Trump II

[Alan Goldhammer]

And 3 hours ago this was published:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-idUSKBN16C0MG

Cheers,
Bart

Yes, it's in the news over here as well.  BTW, did you watch the Groningen/Ajax match today???  I know that is off topic but this is the Coffee Corner!

[Alan Klein]

And 3 hours ago this was published:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-idUSKBN16C0MG

Cheers,
Bart

Thanks.  Your article supports the same basic thing I said in my previous post.  That neither side has any evidence the other side did something wrong.  It's all just political posturing on both sides.    Unfortunately, we're not discussing the real issues that will effect America and the world. 

I just heard that we're going to send ground forces to Syria to challenge ISIS in Raqqa.  That seems to comport with Trump's campaign promise to destroy them.  I just hope that this is not another war we'll get bogged down in.  If ISIS get destroyed, Syrians and other refugees will be able to return home taking a lot of pressure off Europe and elsewhere. Sweden will be safer

[Alan Goldhammer]

  If ISIS get destroyed, Syrians and other refugees will be able to return home taking a lot of pressure off Europe and elsewhere. Sweden will be safer

Most of the refugees were fleeing from Assad and not ISIS.  The land in Syria that ISIS occupy was not heavily populated.  Turkey is upset as that land is likely to become Kurdish.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Yes, it's in the news over here as well.  BTW, did you watch the Groningen/Ajax match today???  I know that is off topic but this is the Coffee Corner!

Hi Alan, no I didn't see the whole match, only fragments.
A good defense helped Groningen to at least gain a point and not let Ajax defeat them.

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Klein]

Most of the refugees were fleeing from Assad and not ISIS.  The land in Syria that ISIS occupy was not heavily populated.  Turkey is upset as that land is likely to become Kurdish.

What I heard was that's why we're going in not the Kurds.  Then the land will be turned back to Syrians.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Hi Alan, no I didn't see the whole match, only fragments.
A good defense helped Groningen to at least gain a point and not let Ajax defeat them.

Cheers,
Bart

I've been an Ajax supporter since the days of Cruyff and try to watch every match.  I've been disappointed by their play over the past three seasons.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Fact: New York man

Alternative fact #1: US citizen

Alternative fact #2: Bosnian Muslim

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-york-man-arrested-for-allegedly-trying-to-join-isis-extremist-groups/

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

And 1 hour ago (The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, asked the Justice Department this weekend to publicly reject President Trump’s assertion that President Barack Obama ordered the tapping of Mr. Trump’s phones):
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/us/politics/trump-seeks-inquiry-into-allegations-that-obama-tapped-his-phones.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0&referer=

Well, the easy way out for Trump is to reveal his source of information (unless it's only an article on Breitbart.com). He accused the 'dishonest media' of not revealing their sources so, if he's a man, he'll reveal his sources for the allegation ...

Cheers,
Bart

P.S. Also on Reuters:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-idUSKBN16C0MG

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Fact: New York man

Alternative fact #1: US citizen

Alternative fact #2: Bosnian Muslim

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-york-man-arrested-for-allegedly-trying-to-join-isis-extremist-groups/

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/kent-shooting-victim-says-he-was-told-go-back-to-your-own-country/

Fact #1: US citizen

Fact #2: Victim is Sikh

Sikh men in particular have reported a rise in verbal abuse and uncomfortable encounters recently, “a kind of prejudice, a kind of xenophobia that is nothing that we’ve seen in the recent past."
 
Cheers,
Bart

[JNB_Rare]

Fact: New York man

Alternative fact #1: US citizen

Alternative fact #2: Bosnian Muslim

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-york-man-arrested-for-allegedly-trying-to-join-isis-extremist-groups/

Not sure of your point, other than that a young man with drug problems and possible mental health issues could be a good target for extremist views. In this case, jihadism, but he doesn't seem a whole lot different than the kind of young recruits that white supremacists ensnare now and then. Not sure where the link to Bosnia is from – he told investigators that be became a Muslim in Montenegro.

Bumbling wannabe jihadist tries to join ISIS in Syria: feds

The fight against ISIS will need to reach much farther than "on the ground" in Syria and Iraq. The organization has extensive funding that needs to be stopped (and who knows where THAT leads) as well as a sophisticated recruitment team and strategy that preys on the psychologically vulnerable. Not an easy task. The rise of extremism is one of the 'unintended consequences' of global connectedness. Individuals with sick and destructive viewpoints find a 'like-minded' community. And individuals who are angry/troubled/questioning are sucked in by recruiters who have been specially trained for the purpose. How much easier is it when someone on the cusp of turning to extremism has his/her fears confirmed by xenophobic rhetoric and actions?

Years ago, there was a book called "Crazy for God" written by a former "Moonie" (member of Reverand Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church). The book detailed the way that members were 'brainwashed'. No wonder: a high-level Church official was a former member of the North Korean secret police. I met the author (accompanied him on an author tour in Toronto). He seemed to have been 'shattered' by his experience. Very scary stuff.

Redzepagic (the jihadist wannabe)

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Not sure where the link to Bosnia is from – he told investigators that be became a Muslim in Montenegro...

That's a Bosnian name, and Montenegro is bordering with Bosnia. Islam expands, you know.

Not sure of your point, other than that a young man with drug problems and possible mental health issues could be a good target for extremist views...

My point is that the media are using weaseling descriptions, like "New York man, "U.S. citizen," without once mentioning that he is a Muslim and immigrant/refugee in the first or second generation. Just as you failed to include that in your list of "predispositions" ("drug problems and possible mental health issues").

P.S. Thanks for posting his picture, glorifying the SOB

[Schewe]

And now he's hiding in the White House...

Sad!

[ChrisMax]

Just a word on the popular vote.  When a president only gets by with an Electoral College victory but loses the popular vote by a huge landslide it matters.  It means the president has no mandate and will receive little support from the opposition party.  His own party will be with him as long as he doesn't become a liability and threaten their chances to be reelected.  Trump is below water in the polls and he is at his limit for his own party to keep supporting him.  The 2018 Congressional Elections are not that far away and in the House of Representatives the popular vote matters.  In the Senate the popular vote matters.  So a president losing the popular vote by the margin that Trump did is a real concern to the Republican Politicians in the Congress.  Although outwardly they may act like it doesn't matter you can bet privately they are very concerned.  As November 2018 draws closer we will begin to see many Republican Congress members begin to distance themselves from Trump and maybe even aggressively oppose him.

[Alan Klein]

None of that stuff matters.  If Trump gets the economy going,  Republicans will benefit in the election. That's why Democrats are trying to slow down his agenda by demanding investigations to sow confusion in Republican ranks.   

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Democrats lost more than 1000 seats, states, federal, governorship, during the Obama era, most of it before Trump. Think about it.

[Farmer]

Yes, and then they lost the WH.  Can you see the trend?

[32BT]

Coincidentally I was reading on the Alan Turing website about Fuzzy logic, when that whole "alternative fact" thing took place.

http://www.alanturing.net/turing_archive/pages/Reference%20Articles/what_is_AI/What%20is%20AI07.html

Some expert systems use fuzzy logic. In standard, non-fuzzy, logic there are only two "truth values", true and false. This is a somewhat unnatural restriction, since we normally think of statements as being nearly true, partly false, truer than certain other statements, and so on.

[32BT]

I really got the impression that right after the elections the democrats started a media offensive amongst other things. And I wondered whether it may have tainted the media coverage in general. Purely as an example the coverage of what became known as "Muslim ban".

Trump clearly stated in his somewhat limited eloquence, that he wanted to stop the inflow of immigrants UNTIL they sorted out how to better filter individuals for terrorism. In other words: you could also call it a "Terrorist ban". 

Big difference in framing.

Then you get the tearjerking stories about a child being held in transit, which may had nothing to do with the ban, but more with having separate passports, which has always been a trigger to stop someone at the border because of child abduction risks.

It's getting increasingly hard to filter the news in general, right-wing or left-wing, for truly independent newsvalue. And that is probably the most dangerous result from all of this. It's one thing to block the newsoutlets from access, it is entirely another to have it flooded with "fake news" or "fuzzy news" from both sides...

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I really got the impression that right after the elections the democrats started a media offensive amongst other things. And I wondered whether it may have tainted the media coverage in general. Purely as an example the coverage of what became known as "Muslim ban".

Trump clearly stated in his somewhat limited eloquence, that he wanted to stop the inflow of immigrants UNTIL they sorted out how to better filter individuals for terrorism. In other words: you could also call it a "Terrorist ban".

Except that it is intended to be a Muslim ban (as Trump promised in his campaign speeches "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States"):
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-ban-rudy-giuliani-how-legally-create-islam-us-immigration-entry-visa-new-york-a7552751.html

Of course it is ineffective, because it doesn't target all Muslims (e.g. SaudiArabia, Egypt, Indonesia, etc. are not included), and not all Muslims are terrorists, and not all terrorists are Muslims. But because it is ineffective (most terrorist acts are by 'Nationals' anyway) doesn't take away from the intent. And that intent makes people less safe, because it helps to radicalize people against the Western cultures.

The new ban 'looks' a bit more legal, e.g. it no longer includes those already vetted with valid visa/greencard, but it still discriminates based on place of birth (instead of place of residence/upbringing, travel route, affiliations, other criteria, that could benefit a relevant risk assessment). But it remains ineffective, it's symbol politics, aimed at a gullible group of supporters.

It's getting increasingly hard to filter the news in general, right-wing or left-wing, for truly independent newsvalue.

That's the whole purpose of spreading Fake news, Alternative facts, it's a tactic of spreading disinformation.

And that is probably the most dangerous result from all of this. It's one thing to block the newsoutlets from access, it is entirely another to have it flooded with "fake news" or "fuzzy news" from both sides...

It so far looks like Trump's 'Alternative reality' machine, AKA Parallel universe, is generating most of the Alternative facts, i.e. fabricated lies. It's partly psychological (Trump believes fabrications that favor him), and a strategy to detract from other issues. Disinformation is a known tactic, it makes less informed people unsure what to believe (even to the point of doubting credible sources) and it take time/resources to debunk, time which cannot be spent (by investigative journalism) on other issues. It makes people indifferent, and less (self-)critical, it promotes information bias, and cognitive dissonance.

It is still not cleared up what caused Trump's accusations of Obama ordering a wiretapping of Trump in his Trump tower. The authorities who should know, deny that such an operation existed and add that such accusations hurt the intelligence community (which is part of Trump's tactics):
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-wiretap-idUSKBN16D21T

Cheers,
Bart

[Otto Phocus]

Just a word on the popular vote.  When a president only gets by with an Electoral College victory but loses the popular vote by a huge landslide it matters.  It means the president has no mandate and will receive little support from the opposition party. 

I am not sure that is valid.

1.  It would depend on what the word Mandate means in this context.  In a political environment where close to 50% of the eligible voters choose not to vote, can any president claim to have a "mandate from the people"?

2.  Winning the Electoral Vote which is intended to represent the majority of votes in the majority of states (as opposed to simply the majority of votes) could be considered a mandate in itself. 

3.  We have had presidents that have won both the Electoral College and the Popular Vote and still received little support from the opposition party. Of course this depends on how one measures "little support".

I am not sure that the popular vote has that much influence on how successful a president is.  The popular vote is a popular venue for complaints (if your guy is the loser) or pride (if your guy wins).  But ultimately, after the election, I think the popular vote numbers really have limited influence.