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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918070 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3080 on: June 02, 2017, 10:25:44 am »

And Macron was clever enough to do it in English. And the invitation to USA citizens to come and work in France was a nice touch, probably also more to the point now that the EPA is getting dismantled.

The only negative is that Canada wanted also all those smart Americans ;)
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3081 on: June 02, 2017, 10:46:50 am »

The only negative is that Canada wanted also all those smart Americans ;)

Only good news for their market value, and for feeling welcome instead of being pucked out for their warnings and for producing measurements of effects.

Cheers,
Bart
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3082 on: June 02, 2017, 11:15:58 am »

Just to make sure we don't lose perspective:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

Especially relevant if we combine that with a view of that list sorted on per capita contribution.
China has a long way to go, but they do have a much larger population.

So using China as an excuse to feel disadvantaged is also based on Fake facts.
Besides, China is developing, whereas the USA has been polluting for a long time already, as shown in the attached Cumulative CO2 emission chart (arribution:By Chris55 - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=42211244).

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 11:43:52 am by BartvanderWolf »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3083 on: June 02, 2017, 11:39:10 am »

So, along comes Trump (who didn't realize that he couldn't negotiate a unilateral trade agreement with Germany when he met with Angela Merkel) who is going to sit down with who, the G7 countries he just spat on?  Eeeeeeek, I suspect that won't go down well...

I was going to write out a well thought out and researched response to your simplistic example but even though I had a bunch written, I realized it would be tilting at windmills. Trump and his supporters have overly simplistic and largely incorrect impressions of foreign trade, the impact on jobs the cost/benefit of trade deficits or surpluses and a misunderstanding of tariffs, duties, VAT and other taxes. I could try to explain these things to you but so far you don't seem to be grasping the explanations even if delivered by hyper conservative economics like the CATO Institute.

Trump, as he has admitted in several interviews, had no clue how difficult the job of being President would be. He's not having fun...his experience in his businesses are not serving to help him learn how to govern. The people he's surrounded himself with the exception of the national security and defense people are unschooled in governance and are political rookies. They are being outplayed on the field. Some Trump supporters thought that would be good to go to Washington and tear it down and build it back up with a different shape and nature. Problem is, doing that is very difficult as Trump & team have found out and they aren't handling the difficulties well.

Today Trump said: "We don't want other leaders and other countries laughing at us anymore," thundered President Trump, "and they won't be."

Yeah, they aren't laughing...they are crying...while this is about the Paris Accords, it relates directly to international trade as well...it show a gross ineptitude in Trump's presidency.

The world's not laughing, Donald, it's crying

So you go right ahead and hope Trump somehow learns how to become something he's never shown any ability to do, has never done and is doing it exceptionally pool so far–you/we better hope he learns how to be president soon before we circle the drain.
You're the first businessman I ever met who didn't want to expand his sales and profits.  You're allowing your hatred of Trump distort logical thinking.  Maybe you don't need the extra money that lower European VAT and import taxes will bring you.  Simply amazing how you're willing to shoot yourself in the foot. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3084 on: June 02, 2017, 11:40:26 am »

Sorry, wrong idiom.  I meant to say cut off your nose to spite your face.

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3085 on: June 02, 2017, 11:45:32 am »

You're the first businessman I ever met who didn't want to expand his sales and profits.   
I haven't read that he said that, Jeff is just saying your logic is wrong, and I agree with him.

To say it differently, you need to look further then the end of your nose ;)
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pieter, aka pegelli

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3086 on: June 02, 2017, 11:56:37 am »

And Macron was clever enough to do it in English. And the invitation to USA citizens to come and work in France was a nice touch, probably also more to the point now that the EPA is getting dismantled.


First, may I remind you that French was the diplomatic language of the world.  Now it's English.  Second,  Macron is posturing.  France will abandon spending any money they said they would under the Paris Accords.   The other countries will do the same.  The world was hoping for America to help make them richer.  Sorry.  Trump ended the giveaway.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3087 on: June 02, 2017, 12:01:24 pm »

I haven't read that he said that, Jeff is just saying your logic is wrong, and I agree with him.

To say it differently, you need to look further then the end of your nose ;)

Trust me.  Jeff is secretly hoping Europe reduces import duties and VAT taxes so he can sell more of his photo books in Europe.  Like Trump, he's not a dummy.  In Europe, Nikons cost 35-40% more than in the USA.  Why do you think Europeans shop in B and H Photo when they travel to New York City?  If the EU dropped import duties and VATs on cameras, most Europeans on LuLa would be "tickled pink", another idiom.  They would buy more Nikons and more of Jeff's books.   :)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3088 on: June 02, 2017, 12:02:45 pm »

First, may I remind you that French was the diplomatic language of the world.  Now it's English.

Macron was not speaking to diplomats. He was speaking on French television, so in principle to the French audience and whomever else may be watching.

Quote
Second,  Macron is posturing.

No, he's not taking Trump seriously as a partner.

Quote
France will abandon spending any money they said they would under the Paris Accords.   The other countries will do the same.  The world was hoping for America to help make them richer.  Sorry.  Trump ended the giveaway.

Keep dreaming. Make America last again.

Cheers,
Bart
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3089 on: June 02, 2017, 12:02:49 pm »

  Second,  Macron is posturing.  France will abandon spending any money they said they would under the Paris Accords.   The other countries will do the same. 
You seem to be a mind reader, but I think you're just dead wrong with this statement. Europe, Russia and China have all said they will continue under the accord and it will be the US that's hurt most by this in the end. Standing on the sideline with a big mouth and hollow slogans never does your economy any good.
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pieter, aka pegelli

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3090 on: June 02, 2017, 12:04:54 pm »

Trust me.  Jeff is secretly hoping Europe reduces import duties and VAT taxes so he can sell more of his photo books in Europe.  Like Trump, he's not a dummy.  In Europe, Nikons cost 35-40% more than in the USA.  Why do you think Europeans shop in B and H Photo when they travel to New York City?  If the EU dropped import duties and VATs on cameras, most Europeans on LuLa would be "tickled pink", another idiom.  They would buy more Nikons and more of Jeff's books.   :)
Yup, selling more Nikons will make America great again ;)

Your logic is so flawed that's it's really funny to read.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3091 on: June 02, 2017, 12:13:58 pm »

Macron was not speaking to diplomats. He was speaking on French television, so in principle to the French audience and whomever else may be watching.

No, he's not taking Trump seriously as a partner.

Keep dreaming. Make America last again.

Cheers,
Bart
Trump doesn't want to be his partner in the Paris Accords. 

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3092 on: June 02, 2017, 12:14:37 pm »

Like Trump, he's not a dummy.


No need to start insulting Jeff ... To even begin comparing, duh.

By the way, VAT has nothing to do with it. It's a mechanism to tax all consumables and services, with a lower rate for essentials and a higher rate for the rest.

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3093 on: June 02, 2017, 12:15:12 pm »

Yup, selling more Nikons will make America great again ;)

Your logic is so flawed that's it's really funny to read.
You haven't explained why selling more products when import duties go down is flawed. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3094 on: June 02, 2017, 12:17:10 pm »



No need to start insulting Jeff ... To even begin comparing, duh.

By the way, VAT has nothing to do with it. It's a mechanism to tax all consumables and services, with a lower rate for essentials and a higher rate for the rest.

Cheers,
Bart
Regardless what you call it, it raises the price of a product.  If it was reduced or eliminated, people would buy more goods, including imports.  So Jeff's photo book sales would increase.

LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3095 on: June 02, 2017, 12:19:31 pm »

Trump doesn't want to be his partner in the Paris Accords.

Right now it looks like nobody wants to be a Trump's partner.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3096 on: June 02, 2017, 12:53:02 pm »

Regardless what you call it, it raises the price of a product.  If it was reduced or eliminated, people would buy more goods, including imports.  So Jeff's photo book sales would increase.

No, if VAT goes down, other taxes have to go up to balance the government's budget. Besides, businesses don't pay VAT on purchases, they only pay for the part they (re)sell at a higher price (e.g. after augmenting the product or combining it with other products/services).

But this is kind of off topic anyway, just wanted to explain that your assumptions are wrong.

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3097 on: June 02, 2017, 02:54:32 pm »

No, if VAT goes down, other taxes have to go up to balance the government's budget. Besides, businesses don't pay VAT on purchases, they only pay for the part they (re)sell at a higher price (e.g. after augmenting the product or combining it with other products/services).

But this is kind of off topic anyway, just wanted to explain that your assumptions are wrong.

Cheers,
Bart
My assumptions are not wrong and goes to the heart of Trump's argument that he made during the campaign and currrently.  That trade deals were not negotiated to be fair to America.  Previous administrations were stupid and gave away the farm.

When Europe adds 35% to the cost of our exports to the EU,  it makes our goods less competitive with similar European goods sold there.  We lose sales and jobs.  The opposite does not happen with your exports.  Yours do not go up in price so you're able to sell your products easier here putting Americans out of work.  Of course I expect Europe to oppose this because right now you have an advantage over us. 

The fact that if you eliminate those import duties and have to raise taxes elsewhere is not our concern.  We pay for things with higher personal and other corporate taxes because we don't tax your exports to us.  So hopefully, Trump will push Europe to reduce import taxes or he will penalize your exports by matching the duties you charge.  The latter might be bad for trade.  But either way, we'll be playing on an even playing field, something past administration had no clue about.  But make no mistake, Trump intends to make trade fair to America.  Frankly it's the way Republicans can assure winning in 2018, as well.  Of course Democrats will oppose him knowing that if his ideas are enacted, jobs will increase which makes Republicans stronger.  So Democrats will put politics first before helping the American worker by castigating Trump.  I hope Congress can see through this and help Trump and effectively the American worker and companies.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3098 on: June 02, 2017, 02:59:08 pm »

Right now it looks like nobody wants to be a Trump's partner.
Who cares to be in a bad deal?  The Paris climate agreement is bad for America.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3099 on: June 02, 2017, 03:01:47 pm »

My assumptions are not wrong and goes to the heart of Trump's argument that he made during the campaign and currrently.  That trade deals were not negotiated to be fair to America.

And you know that, how? Because compulsory liar Trump says so?

Cheers,
Bart
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