Trump II

[LesPalenik]

Hm, the man was born 36 years ago, in what was then known as 'Yugoslavia'. It only effectively became Kosovo since 1999 and on February 17, 2008, the Albanian majority unilaterally declared independence. So the man was born in what is often called 'former Yugoslavia' (because it is officially recognized as Kosovo by 108 of the 193 members of the United Nation).

How is that weaseling? Seems like an accurate description. The man apparently is said to have been running up and down the platform carrying a weapon/ax.

Ah, Islamophobia strikes again?

Kosovo has 3 major religions; Islam, Roman Catholic, and Serbian-orthodox. I have no idea what religion the assailant subscribes to, or if he is practicing any. He did seem to have mental issues, but I'd not call that religiously motivated.
Also, the 93% Albanian majority define their ethnic unity by language, not by religion. The 7% minority, do identify by religious unity. I have no idea from which group the assailant originates, or what motivated his act.

Cheers,
Bart

Bart, in my book, it is a very clear example of weaseling.
If the German papers where this attack took place, can report it factually, why must the American publications alter or obfuscate the facts?

Incidentally, in the nineties, beside Yugoslavia there was another state - Czechoslovakia which was divided into two new entities, and if a citizen of any of those two new states gets nowadays in the news (as a victim or attacker), it is not mentioned as "a person, born in the former Czechoslovakia", but reported accurately and indisputably. For example:

Czech attacked by polar bear

Slovak model found guilty of murder of British millionaire

and that's despite the fact the both actors were actually born in the same state that was formerly known as Czechoslovakia

[James Clark]

The only time it isn't mental health problems is when a white, Western, Christian man attacks a person of color or different heritage or religion.  Then it's racism.  Everyone else gets a pass.  That's PC and fake news.

You've gotta be kidding me. 

[Alan Klein]

You've gotta be kidding me. 

No, I'm not.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Hm, the man was born 36 years ago, in what was then known as 'Yugoslavia'. It only effectively became Kosovo since 1999...

Kosovo has 3 major religions; Islam, Roman Catholic, and Serbian-orthodox. I have no idea what religion the assailant subscribes to, or if he is practicing any....
Also, the 93% Albanian majority define their ethnic unity by language, not by religion. The 7% minority, do identify by religious unity. I have no idea from which group the assailant originates, or what motivated his act.

Bart,

You are obviously an educated and knowledgeable man. You are, however, way out of your depth here.

effectively became Kosovo since 1999

- Say what!? Kosovo was an autonomous region of Yugoslavia since the the WWII. In the 70's, it had its own representative in the collective presidency of Yugoslavia (one of eight, just like Serbia or any other republic), its own constitution, parliament, police, etc.

Kosovo has 3 major religions; Islam, Roman Catholic, and Serbian-orthodox.

Another weaseling formulation. To the uninitiated, this sounds like an equal split, while in reality, it is about 90% Albanian Muslim, 7% Serbian Orthodox, and 3% Albanian Catholic

I have no idea what religion the assailant subscribes to, or if he is practicing any

You are right that you have no idea. But, statistically speaking, what do you think chances are that he is a Muslim? How about 90%? That would be one hell of an educated guess. But wait, there is more. According to the German press, his name is Fatmir H. That is an Albanian name. So, yes, there is about 3% chance that he is a Catholic, and zero chance Serbian Orthodox.

the 93% Albanian majority define their ethnic unity by language, not by religion. The 7% minority, do identify by religious unity

Again, SAY WHAT!? Let me repeat: about 97% of Albanians are Muslims, 3% Catholics.

[Rob C]

This reminds me of the attitudes on so-called unequal stopping, during random police checks, of specific types of teen youth. Well, you'd hardly expect the fuzz to stop kids in school uniforms when there are plenty of mohaws and skinny-nuts standing around in groups, now would you?

Dress the part, you attract the attention.

For a period during the early 80s when we moved out to live here in Spain, the fuzz at Glasgow Airport would invariably stop me during my shuttles for work trips and, on the occasions that my son was along for the ride, he'd be pulled over too. Once, I asked the guy if the jeans and beard had been the attraction; he just smiled. What else? The camera case festooned with Hassy and airport logos, and the shameless exhibitionism of strings of luggage tags hanging off the straps?

(Wonderful times in which to have worked! But thank goodness the Carnaby St. period had passed.)

Frankly, I was happy to be pulled over: it's nice to see the authorities trying to do something to stop drug mules and all the rest of the garbage that travels this world spreading death and misery. And every time, the officers had a good, polite attitude. Maybe that's governed by the way one speaks to them. As with being stopped, it's in the sowing and reaping.

[Alan Goldhammer]

The original reporting came from the German authorities and press, and they are certainly very familiar with what Kosovo is, given how actively they supported KLA. As for Americans, KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) was for years on the State Department terrorist organizations list, so there is that. Several newer cases of terrorism in the USA were guys from Kosovo. As for the "greater western world," most are certainly familiar with the NATO bombing campaign to protect them, and one reason given to the public is that they were persecuted as Muslims. So, yes, many in the western world either know or should know the connection between Kosovo, Muslims, and terrorism.

One source I am sure you trust, The New York Times: "How Kosovo Was Turned Into Fertile Ground for ISIS"

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/world/europe/how-the-saudis-turned-kosovo-into-fertile-ground-for-isis.html

No doubt about this.  However, there are lots of Muslims within the Russian Federation who are kept in line by brutal police state tactics.  At some point that will boil over again.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

No doubt about this.  However, there are lots of Muslims within the Russian Federation who are kept in line by brutal police state tactics.  At some point that will boil over again.

Not sure I follow. What is the Russian role in all of this?

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Not sure I follow. What is the Russian role in all of this?

As relevant as the Muslim role in this thread about Trump?

The Russian interference and the Muslim ban, in case one has forgotten.

Trump's revised travel ban dealt first court setback:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-court-idUSKBN16I02F

And maybe we need to include Turkey as well?
White House says Trump did not know Flynn was representing Turkey
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-flynn-idUSKBN16H2OR

Cheers,
Bart

[JNB_Rare]

One source I am sure you trust, The New York Times: "How Kosovo Was Turned Into Fertile Ground for ISIS"
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/world/europe/how-the-saudis-turned-kosovo-into-fertile-ground-for-isis.html

One wonders why Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and the UAE "get a pass" on their funding of jihadism, while Donald Trump calls Iran the number one terrorist state.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

One wonders why Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and the UAE "get a pass" on their funding of jihadism, while Donald Trump calls Iran the number one terrorist state.

Trump real-estate ...
Oil.
Sales of weapon systems.
Symbol politics.

Take a pick.

Cheers,
Bart

[JNB_Rare]

Trump real-estate ...
Oil.
Sales of weapon systems.
Symbol politics.

Take a pick.

Cheers,
Bart

Yes, it was more of a sad rhetorical statement than a lack of understanding. 

I think the defeat of ISIS and like organizations depends on the will to strangle their funding, just as much as the "ground game". Unfortunately, that will has been, and is being, compromised by an oily expediency. Nothing we haven't seen before in so many ways, and in so many situations.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Trump real-estate ...
Oil.
Sales of weapon systems.
Symbol politics.

Trump has nothing to do with it. It's been a staple of American foreign policy (and geopolitics in general) for decades before him, for Republican and Democrat presidents alike.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Yes, it was more of a sad rhetorical statement than a lack of understanding. 

I know, but not everybody else understands the real issues, large and small.

Like this; Trump's disputes with local governments could create fresh conflicts of interest:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-conflicts-idUSKBN16H0JN

And that's just local issues, not even geo-political ones.

I think the defeat of ISIS and like organizations depends on the will to strangle their funding, just as much as the "ground game". Unfortunately, that will has been, and is being, compromised by an oily expediency. Nothing we haven't seen before in so many ways, and in so many situations.

There are bigger issues on the horizon, and Trump may be willing to let things escalate to unite the people against a common enemy behind a strong leader (in his own mind).

Cheers,
Bart

[scyth]

No doubt about this.  However, there are lots of Muslims within the Russian Federation who are kept in line by brutal police state tactics.  At some point that will boil over again.

actually the only place in Russian Federation where few remaining alive (and local vs departed abroad to fight or blow marathons) radical muslims / ~"lots of Muslims"/ are kept in line (by being promptly killed w/o trial) are certain regions in North Caucasus and there they are kept in line by local genetically fellow brethern who, for quite some time already, are more interested to make money rather than recite Quran and hence successfully aligned themselves with the federals, allowing the latter to outsource the extermination business and extricate the state from from both police and military activities on site... the rest of the country has no chance of anything like this = either well integrated like Tatarstan or thoughtfully decimated like Crimea ... and for the North Caucasus luckily nuclear weapons are keeping dirty American hands away, so there is no chance to get the mess like in Iraq, Syria or Libya there...

[Alan Klein]

Hm, the man was born 36 years ago, in what was then known as 'Yugoslavia'. It only effectively became Kosovo since 1999 and on February 17, 2008, the Albanian majority unilaterally declared independence. So the man was born in what is often called 'former Yugoslavia' (because it is officially recognized as Kosovo by 108 of the 193 members of the United Nation).

How is that weaseling? Seems like an accurate description. The man apparently is said to have been running up and down the platform carrying a weapon/ax.

Ah, Islamophobia strikes again?

Kosovo has 3 major religions; Islam, Roman Catholic, and Serbian-orthodox. I have no idea what religion the assailant subscribes to, or if he is practicing any. He did seem to have mental issues, but I'd not call that religiously motivated.
Also, the 93% Albanian majority define their ethnic unity by language, not by religion. The 7% minority, do identify by religious unity. I have no idea from which group the assailant originates, or what motivated his act.

Cheers,
Bart

Bart:  What's going on with Turkey's Erdogan and their foreign minister?  They called the Dutch premier a Nazi.   It seems the Dutch have more Muslim issues  and more prejudice toward them than America.   Maybe you should focus on your own country's Muslim issues instead of criticizing America and Trump and other countries. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/netherlands-cancels-visit-by-turkish-foreign-minister-in-spiraling-feud-between-europe-and-turkey/2017/03/11/acc2c8ba-0655-11e7-a391-651727e77fc0_story.html?utm_term=.3b1436826f75

[Alan Klein]

It seems the Dutch and many other Europeans are having more troubles with Muslim immigration than America.  Yet the attacks on America and Trump from Europeans here don't stop.  That Europeans are so much more tolerant than America.  Here's another article.  Of course Sweden is not hiding their issues;  Trump is making that all up. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/anti-immigrant-anger-threatens-to-remake-the-liberal-netherlands/2017/03/10/ebdb3a8c-ff4d-11e6-9b78-824ccab94435_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.abaf178e661e

[Rob C]

Bart:  What's going on with Turkey's Erdogan and their foreign minister?  They called the Dutch premier a Nazi.   It seems the Dutch have more Muslim issues  and more prejudice toward them than America.   Maybe you should focus on your own country's Muslim issues instead of criticizing America and Trump and other countries. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/netherlands-cancels-visit-by-turkish-foreign-minister-in-spiraling-feud-between-europe-and-turkey/2017/03/11/acc2c8ba-0655-11e7-a391-651727e77fc0_story.html?utm_term=.3b1436826f75

It's absurd to have any other national coming to your country and having electioneering rights.

Why would anyone with common sense allow that crap? You wanna rabble-rouse, do it at home. Your home.

Rob C

[32BT]

Bart:  What's going on with Turkey's Erdogan and their foreign minister?  They called the Dutch premier a Nazi.   It seems the Dutch have more Muslim issues  and more prejudice toward them than America.   Maybe you should focus on your own country's Muslim issues instead of criticizing America and Trump and other countries. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/netherlands-cancels-visit-by-turkish-foreign-minister-in-spiraling-feud-between-europe-and-turkey/2017/03/11/acc2c8ba-0655-11e7-a391-651727e77fc0_story.html?utm_term=.3b1436826f75

They apparently called for a rally and (pro erdogan) demonstration to be held in the Netherlands after the talk by their minister, something that would be forbidden by international law. Even so, we were negotiating the terms and possibilities of the minister's visit, under safer circumstances, but they decided to unilaterally drop the bomb anyway.

It is not about muslims, we just don't respond well to despotism.

[32BT]

It seems the Dutch and many other Europeans are having more troubles with Muslim immigration than America.  Yet the attacks on America and Trump from Europeans here don't stop.  That Europeans are so much more tolerant than America.  Here's another article.  Of course Sweden is not hiding their issues;  Trump is making that all up. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/anti-immigrant-anger-threatens-to-remake-the-liberal-netherlands/2017/03/10/ebdb3a8c-ff4d-11e6-9b78-824ccab94435_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.abaf178e661e

It's not about Muslims. It's about immigration in general, and the multi-cultural pluralism, even within EU borders. (Same -sentiment- as in US: jobs lost to cheap-labor influx from eastern-european countries for example) There is a sense of lost identity due to an increasingly more influential EU dominance.

So it are in essence the anti-establishment parties that are gaining votes, they just happen to also be anti-immigration, and some of them particularly anti-muslim. But it would be several bridges too far to say all dutch are anti-muslim because they only have limited choice in voting anti-establishment.

Personally I believe the problem in both the US and EU is this: lack of vision.
The choice is either one of 20+ technocratic beancounters that have solid bookkeeping but no vision, or a populist with a vision of a society from a bygone era. The same thing happened in the US. Hillary had her bookkeeping and statistics solidly build in stone, but people are not statistics and they don't like beancounters. So, guess who wins the elections...

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

It's not about Muslims...

Indeed, why would anyone be against that peace-loving, tolerant religion?