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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918066 times)

Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2220 on: April 09, 2017, 12:26:09 am »

I think you actually believe that the US could some how "fix" NK militarily with anything short of turning it into a carpark.  The optimism is exceeded only by the naivety.

Here's a useful quote on strategy that I just used in a paper I'm writing:

“In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distance view of close things.”

-   Miyamoto Musashi, translated from Go Rin No Sho, from the Book of Water.

Your eyes may be open, but you need to open your perception.
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Phil Brown

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2221 on: April 09, 2017, 01:26:05 am »

Yes, he's that smart.

Yeah...I'm not so sure...I'm not sure he can even read...

Can Donald Trump Read? There’s Evidence From Saturday Night Live That He Struggles

And...

No dissenting opinions. Very few words.

And this from Tony Schwartz his ghost writer on The Art of the Deal.

DONALD TRUMP’S GHOSTWRITER TELLS ALL

Quote
But Schwartz believes that Trump’s short attention span has left him with “a stunning level of superficial knowledge and plain ignorance.” He said, “That’s why he so prefers TV as his first news source—information comes in easily digestible sound bites.” He added, “I seriously doubt that Trump has ever read a book straight through in his adult life.” During the eighteen months that he observed Trump, Schwartz said, he never saw a book on Trump’s desk, or elsewhere in his office, or in his apartment.

Other journalists have noticed Trump’s apparent lack of interest in reading. In May, Megyn Kelly, of Fox News, asked him to name his favorite book, other than the Bible or “The Art of the Deal.” Trump picked the 1929 novel “All Quiet on the Western Front.” Evidently suspecting that many years had elapsed since he’d read it, Kelly asked Trump to talk about the most recent book he’d read. “I read passages, I read areas, I’ll read chapters—I don’t have the time,” Trump said.

Not saying ya gotta be able to read to be smart, but most of the smart people I know read...
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2222 on: April 09, 2017, 01:35:43 am »

Actually, I'm pretty sure that main-stream media has asked and been told "it's classified".
I haven't even seen that message.  I think your trust in the "system" to find convincing proof that the chemical weapons were in the planes and bombs leaving the particular Syrian airfield within a few days is overly optimistic. They tried to find evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq for a much longer time (years) and got it wrong.
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pieter, aka pegelli

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2223 on: April 09, 2017, 01:40:14 am »

The US showed jet tracked on radar to the bomb site "proving" Syria's complicity.  Of course they've said they only bombed the place and chemicals stored by their enemy blew up.  It really doesn't matter what the truth is

The bombing had nothing to do with Syria.  It was to send a message to Zi, North Korea, the Russians, Iran, NATO, our Middle East allies,  and all our enemies and friends in the world that the days of a weak American president are over.  The world will have to contend with a strong America willing to act to defend its interests.

Amazing, so you think it's justified to bomb somebody irrespective if he committed any war crimes for sending a message to another nation who's involved with you in a different conflict.

I'm sorry Alan, that doesn't make any sense to me and is a very unjustified (and dangerous) position that can only escalate the trouble in the Middle East.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2224 on: April 09, 2017, 02:41:17 am »

And be very careful to research your sources....

This is becoming supremely annoying. Every time when faced with something you don't like, you play the "source" card. I am very careful in using sources. I go to great lengths to provide a different point of view, alternative opinions and, yes, alternative facts. You can't get a different angle if your only source is MSNBC. How on Earth you are going to get a different view from the mainstream media if you do not use sources outside mainstream media!?

You have a problem with anything and everything Russian? I worked and lived eight years there, and speak fluently Russian. I know what Russia is and isn't. I know what Russian media is and isn't. Do you? Or your party line is that everything and anything Russian must be devil's spawn?

I do not need some "independent" media watchers to tell me what is reliable or not. I use my brain, education and experience to figure it out myself. I do not need someone else to count Pinocchios for me.

I spent seven years working in an American embassy. I had private dinners with American ambassadors. I know first-hand who writes (and how) State Department reports and I know their intellectual level. I set next to a lunch desk with a bunch of young American journalists, overhearing how skewed and twisted were their opinions on what they just saw and heard while visiting my country, a testament of the pitiful state of the American education on average, especially about foreign countries and history. They came with preconceived notions, and they left with it.

But all that is beyond the point. What I quoted was a freaking CANADIAN, not Russian, journalist, speaking freaking ENGLISH, not Russian, in a freaking VIDEO. See and hear it for yourself. What Russian TV has to do with it?

Oh, wait... I hear it coming: the weaseling argument - a video can be maliciously edited. Please provide evidence that a video where a journalist speaks for several minutes coherently and eloquently is edited to the point of completely changing the original meaning. Use a lip-reader, if you must, to see if the words that you hear do not match.

But why? Why do you feel the need to question the veracity of the video and her words? You do not believe that certain historical "events" can be staged to suit a political purpose? You heard of the Reichstag fire? Google it if not. The Gulf of Tonkin?  You do remember that Dick Cheney used a PR firm to plant the original fake news, long before this election, including even a "first-hand witness" testimony before Congress, how Iraqi soldiers used bayonets to kill newborn babies in a Kuwait's hospital? There are gazillion other examples throughout history, and Jeremy provided another link showing how staged some of the recent stories from Iraq and Syria are (page 110, post #2195). But of course, you'd rather believe that AWACS  can "see" what kind of nerve gas Syrian fighter planes carry inside.

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2225 on: April 09, 2017, 02:42:16 am »

I think your trust in the "system" to find convincing proof that the chemical weapons were in the planes and bombs leaving the particular Syrian airfield within a few days is overly optimistic.

Actually, I suspect they knew the exact time the planes took off, the pilot's call signs, the exact route the planes took, the exact number of bombs dropped and the exact route back to the airfield. Those are the sort of things that the AWACS airplanes can track really well. They are like air traffic control towers in a plane. They track the friendly and enemy planes in the air and can direct traffic as well as record radar and voice communications. I suspect as soon as reports came in that what was dropped was sarin gas, the air force could, with a high degree of accuracy, tell what happened and who did it.

What AWACS can do should not be underestimated but also don't confuse technical excellence of the air force with the ineptitude of the Iraq intelligence reporting WMD...two totally different arguments.

Heck, even Russia probably knows almost as much as we do although they are limited to ground based radar...they don't have anything to rival the AWACS...

But this is a side discussion not related to whether or not the US should have launched the missiles...and the larger discussion of how screwed up Syria is (and how screwed up the USA is as well).
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laughingbear

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2226 on: April 09, 2017, 03:02:02 am »

I find it amazing (and quite sad really) that virtually none of the western media is asking questions about the absence of evidence that it was actually the Assad regime that executed the chemical attack.

Hi Pieter,

remember 2013 chemical attacks? The entire world, media + politicos jumped from their seats, claiming Assas was the one. Obama was short before ordering a strike, and then things changed.

It was the turkish MIT secret service that supplied the Sarin gas to Al Nusra who orchestrated the attack, not Assad. This was a stereotype false flag ops.

Media is quick to paint the picture of the enemy in accordance with politicos, and no one asks the real questions. So we're back at shoot first, then ask questions.

Stupid!



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LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2227 on: April 09, 2017, 03:18:30 am »

"Trump should listen to his instincts and stay out of the Middle East" - Neil McDonald, columnist for CBC News

Exactly how is killing children with chlorine or phosgene or sarin materially different from torturing them to death, or shattering their bodies with crude barrel bombs, or laying siege to and starving them, or bombing a hospital to ensure they can find no treatment for their wounds, while Donald Trump's press secretary shrugs and declares that the U.S. "understands the political reality" of Assad's leadership?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/trump-middle-east-policy-1.4061371


Philip Gordon, Sr. Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations: "Trump's action on Syria doesn't get up."

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/04/08/trump-attack-on-syria-in-question-intv-mann.cnn
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 07:20:03 am by LesPalenik »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2228 on: April 09, 2017, 08:00:00 am »

Came across this FB post.

Not unbiased, of course, but then it's not the 6 o'clock news either. The critics see a dark program in place, but I prefer simpler explanations, i.e., incompetence, which is much more widespread, especially bombastic salesmen. Still, where there's smoke...
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2229 on: April 09, 2017, 08:04:34 am »

Hi Pieter,

remember 2013 chemical attacks? The entire world, media + politicos jumped from their seats, claiming Assas was the one. Obama was short before ordering a strike, and then things changed.

It was the turkish MIT secret service that supplied the Sarin gas to Al Nusra who orchestrated the attack, not Assad. This was a stereotype false flag ops.

Media is quick to paint the picture of the enemy in accordance with politicos, and no one asks the real questions. So we're back at shoot first, then ask questions.

Stupid!




If this was a false flag,  it definitely will happen again just to get America to drop more bombs and help Assad's enemies.  Hopefully we won't take the bait.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2230 on: April 09, 2017, 08:40:10 am »

... So I think the US attack was premature and unjustified and am appalled by all the European leaders backing the attack.
Europe's leaders supported the attack because Trump's bombing went against Russia.   They were worried Trump was too cozy with Putin and would diminish America's roll in NATO.  With the bombing,  they now have confidence that America will continue to defend Europe.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2231 on: April 09, 2017, 08:56:19 am »

Hi Pieter,

remember 2013 chemical attacks? The entire world, media + politicos jumped from their seats, claiming Assas was the one. Obama was short before ordering a strike, and then things changed.

It was the turkish MIT secret service that supplied the Sarin gas to Al Nusra who orchestrated the attack, not Assad. This was a stereotype false flag ops.

Media is quick to paint the picture of the enemy in accordance with politicos, and no one asks the real questions. So we're back at shoot first, then ask questions.

Stupid!
this is a very complicated story and one that the US mainstream press has refused to publish as none of the sources can be documented.  As far as I know, only investigative reporter Seymour Hersh 'uncovered' this.  There were some statements from opposition Turkish MPs who oppose the Erdogan regime and were trying to use this 'information' for political gains.  Sarin and some of the precursor chemicals are all controlled substances under the Chemical Weapons Convention (I served on an US Office of Technology Assessment panel back in the early 1990s that looked into proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction and for those interested the full report is here:  https://www.princeton.edu/~ota/ns20/topic_f.html --- Syria was identified as having a chemical weapons program back then).  Turkey would have to declare manufacturing of methylphophonyl difluoride under the CWC.  I would expect that the US would know this and were Turkey to have violated the CWC, action would be taken.

I suspect that Sarin and/or Sarin precursors were kept by the Syrian army following the 'agreement' several years ago for the country to turn over its stocks of CW agents.  It would not be difficult to do so as there was never a full inventory of which agents and the quantities that they possessed. 

Regardless of whether CW agents were used last week, it is evident that the Assad regime(s) have waged war against the citizens of Syria and brought death and massive dislocations of people.  For this alone they should be condemned.  Whether the US should be involved in this ongoing civil conflict is a political decision not to be taken lightly.  The past track record of US military interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan are not encouraging in this regard.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2232 on: April 09, 2017, 09:03:23 am »

Came across this FB post.

Not unbiased, of course, but then it's not the 6 o'clock news either. The critics see a dark program in place, but I prefer simpler explanations, i.e., incompetence, which is much more widespread, especially bombastic salesmen. Still, where there's smoke...

Indeed, not a resume to be proud of.

Besides all the public displays of incompetence and manipulation, I found no. 55 of her list revealing:
"55. All the while, power continues to consolidate into the hands of Trump, Ivanka and Kushner. In the executive branch, only 4% of key roles are filled and 92% still have no nominee."

Cheers,
Bart
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2233 on: April 09, 2017, 11:15:44 am »

This analyst calls the Tomahawk strikes a sham that potentiates more Russian involvement and escalates the danger to American troops.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/9089/americas-tomahawk-missile-attack-on-syrias-shayrat-air-base-was-a-sham

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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2234 on: April 09, 2017, 11:53:41 am »

This analyst calls the Tomahawk strikes a sham that potentiates more Russian involvement and escalates the danger to American troops.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/9089/americas-tomahawk-missile-attack-on-syrias-shayrat-air-base-was-a-sham


The writer of your article, Tyler Rogoway, is a military analyst.  He focused mainly on the military effectiveness of the bombing or lack there of.  No one cares about that except him although even there it was pretty substantial.   20+ Syrian fighter jets were destroyed.   He basically missed the  powerful political effect it had on enemies and friends around the world in putting America back in the driver's seat as the pre-eminent political and military superpower.  Countries again fear and respect us, something they lost during the Obama administration.  I was even amazed to see on TV 3 or 4 former Obama officials coming out in favor of Trump's bombing.  They even expressed their dissatisfaction that Obama didn't do the same after his red line promise. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2235 on: April 09, 2017, 12:16:35 pm »

Indeed, not a resume to be proud of.

Besides all the public displays of incompetence and manipulation, I found no. 55 of her list revealing:
"55. All the while, power continues to consolidate into the hands of Trump, Ivanka and Kushner. In the executive branch, only 4% of key roles are filled and 92% still have no nominee."

Cheers,
Bart
No one's going to read that list, including #55, except Trump haters.  Only they care.

For the rest of the people, Trump added the ninth justice to the Supreme Court.  His bombing in Iraq changed the world's opinion of him and America's political and military standing.  He assured our NATO and Pacific friends and reminded them to pay up.  He made our enemies more nervous.  He's tightened up the border and begun more control on illegals.  He's begun to reverse overbearing regulations strangling our economy.  He's cut back on climate control spending.  He's produced a partial budget that begins to reduce wasteful spending.  He OKed the two pipelines. He also played 14 rounds of golf and got to sleep with Melania in Mar-a-lago although I don't have the count on that.  Not bad for 2 1/2 months.

Sure, he's had failures like Obamacare and the travel ban.  But he's got 4 years and has plenty of time to correct those issues between golf games. 

LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2236 on: April 09, 2017, 04:16:51 pm »

There is a very real chance that the toxic gases came out from a depot on ground rather than from the air. Apparently it is not too difficult to manufacture Sarin and Mustard gas, and possibly a relatively small container with Sarin was all, it took to kill the innocent people during the recent Syrian air attack.

“A competent chemist could make it, and possibly very quickly, in a matter of days,” says John Gilbert, a senior science fellow at the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation, who spent much of his Air Force career assessing countries’ WMD capabilities. Producing sarin doesn’t require any kind of massive facility; a roughly 200 square foot room would do.

Attackers also don’t require much of it to do serious damage. Gilbert estimates that the Khan Sheikun devastation came from roughly 20 liters of sarin. (Remember: At one point Syria had stockpiled nearly 1,300 tons.)

“It would be possible to obtain, retain, or make relatively small amounts of sarin that would be hard to detect, if somebody really didn’t want them detected by an international organization,” says Gilbert.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2237 on: April 09, 2017, 05:04:45 pm »

There is a very real chance that the toxic gases came out from a depot on ground rather than from the air. Apparently it is not too difficult to manufacture Sarin and Mustard gas, and possibly a relatively small container with Sarin was all, it took to kill the innocent people during the recent Syrian air attack.

“A competent chemist could make it, and possibly very quickly, in a matter of days,” says John Gilbert, a senior science fellow at the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation, who spent much of his Air Force career assessing countries’ WMD capabilities. Producing sarin doesn’t require any kind of massive facility; a roughly 200 square foot room would do.

Attackers also don’t require much of it to do serious damage. Gilbert estimates that the Khan Sheikun devastation came from roughly 20 liters of sarin. (Remember: At one point Syria had stockpiled nearly 1,300 tons.)

“It would be possible to obtain, retain, or make relatively small amounts of sarin that would be hard to detect, if somebody really didn’t want them detected by an international organization,” says Gilbert.

Gilbert's comments are a little misleading.  Yes, the chemistry is straight forward and one of the precursors, isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) is inexpensive and readily available.  the key compound is the methylphosphonyl diflouride which is a controlled substance under the CWC and does require expertise to manufacture (the compounds used to make it are all toxic and one would need specialized equipment to manufacture at volumes high enough to produce Sarin for weapons purposes).  You might be able to produce gram quantities in a laboratory if you had the right compounds but that's not enough to weaponize. 

Sarin is a prohibited substance under the CWC so nobody is shipping it to the Syrians.  They have to make it themselves.  The precursor chemicals are controlled substances and countries are supposed to keep records of their manufacture and transfer if there is any.  It is likely that Syria set up a dedicated chemical facility to make Sarin and that was in violation of the CWC treaty.  Syria is a party to the convention and was supposed to have destroyed all their stockpiles.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2238 on: April 09, 2017, 05:22:29 pm »

I heard phosgene rather than sarin may have been used.   They said first responders most who were unprotected would have been exposed to sarin left on the clothes of victims and many would have died also.   Phosgene chokes which is what it seems the children were doing.   It would be easier to produce.  Not sure it matters.

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2239 on: April 09, 2017, 07:14:54 pm »

This is becoming supremely annoying. Every time when faced with something you don't like, you play the "source" card. I am very careful in using sources. I go to great lengths to provide a different point of view, alternative opinions and, yes, alternative facts. You can't get a different angle if your only source is MSNBC. How on Earth you are going to get a different view from the mainstream media if you do not use sources outside mainstream media!?

So, Eva Bartlett definitely is a source outside "mainstream media!" but I'm pretty sure she has an anti-Canada and anti-Semitic agenda and is NOT unbiased. A quick read of her blog ingaza shows she has an anti-western and anti-mainstream media bias and questionable anti-Zionist perspectives. She claims that it is not Assad who commits the heinous acts against his people but the western backed rebel terrorists that are to blame.

From her interview on her web site:

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With regard to Canada’s role in the war on Syria, it includes imposing criminal and crippling sanctions on Syria; supporting and funding (millions of dollars) the so-called armed ‘opposition’ in Syria and their propagandists; closing Syrian embassies in Canada; demonizing the legitimate Syrian government and Syrian army; and legitimizing the illegitimate, Saudi-backed, so-called ‘Syrian National Council’.

So, she's all for the "legitimate Syrian government" of Bashar al-Assad. Hum, that same Assad that has been accused of war crimes? THE ASSAD FILES – Capturing the top-secret documents that tie the Syrian regime to mass torture and killings.

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The commission’s work recently culminated in a four-hundred-page legal brief that links the systematic torture and murder of tens of thousands of Syrians to a written policy approved by President Bashar al-Assad, coördinated among his security-intelligence agencies, and implemented by regime operatives, who reported the successes of their campaign to their superiors in Damascus. The brief narrates daily events in Syria through the eyes of Assad and his associates and their victims, and offers a record of state-sponsored torture that is almost unimaginable in its scope and its cruelty. Such acts had been reported by survivors in Syria before, but they had never been traced back to signed orders. Stephen Rapp, who led prosecution teams at the international criminal tribunals in Rwanda and Sierra Leone before serving for six years as the United States Ambassador-at-Large for War Crimes Issues, told me that the cija’s documentation “is much richer than anything I’ve seen, and anything I’ve prosecuted in this area.”

The commission mentioned above is the regime-crimes unit of the Commission for International Justice and Accountability, an independent investigative body founded in 2012, in response to the Syrian war.

Now, let's move to RT (formerly Russian Television), here's an interview with Putin that might shed some light Putin talks NSA, Syria, Iran, drones in RT interview (note the video is missing)



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Margarita Simonyan: My first question is a bit immodest – about our channel. What are your impressions of it?

Vladimir Putin: I have good impressions.

When we designed this project back in 2005 we intended introducing another strong player on the world’s scene, a player that wouldn’t just provide an unbiased coverage of the events in Russia but also try, let me stress, I mean – try to break the Anglo-Saxon monopoly on the global information streams. And it seems to me that you’re succeeding in this job.

I’d like to emphasize something of the key importance. We never expected this to be a news agency or a channel which would defend the position of the Russian political line. We wanted to bring an absolutely independent news channel to the news arena.   

Certainly the channel is funded by the government, so it cannot help but reflect the Russian government’s official position on the events in our country and in the rest of the world one way or another. But I’d like to underline again that we never intended this channel, RT, as any kind of apologetics for the Russian political line, whether domestic or foreign.

Hum..."Certainly the channel is funded by the government, so it cannot help but reflect the Russian government’s official position on the events in our country and in the rest of the world one way or another." kinda tells it all right? You lived in Russia Slobodan, do you think RT would last long if it somehow stepped out of Putin's favor?

Julia Ioffe, then a Moscow-based journalist, wrote in 2008 for the Columbia Journalism Review that RT "was conceived as a soft-power tool to improve Russia’s image abroad, to counter the anti-Russian bias the Kremlin saw in the Western media." Ioffe explained, "Russia is still desperately trying to fend off stereotypes of itself—the endemic corruption, the whimsical autocracy of the state—that have kept much foreign capital, and many Russian émigrés, from returning."

Seems to me the term "soft-power tool" kinda goes hand in hand with the term Active measures. You know:

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Active measures (Russian: активные мероприятия) is a Soviet term for the actions of political warfare conducted by the Soviet and Russian security services (Cheka, OGPU, NKVD, KGB, FSB) to influence the course of world events, in addition to collecting intelligence and producing "politically correct" assessment of it. Active measures ranged "from media manipulations to special actions involving various degrees of violence". They were used both abroad and domestically. They included disinformation, propaganda, counterfeiting official documents, assassinations, and political repression, such as penetration into churches, and persecution of political dissidents.

Active measures included the establishment and support of international front organizations (e.g. the World Peace Council); foreign communist, socialist and opposition parties; wars of national liberation in the Third World; and underground, revolutionary, insurgency, criminal, and terrorist groups. The intelligence agencies of Eastern Bloc states also contributed to the program, providing operatives and intelligence for assassinations and other types of covert operations.

Retired KGB Maj. Gen. Oleg Kalugin described active measures as "the heart and soul of Soviet intelligence": "Not intelligence collection, but subversion: active measures to weaken the West, to drive wedges in the Western community alliances of all sorts, particularly NATO, to sow discord among allies, to weaken the United States in the eyes of the people of Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, and thus to prepare ground in case the war really occurs."

Sorry, I know how much you hate Wikipedia Slobodan, but it offered a concise description of active measures.

I'm sorry if you find my posts "supremely annoying", that is not my intent...not really. The reason I questioned your sources is, well, they were very questionable you know?

Truth be told, I STILL don't know what you were going on about...do you agree that Assad is killing his people and guilty of war crimes or is it the western governments that are guilty of funding terrorists and helping ISIL and Al-Qaeda in Syria? Do you honestly think RT and Global Research are viable news sources or are they propaganda arms of Putin's world view?
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