniards aren't German.   In any case, you didn't answer my question.  How do the other countries feel about German monetary advantages when it comes to trade.

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3135 on: June 03, 2017, 12:30:57 pm »

We're all Americans.  Greeks and Spaniards aren't German.   

No, they're Europeans. That's the EU.
You have the Federal Reserve, they have the ECB.
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Manoli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3136 on: June 03, 2017, 12:38:15 pm »

Around 4:45 NYC time, it's that Champions League final : Juventus v Real Madrid at the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff, Wales ( you know that funny country with a language no-one else speaks, just across the water from Ireland). I know it's not American Football nor, in the words of the great Bill Shankly, is it 'a matter of life and death - it's far more important than that'.

Try it, you might just enjoy it.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3137 on: June 03, 2017, 12:41:39 pm »

But they don't like each other.   Isn't their hanging together mainly because it's so advantageous to them they bailed out the Greeks?  Even the Brits couldn't take it anymore.   You still haven't answered my question.

Manoli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3138 on: June 03, 2017, 01:45:42 pm »

But they don't like each other.   

Says who ?

Alan - it's not the right thread, and it's not a simple question.

Trump was/is the only free-world leader that actively sought, and celebrated, the (incorrectly perceived) break-up of the EU. Landing in Scotland, Last June he tweeted what a great day it was that Scotland had voted to 'Leave'. Only problem was that Scotland had voted to 'Remain' 62:38 .

Kinda sets a bad tone when your Prezzy actively wishes the break-up and economic penury on its Allies. One year on, and the Euro is pushing 14-month highs , economic data is improving (slowly), and what a few months ago what many thought likely - now seems less so.

Both Holland and France rejected the far right and embraced a centrist, pro-European agenda. England faces a General Election next Thursday where the the ruling Conservatives, leading by 28 points in the polls and anticipating a landslide, now lead by only 4 points. German elections will soon follow and judging by her success, Merkel will almost certainly prevail.

The Brits voted to Leave, just. Not the Scots , not the Irish and the Welsh may have changed their mind. London was almost 80% 'Remain'. Now they're starting to understand the economic consequences of leaving - increased deficits, higher taxation and debatable policy on immigration. Economically it made no sense. You're leaving the biggest trading block to trade with who ? India ? Modi wasn't having anything of it, and next he's on a plane to Berlin looking to cement EU ties.

The dynamics you refer to exist not just within the EU, but within countries also. Same within Italy, same within the UK (who support Scotland) and the same in Spain where the Catalans (aka Barcelona) who have a massive trade surplus sought and continue to seek Independence from Spain - so much so that at the '92 Olympics in Barcelona , the King of Spain made his speech in both Catalan (first) and Spanish (second).

Get the picture ? Complicated. But the bottom line is EU is in it for the long haul. Think of it as a fledgling nation, plenty of crises and reforms to come. As there were with America back in the early 1800's.

But really all this is for another thread.
Try the football - you'll enjoy it ( just don't support the wrong team  https://instagram.com/p/BU4ttedjUhv/ ...) 

« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 04:19:00 am by Manoli »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3139 on: June 03, 2017, 02:00:34 pm »

Manoli:  I think Trump is thinking about what's good for America.  Maybe he feels he can negotiate better with independent countries.  That's why he likes the fact the Brits are leaving the EU.  They'll need us and he can negotiate a better deal on trade and other things. 

As an aside, Europe isn't like the American States were back in the 1800's.  The States were all American and they spoke a common language.  Except for our civil war, we fought with each other not against.   Maybe it's good there's an EU and NATO.  Less chance they'll start shooting at each other again and drag us in to another European war.   Maybe that's what Mattis told him so he'd warmed up to NATO.   It's cheaper keeping the peace than fighting a war. 
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