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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918044 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1260 on: March 13, 2017, 11:37:12 am »

As far as I know there is quite a difference between arresting and rounding up troublemakers vs. killing the protestors...

For the record, no protester was killed in the Ferguson riots.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1261 on: March 13, 2017, 11:38:03 am »

Thanks Pieter for you warm regards.  Here name was Lisa Raines; she was a passenger on Flight 77 that was crashed into the Pentagon.  Lisa was a smart, wonderful women and very caring person.  Everyone loved being around her.   My sister, Marilyn, who passed away a couple of years ago, never had a day when she didn't cry about Lisa. 
It is a small world!!!  I worked with Lisa starting way back in the mid-1980s.  We both worked at the same trade association for a while and then moved on to other jobs but stayed in touch.  Her husband, Steve was also a very dear friend of mine. 

Alan
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Rob C

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1262 on: March 13, 2017, 11:45:25 am »

Thanks for making Trump's point better than he makes it.  He and many Americans, myself included, look across the ocean at Europe's Muslim problems, and say that's something we don't want here.  So he issues travel bans, and wants immigration policies that let people in "who want to love America and not be separate from it when they get here."  So why do Europeans so hate Trump?  He's just taking your position.  Yet you attack him when he mentions Sweden when his point is to show all the crime in Muslim areas of Europe.  Europeans who post here should be commending Trump for not wanting to follow the European path.  Instead, all we hear are knee-jerk reactions to Trump hating the very policies he wants to implement to avoid similar problems here. 

Finally, having lost my niece, my sister's only daughter,  to the terrorists on 9-11, I woke up a long time ago and took the cold shower of reality.


"Exactly what we don't want here. But the hypocrisy of Europeans who attack Trump while they beat up Muslims and marginalize them is pretty amazing.  I suppose it's easier for them to point a finger than take responsibility for their own problems."... Alan Klein.

That's not making Trump's point at all: Trump's ìs to ignore the laws of his own land and make it all up on the fly - just like the Turk! Frankly, there's not a huge difference between them except the colour of their hair. Both want to have a dictatorship of their own.

Furthermore, nobody marginalizes them (Islamics): as with so many ethnic/religious groupings they choose to stay within their own tight communities where they live as they please and respect the laws of their own little world and (in their new environment) sub-culture. But don't imagine it's a position reserved for non-whites: take a look around Europe and you find Brits do exactly the same thing: they group and seldom make a friend outwith their own nationality. And much for the same reasons, excluding religion - which most don't really care about anyway, but because they are either too lazy or too stupid to try and learn the language of the new country they decided to call home. Of course, even after living abroad for forty years, some still refer to Britain as 'home'!

The problem with Trumpian politics such as banning entire countries, is that it turns entire countries into foes, and I think it would be quite a stetch to imagine that all those millions of people had felt that way before the attempts to split the world. As for what it does for the people of similar origins (as the banned) now resident and citizens of the US is anybody's guess, but I'd suggest nothing good.

If you want to 'cleanse' a country of troublemakers, good idea, but first let them make the trouble and then hoof the ones who have made it straight out.

Failure to implement the above is one of the reasons that Brexit became so strogly ingrained in some minds: they saw the abuses of British hospitality and the abject failure of governments to act. That the failures to act may have been based on European as against UK law is always a possibility, but it would have made sense for the government to have taken that point up with the Europeans first, not getting into the situation where the UK can easily split up too.

As I said before: it's a mess.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1263 on: March 13, 2017, 12:09:58 pm »

... as with so many ethnic/religious groupings they choose to stay within their own tight communities where they live as they please and respect the laws of their own little world and (in their new environment) sub-culture.... Brits do exactly the same thing: they group and seldom make a friend outwith their own nationality...

Except Brits (and other groupings) do not try to impose "the laws of their own little world" onto others.

Christopher Sanderson

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1264 on: March 13, 2017, 12:30:33 pm »

Except Brits (and other groupings) do not try to impose "the laws of their own little world" onto others.

At least not so far this week... 8)

JNB_Rare

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1265 on: March 13, 2017, 01:02:28 pm »

A somewhat long, but interesting read about the roots of jihadism: Qutb in America


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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1266 on: March 13, 2017, 01:39:17 pm »

It is a small world!!!  I worked with Lisa starting way back in the mid-1980s.  We both worked at the same trade association for a while and then moved on to other jobs but stayed in touch.  Her husband, Steve was also a very dear friend of mine. 

Alan
It is a small world. So glad you were friends. I lost track of Steve. He remarried.  The whole thing was a nightmare.   Something no family should have to go through. Alan.

Rob C

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1267 on: March 13, 2017, 03:41:18 pm »

Except Brits (and other groupings) do not try to impose "the laws of their own little world" onto others.

Really? Try sitting in on an AGM of Property Owners here in Mallorca! They all think Spanish law should be English law, not Scottish law or any other law, but English law.

I've sometimes sat for a coffee with Brits who speak very loudly, complaining about the local ways, and then wonder why the service suddenly deteriorates. I eventually stopped joining anybody in groups. On their own they can be perfectly normal, but in a crowd, quite often it's football time.

But yes, in the stricter sense of your post, you're perfectly right: we don't usually try to impose stuff like sharia. Well, not since the days of Empire, though even there we didn't officially mess much with religion: that was up to the missionaries to play with and feel fulfilled. Problem there was the different denominations of missionary: Baptists, Seventh Day Aventists etc, etc.

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1268 on: March 13, 2017, 05:09:46 pm »

Gotta love this guy huh?

Spicer: Trump didn't mean wiretapping when he tweeted about wiretapping

"(CNN)The White House on Monday walked back a key point of President Donald Trump's unsubstantiated allegation that President Barack Obama wiretapped his phones in Trump Tower during the 2016 election.

Namely, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump wasn't referring to wiretapping when he tweeted about wiretapping.
"I think there's no question that the Obama administration, that there were actions about surveillance and other activities that occurred in the 2016 election," Spicer said. "The President used the word wiretaps in quotes to mean, broadly, surveillance and other activities.""


Ok, so "wire tapping" in quotes doesn't mean wiretapping...but then Kellyanne Conway weighed in...

"Do you know whether Trump Tower was wiretapped?" Bergen County Record columnist Mike Kelly asked Conway on Sunday.

"What I can say is there are many ways to surveil each other," Conway said, before suggesting that surveillance could take place through phones, TVs or "microwaves that turn into cameras."


Well, I never did trust that darn microwave...but that's ok, she appeared on New Day and cleared that up:

Asked to clarify her comments on wiretapping, Conway, one of President Trump's top aides, said she was talking about general news articles on surveillance techniques saying: "I'm not Inspector Gadget. I don't believe people are using the microwave to spy on the Trump campaign."

She shrugged off questions about providing any evidence of foul play that the Trump campaign may have, simply saying: "I'm not in the job of having evidence. That's what investigations are for."


Well, I would never confuse Kellyanne Conway with Inspector Gadget...

Well, the DOJ is on the clock...

Congressional deadline arrives for DOJ evidence on Trump wiretap claims

What do ya wanna bet there is no evidence and Trump was just parroting the Breitbart/Levin conspiracy theory. Mark Levin to Congress: Investigate Obama’s ‘Silent Coup’ vs. Trump

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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1269 on: March 13, 2017, 05:20:23 pm »

I don't think Trump should apologize for the wiretap comment until the Democrats apologize for calling him a traitor for colluding with the Russians to swing the election.  Why is OK to call a current sitting President treasonous but it's not OK to call an ex-President a wire tapper? 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1270 on: March 13, 2017, 05:32:47 pm »

I will give Alan the benefit of the doubt. His posts are designed to stir things up??? :( :-\
Well, without me, Slobodan and a couple of others, there would be no discussion.  Everyone would be talking in an echo chamber.  Stir away. :)

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1271 on: March 13, 2017, 06:12:09 pm »

Well, without me, Slobodan and a couple of others, there would be no discussion.  Everyone would be talking in an echo chamber.  Stir away. :)
Well, if we would listen to you there would be no discussion either, because according to you as Europeans we're not allowed to criticize Trump ;)
But fortunately we aren't listening and I still find following the ping-pong of arguments interesting  8)
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pieter, aka pegelli

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1272 on: March 13, 2017, 06:13:42 pm »

Gotta love this guy huh?

Spicer: Trump didn't mean wiretapping when he tweeted about wiretapping

"(CNN)The White House on Monday walked back a key point of President Donald Trump's unsubstantiated allegation that President Barack Obama wiretapped his phones in Trump Tower during the 2016 election.

Namely, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump wasn't referring to wiretapping when he tweeted about wiretapping.

"I think there's no question that the Obama administration, that there were actions about surveillance and other activities that occurred in the 2016 election," Spicer said. "The President used the word wiretaps in quotes to mean, broadly, surveillance and other activities.""

Well there you have it, so when Trump Tweets about "wires tapped" in one Tweet, and about "wire tapping" in the next Tweet, and 'tapping my Phones' in the next Tweet, and about 'tapp my phones' in the next Tweet, he is not talking about wire tapping /phone tapping.

Makes perfect sense, in a parallel universe other than ours.

The man is a liability.

Cheers,
Bart
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Rob C

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1273 on: March 13, 2017, 06:17:05 pm »

Well, if we would listen to you there would be no discussion either, because according to you as Europeans we're not allowed to criticize Trump ;)
But fortunately we aren't listening and I still find following the ping-pong of arguments interesting  8)

There is no argument, there is even less discussion; what there is is a vicious circle of cant that has already approached the critical speed at which it vanishes up its own ass.

Stand well clear, or at least switch off the fans!

Rob

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1274 on: March 13, 2017, 06:17:10 pm »

I don't think Trump should apologize for the wiretap comment until the Democrats apologize for calling him a traitor for colluding with the Russians to swing the election.

Which Democrats are you referring specificly? Or are you just emulating the big orange one and pulling it out of your ass?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1275 on: March 13, 2017, 06:20:18 pm »

I don't think Trump should apologize for the wiretap comment until the Democrats apologize for calling him a traitor for colluding with the Russians to swing the election.  Why is OK to call a current sitting President treasonous but it's not OK to call an ex-President a wire tapper?

The comment, if there was one, of him colluding with Russians would be a typical hyperbolic political sound bite. The accusation of wiretapping could be uncovered if he simply ordered an investigation.

But this isn't debate anymore, it's now religion. To his followers, he can do no wrong. This is not rational.
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Robert

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1276 on: March 13, 2017, 06:21:29 pm »

I don't think Trump should apologize for the wiretap comment until the Democrats apologize for calling him a traitor for colluding with the Russians to swing the election.  Why is OK to call a current sitting President treasonous but it's not OK to call an ex-President a wire tapper?
We'll draw the conclusions about who needs to apologize to whom after the investigations are concluded. However a president who gets his intelligence from Fox news is bad news for the US, no matter how you look at it. Also the number of people in his entourage who did some shady business with Russia (and Turkey) the past half year or so should raise some eyebrows irrespective if you're a Trump supporter or not. Even if he didn't know about it it still questions his judgement and due diligence capabilities. Maybe the next time the conservatives get together they can change their song from "lock her up" to "lock them up", although I think chances of that are very low since people in general are mostly more gentle on the same political colour vs. the opposite colour.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1277 on: March 13, 2017, 06:29:28 pm »

Which Democrats are you referring specificly? Or are you just emulating the big orange one and pulling it out of your ass?

Long after Clapper and Comey said there was no collusion with Russia of the Trump campaign to swing the election, the Democrats just a week ago had to  walk back their phony charges again.  A sitting Senator Coons, a Democrat, was the latest one accusing Trump of violating Federal law that could get him in jail, impeached, etc.  This was all part of the Democrat plan to delegitimize him.    The Democrats are playing sleaze ball politics with support of the liberal media. 

Here's the Senator's comments regarding his accusation about Trump.  Of course you only read liberal news outlets so you wouldn't know this happened. 

============================== ===========

Sen. Chris Coons, Delaware Democrat, on Sunday (March 5th) walked back his bombshell declaration about transcripts showing Russia-Trump collusion, saying he had no proof such documents exist and apologizing for any “hyperventilating.”

“I have no hard evidence of collusion,” Mr. Coons told “Fox News Sunday.”

He said he was sorry for any misinterpretation of his comments, which blew up on social media after a Friday interview on MSNBC.


“So to the extent of those comments, they might be in some way misinterpreted as leading to sort of a hyperventilating attitude here in the Senate about this, I apologize for that,” Mr. Coons said. “That’s not what I was trying to do.”

At the same time, he said, “I am confident that intelligence exists that is relevant to this question. Not that says there is collusion, and proof of it, that’s not what I was trying to say.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/5/chris-coons-walks-back-talk-of-russia-trump-collus/

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1278 on: March 13, 2017, 06:36:34 pm »

We'll draw the conclusions about who needs to apologize to whom after the investigations are concluded. However a president who gets his intelligence from Fox news is bad news for the US, no matter how you look at it. Also the number of people in his entourage who did some shady business with Russia (and Turkey) the past half year or so should raise some eyebrows irrespective if you're a Trump supporter or not. Even if he didn't know about it it still questions his judgement and due diligence capabilities. Maybe the next time the conservatives get together they can change their song from "lock her up" to "lock them up", although I think chances of that are very low since people in general are mostly more gentle on the same political colour vs. the opposite colour.
  I expect the liberal press to just mention the wiretap and never mention all the Democrat accusations of treason and Russian collusion that will be proven wrong.  They press already knows this truth and have stopped mentioning collusion focusing on the wiretap.  Only Trump haters are fooled. 

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1279 on: March 13, 2017, 06:49:01 pm »

So, where did he call Trump a " traitor" (your word)?
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