Trump II

[LesPalenik]

Spicer is great ... for a little humor. 

I think he needs to get the hell out of the white house, just like we need to get the hell of out the Middle East.  I say let the whole region self destruct if it wants to, and after the dust settles, make new alliances. 

I find it quite disturbing that all of a sudden other avid Trump voters are justifying this bombing.  I don't care if Assad was responsible; it's 1000s of miles away from anything USA.

He definitely needs to get out from the White House. Or at least, he should get his statements proofread by Jared Kushner.

[Alan Klein]

WW2 represented an existential threat to the Allied countries. I don't think that most people would regard anything since (Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, the various escapades in the Middle East and the political interference in South America) as being in the same category as WW2. It's difficult for me to see a persistent rationale for these other involvements. The places themselves are not better off, mostly, although South America seems to be better off than it used to be. It's not clear that's mainly because of US influence, but I could be wrong about that.

What was trying to be accomplished in all those places? Peace? Democracy? Economic domination? Whether viewed idealistically or cynically, it's not clear to me that things are working out very well in the long run. (I used "long run" somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as I personally don't really think that 2-3 generations is a very long time.) Is the world safer? Is the USA safer? Some argue that it is, based on worldwide deaths due to war and crime, but you'd never know it reading some of the above. I find that many americans feel themselves threatened to an extent that I find difficult to justify based on actual events.

Some previous writers are not happy about the USA spending money to be the world's "policeman", and others accuse the rest of the world of free-loading on the USA. But did the rest of the world REALLY ask the USA to install 700+ military bases in over 120 countries? It's hard to believe that the USA would do that just because some cheapskate allies asked for it, without wanting to do it for their own purposes, whatever those are/were.

I find it hard to make general statements on whether use of force is bad or good, it never happens without context. But I do find that the notion that someone can come in, fire a few rounds and suddenly everything is ok again, a little simple-minded.

You make thoughtful comments.  Certainly as an American, I'm not happy with the waste of lives and the social fragmentation that occurred due to the war in Vietnam.  But that was part of opposition to Communism.  Did our strong action in Vietnam stop a greater war somewhere else?  Would you argue that because the Soviets never attacked Western Europe, that NATO really wasn't necessary?  Is it necessary now to face off Russia?  Do Europeans want us to leave?  Do the Japanese, South Koreans, Philippines, Australian, etc want us to shut down our bases in the Pacific?  Should we reduce our carrier task forces from 12 to let's say 3?  Should we become Fortress America?  These are already becoming things Americans are talking about.  As our wealth shrinks and our domestic requirements increase, overseas adventures will become more unpopular.  Most Americans really don't want to be involved in all that stuff anyway.  They're more concerned about their own families as are most people around the world.  It seems almost that because of our success in WWII we have been condemned to the mantle of world policeman, although many people today would rather it be different.

[Alan Klein]

Dumb and Dumber

CBC News, Apr 11
White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Tuesday that Adolf Hitler didn't use chemical weapons — a comment at odds with Hitler's extermination of Jews during the Holocaust using gas chambers.

He later tried to weasel out by saying:
"He was not using the gas on his own people the same way that Assad is doing. He brought them into the Holocaust centers, I understand that. But (not) in the way that Bashar al-Assad used them where he went into towns, dropped them down, into the middle of towns."

Obviously, Spicer was talking about using chemical weapons on the battlefield, not poison gas used in gas chambers.  To make it seem that Spicer never heard of the Holocaust and gas chambers under Hitler is just another "gotcha" complaint taking apart a sentence of one of Trump's people.  This bit of fake news was the first thing on WABC evening news tonight. One day, Trump's going to really do something bad and no one is going to pay any attention at all.  Just more fake news. 

[LesPalenik]

Obviously, Spicer was talking about using chemical weapons on the battlefield, not poison gas used in gas chambers.  To make it seem that Spicer never heard of the Holocaust and gas chambers under Hitler is just another "gotcha" complaint taking apart a sentence of one of Trump's people.  This bit of fake news was the first thing on WABC evening news tonight. One day, Trump's going to really do something bad and no one is going to pay any attention at all.  Just more fake news.

Yeah, if you are going to be gassed, it's a big difference whether the stuff comes from a showerhead, falling bomb, or a container in some storage depot.

I didn't think that there was anybody who hasn't heard about Hitler's concentration camps and gas chamber killings, but now I'm not so sure. Or maybe they've heard it, but they  are already experiencing a decline in memory, thinking and reasoning skills.

[Alan Klein]

Yeah, if you are going to be gassed, it's a big difference whether the stuff comes from a showerhead, falling bomb, or a container in some storage depot.

I didn't think that there was anybody who hasn't heard about Hitler's concentration camps and gas chamber killings, but now I'm not so sure. Or maybe they've heard it, but they  are already experiencing a decline in memory, thinking and reasoning skills.

Spicer was making a comparison.  Assad has been using chemical weapons as bombs on the battlefield.  Hitler didn't use chemical weapons as bombs although he could have.  Your attack on Spicer is just another attempt to delegitimize the Trump administration by calling them names.  Why don't you be honest in your beliefs and just be done with it and say the Spicer and Trump are is worse than Hitler, Genghis Khan, and Tamerlane all combined. 

There. Don't you feel better now? 

[LesPalenik]

Spicer was making a comparison.  Assad has been using chemical weapons as bombs on the battlefield.  Hitler didn't use chemical weapons as bombs although he could have.  Your attack on Spicer is just another attempt to delegitimize the Trump administration by calling them names.  Why don't you be honest in your beliefs and just be done with it and say the Spicer and Trump are is worse than Hitler, Genghis Khan, and Tamerlane all combined. 

There. Don't you feel better now?

No, I don't feel better. I feel about the same as when Spicer claimed:

“This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe.”
—White House press secretary Sean Spicer, remarks to reporters, Jan. 21, 2017

Furthermore, there was never any doubt what Hitler did. On the other hand, we have yet to see any evidence that the gas attacks were indeed ordered and committed by Assad. Maybe yes, maybe not, but there is no evidence. Very similar to the made up WMD evidence in Iraq..

[Alan Klein]

No, I don't feel better. I feel about the same as when Spicer claimed:

“This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe.”
—White House press secretary Sean Spicer, remarks to reporters, Jan. 21, 2017

Furthermore, there was never any doubt what Hitler did. On the other hand, we have yet to see any evidence that the gas attacks were indeed ordered and committed by Assad. Maybe yes, maybe not, but there is no evidence. Very similar to the made up WMD evidence in Iraq..

Gen./Secretary of Defense Mattis stated a couple of hours ago in a live news conference I watched (on TV) that he personally reviewed the evidence collected.  He said that the Syrians used chemical bomb, and  planned and executed the bombing attack.  He also said that there is no current evidence that the Russians participated or knew.  Certainly, the whole world knows that Assad has used illegal chemical bombs for years.  Do you deny that? 

So what are we all to believe?  Well, Assad claims that their regular bombs hit an illegal chemical storage area of his enemy.  His enemy's chemical bomb blew up killing their own people.  So we are to believe that the Syrian one-in-a-million bomb just happen to hit the only spot in all of Syria where his enemies had stored illegal Sarin gas.  Very lucky shot of Assad's pilot.

[LesPalenik]

Gen./Secretary of Defense Mattis stated a couple of hours ago in a live news conference I watched (on TV) that he personally reviewed the evidence collected.  He said that the Syrians used chemical bomb, and  planned and executed the bombing attack.  He also said that there is no current evidence that the Russians participated or knew.  Certainly, the whole world knows that Assad has used illegal chemical bombs for years.  Do you deny that? 

So what are we all to believe?  Well, Assad claims that their regular bombs hit an illegal chemical storage area of his enemy.  His enemy's chemical bomb blew up killing their own people.  So we are to believe that the Syrian one-in-a-million bomb just happen to hit the only spot in all of Syria where his enemies had stored illegal Sarin gas.  Very lucky shot of Assad's pilot.

I don't know whom to believe - all involved parties in that war, including USA are lying. And we've seen a very similar movie before.
In 2003, Colin Powell also stated that there was an irrefutable evidence of WMD in Iraq.

there’s no question that Powell was consciously lying: he fabricated “evidence” and ignored repeated warnings that what he was saying was false.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-schwarz/colin-powell-wmd-iraq-war_b_2624620.html

But I can't imagine that Assad would be so stupid or ruthless to use chemical bombs. If he is indeed so stupid or ruthless, then he deserves the harshest punishment. As stated in one of the previous posts, a 20 liter Sarin canister would be sufficient to kill 80 people. If there is any chemical gas in Syria, there is a high probability that there is more of it than just 20l and it could be stored in multiple locations, so it wouldn't be just in one spot.

[Alan Klein]

...As stated in one of the previous posts, a 20 liter Sarin canister would be sufficient to kill 80 people. If there is any chemical gas in Syria, there is a high probability that there is more of it than just 20l and it could be stored in multiple locations, so it wouldn't be just in one spot.

So Assad stored secret stashes of Sarin in his  enemy's warehouses.  Sort of like Poe's, "The Purloined Letter". Very clever of him.

[LesPalenik]

So Assad stored secret stashes of Sarin in his  enemy's warehouses.  Sort of like Poe's, "The Purloined Letter". Very clever of him.

That's not very logical, Alan. Either you didn't understand what I wrote, or could be a sign of something more serious.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

But I can't imagine that Assad would be so stupid or ruthless to use chemical bombs. If he is indeed so stupid or ruthless, then he deserves the harshest punishment.

I think for most normal sane people it is hard to imagine what Assad is thinking.

Here's a 5 year old article about him on the neutral Reuters website:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-crisis-assad-idUSBRE86H0NA20120718

And a recent commentary on the assumed gas attack, Commentary: Why Assad used chemical weapons:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-chemical-weapons-commentary-idUSKBN17D1PN

As stated in one of the previous posts, a 20 liter Sarin canister would be sufficient to kill 80 people. If there is any chemical gas in Syria, there is a high probability that there is more of it than just 20l and it could be stored in multiple locations, so it wouldn't be just in one spot.

We don't know what's happening on the ground, but it doesn't seem logical that such an amount of Sarin was produced locally by rebel forces, and that a bomb miraculously hit the exact storage location and triggered the right kind of reaction (I don't know if mere exposure to air is enough). It is also a bit of a coincidence that the bomb hit on a day with near windless conditions, ideal for the deployment such a chemical weapon. In early morning witness reports it was mentioned by locals that the fourth bomb sounded different, less of an explosion, but with a white cloud.

But even unlikely scenarios are possible, we simply do not know for sure what happened.

Cheers,
Bart

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Spicer was making a comparison.  Assad has been using chemical weapons as bombs on the battlefield.  Hitler didn't use chemical weapons as bombs although he could have.  Your attack on Spicer is just another attempt to delegitimize the Trump administration by calling them names...

Damn, Alan, Spicer should have you as his own press secretary. You are defending him much better than he can do himself

“I made a mistake,” Spicer said in an interview with MSNBC host Great Van Susteren. “There’s no other way to say it. I got into a topic that I shouldn’t have and I screwed up.

[Alan Klein]

Damn, Alan, Spicer should have you as his own press secretary. You are defending him much better than he can do himself

Trump haters trying to link Spicer and by extension Trump to a Hitler lover or a person who's ignorant of the Holocaust for political gain diminishes the real horror of those 6 million deaths.  The media who took that cheap shot are disgraceful to their memory. 

[pegelli]

Trump haters trying to link Spicer and by extension Trump to a Hitler lover or a person who's ignorant of the Holocaust for political gain diminishes the real horror of those 6 million deaths.  The media who took that cheap shot are disgraceful to their memory.

I think you're making it worse then it really is, they just painted Spicer bad for a stupid remark, and rightfully so, because otherwise he would not have apologised. 

[Alan Klein]

I think you're making it worse then it really is, they just painted Spicer bad for a stupid remark, and rightfully so, because otherwise he would not have apologised. 

I think you're making it worse then it really is, they just painted Spicer bad for a stupid remark, and rightfully so, because otherwise he would not have apologised. 

No,  this was another "gotcha" criticism by the Trump hating media going out of their way to embarrass and demean.   No one with an IQ greater than two digits believes that Spicer thought Hitler was a nice man.  He was trying to show that Assad was worse at least in the area of using chemical bombs.  And that justifies America's attack on his air base.  I understood what he meant even if the press twisted his words. I got it.   More fake news.

[pegelli]

No,  this was another "gotcha" criticism by the Trump hating media going out of their way to embarrass and demean.   No one with an IQ greater than two digits believes that Spicer thought Hitler was a nice man.  He was trying to show that Assad was worse at least in the area of using chemical bombs.  And that justifies America's attack on his air base.  I understood what he meant even if the press twisted his words. I got it.   More fake news.

He apologised, what further proof does one need that he made a stupid remark? We all get it, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Peter McLennan]

No,  this was another "gotcha" criticism by the Trump hating media going out of their way to embarrass and demean.

No need of that.  He has his own autodemean and autoembarrass functions built in.

Also, "the Trump hating media" is a deliberate distraction and a misnomer.  The don't hate him, they're just appalled by him.

If I recall correctly, the "gotcha journalism" accusation was first used by another wingnut.  The one from Alaska who spoke the same gibberish word salad as The Orange One.

[EricV]

Fact?
"The FBI obtained a secret court order last summer to monitor the communications of an adviser to presidential candidate Donald Trump, part of an investigation into possible links between Russia and the campaign, law enforcement and other U.S. officials said." -- Washington Post

What right-wing conservatives hear:
Trump was correct -- the Obama administration did wiretap his campaign.  Obama used the FBI for political purposes, under the pretext of a Russia investigation.

What left-wing liberals hear:
The FBI has evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to influence the election.  The administration did not order the investigation; Trump lied about being targeted by Obama.

Irony:
Right-wing conservatives must think the secret FISA court acted irresponsibly.
Left-wing liberals must think the secret FISA court acted responsibly.

[Alan Klein]

Old news again on NATO paying its fair share.  Only 5 European countries out of 28 do that.  Trump met with NATO head today in White House.

“In facing our common challenges we must also ensure that NATO members meet their financial obligations and pay what they owe,” Trump said at a White House news conference after meeting with Jens Stoltenberg, the secretary general of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. “If other countries pay their fair share instead of relying on the United States to make up the difference, we will all be much more secure and our partnership will be made that much stronger.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-04-12/trump-says-nato-allies-must-meet-defense-spending-obligations

[Alan Klein]

Fact?
"The FBI obtained a secret court order last summer to monitor the communications of an adviser to presidential candidate Donald Trump, part of an investigation into possible links between Russia and the campaign, law enforcement and other U.S. officials said." -- Washington Post

What right-wing conservatives hear:
Trump was correct -- the Obama administration did wiretap his campaign.  Obama used the FBI for political purposes, under the pretext of a Russia investigation.

What left-wing liberals hear:
The FBI has evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to influence the election.  The administration did not order the investigation; Trump lied about being targeted by Obama.

Irony:
Right-wing conservatives must think the secret FISA court acted irresponsibly.
Left-wing liberals must think the secret FISA court acted responsibly.

90% of the press is biased against Trump.  That's just the way it is.  So we're going to have to listen to the Trump bashing ad nauseam.  Of course, he has four more years to get his policies enacted.