Trump II

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

No, what I said is that while one can disagree with a leader's means and methods, one can acknowledge that leader's patriotism towards his own people and country.  While one can object to President Truman's use of the A-bomb on Hiroshima to end the war and save American lives as being immoral, those same people can still consider him a patriot.

Thanks, that makes your earlier statement a bit clearer, which was my objective.

Whether we agree or not is not really important. Understanding the points that are made helps to avoid further confusion.

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Klein]

No, it really doesn't, in anything but the very short run. It puts America firmly in the role of Great Satan - of course across the entire Muslim world, and now apparently in Europe, Australia, Mexico, China and counting. If you think the Russians will do anything other than play Trump like a big ugly fish with small fins, you might want to buy a bridge I'm selling.

America's been The Great Satan since the Iranian mullahs overthrew the Shah 40 years ago. Since then, we've spent trillions of dollars and huge pools of American civilian and military blood.  The mess in the Middle East though started by Bush and his predecessors, was unleashed by Obama's weakness when he left Iraq without no American military force to keep the lid on.  The vacuum created was filled by ISIS, Russian arms and expansion, Iranian expansion adventures, Turkish dreams, and millions of Muslim refugees many of whom now occupy Europe trying to establish Sharia law in Berlin and Paris and the rest of the world by blowing themselves up in crowded shopping centers.  We should all pray that Trump does better.   Frankly, our concern should be that he will put American interests at home first and end many of the foreign entanglements President Washington warned us against.  Without America power, all the crazies will come out and test the vacuum with more blood and gore.  Would you prefer Russians or Chinese or Iranians to keep the lid on?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

America's been The Great Satan...

+1 (for the whole post)

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Where is it, how much?

Clever move, get a quotation in US$, wait for the Dollar to devaluate (as a means to decrease the value of the national debt, since the US$ is the fiat currency, the "gold exchange standard" which was established by the Bretton Woods Agreements), then purchase more dollars for less foreign currency. And if the bridge turns out to be a "Fake" bridge, you can pay in Monopoly money which is used to purchase Fake real-estate. Which brings us back to Trump.

When is he going to devaluate the Dollar, to achieve a so-called boosting of the Export of US made cars and other goods.  Any guesses on his treasury plans? Something has to bring in money to pay for all the wondrous plans. The Mexicans alone cannot carry the burden.

Cheers,
Bart

P.S. I just heard that according to unrevealed sources (leaks from worried White House personnel), this morning DJT asked for advice (sounds promising) whether a strong Dollar is beneficial to the USA economy. Fair question (although why?), but instead of asking financial experts, he asked his National Security advisor, who is supposed to have said to ask someone else. This seems to have been in some USA newspapers, but I have not seen any confirmation of that yet.

[scyth]

While one can object to President Truman's use of the A-bomb on Hiroshima to end the war and save American lives as being immoral, those same people can still consider him a patriot. 

yes, of course - but some want to load the word "patriot" with extra "noble" (subjective) meanings... let us scroll back in time... Napoleon and Spain... was Napoleon (even as an emperor) in general a progressive thing coming to Spain of that time ? yet we can agree that Spanish guerrillas led very often by that despicable clergy and cutting French throats were of course patriots... now scroll forward to "liberators" of Iraq

[Alan Klein]

No one should ever confuse patriotism with nobility and morality.  Hitler, Genghis Khan, Mao, Stalin were all patriots.  Nature doesn't honor the best; only the strongest. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

America's been The Great Satan since the Iranian mullahs overthrew the Shah 40 years ago. Since then, we've spent trillions of dollars and huge pools of American civilian and military blood.  The mess in the Middle East though started by Bush and his predecessors, was unleashed by Obama's weakness when he left Iraq without no American military force to keep the lid on.  The vacuum created was filled by ISIS, Russian arms and expansion, Iranian expansion adventures, Turkish dreams, and millions of Muslim refugees many of whom now occupy Europe trying to establish Sharia law in Berlin and Paris and the rest of the world by blowing themselves up in crowded shopping centers.

You should sit down with some good history books so that you get your facts right.  The Middle East was carved up because of an agreement between the British and French during WWI and we are reaping the flaws of drawing boundaries without regard to nationalities.  Read David Fromkin's "A Peace to End All Peace>"  Iraq's chance of staying in one piece was about the same as the Yugoslavia staying stable after Tito's death.  You also might want to look into the history that put the Reza Pahlavi's father in power as result of a CIA sponsored coup back in the early 1950s; that will give you some good understanding of why the mullahs came to power in Iran in 1979.  You also might want to read some history of the Alawite party's control of Syria and how they used inhumane means to keep the population under control until Russia had to come to their aid in the last year.  Things are not always as simple as they appear to be.

[scyth]

The Middle East was carved up because of an agreement between the British and French during WWI

and 1948 ... idea with Madagaskar was better.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Ah, there's some confirmation from different media, although it could always be called Fake news.

Trump is wondering whether a strong US$ is beneficial to the USA, and he called his Security Advisor at 3 AM for guidance (why?), instead of a financial expert:
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/8/14549380/donald-trump-strong-dollar
https://time.com/money/4663767/trump-strong-dollar-versus-weak-currency/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/donald-trump-us-dollar-strong-weak-unsure-best-economy-national-security-adviser-mike-flynn-a7568771.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-called-mike-flynn-about-us-dollar-at-3-am-2017-2?international=true&r=US&IR=T
https://www.businessinsider.nl/fx-currency-market-update-january-17-2017-2017-1/?international=true&r=US
https://www.ft.com/content/56558e7e-b257-11e6-9c37-5787335499a0

Cheers,
Bart

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Ah, Bart, all those articles quote just one source: Huffington Post. How can we not trust such a trusted source?

[Alan Klein]

You should sit down with some good history books so that you get your facts right.  The Middle East was carved up because of an agreement between the British and French during WWI and we are reaping the flaws of drawing boundaries without regard to nationalities.  Read David Fromkin's "A Peace to End All Peace>"  Iraq's chance of staying in one piece was about the same as the Yugoslavia staying stable after Tito's death.  You also might want to look into the history that put the Reza Pahlavi's father in power as result of a CIA sponsored coup back in the early 1950s; that will give you some good understanding of why the mullahs came to power in Iran in 1979.  You also might want to read some history of the Alawite party's control of Syria and how they used inhumane means to keep the population under control until Russia had to come to their aid in the last year.  Things are not always as simple as they appear to be.

All my facts are right.  If you re-read my post I said, "...Bush and his predecessors..."   That included all the events you mentioned, including the installation of the Shah, the earlier creation of false nations by European colonial powers, etc.  I just didn't want to include the earlier history in my post as it would confuse the point I was making.  But your history is appreciated as I'm sure many people aren't aware for it.   

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Ah, Bart, all those articles quote just one source: Huffington Post. How can we not trust such a trusted source?

Hi Slobodan,

Do you have a better source (going to check Breitbart.com myself in a moment), or do you want to label it Fake/Alternative news, or maybe Unnews (have to check the '1984' newspeak dictionary).

Cheers,
Bart

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...I just didn't want to include the earlier history...

It is all Genghis Khan's fault, folks! Or was it Alexander the Great that started it all?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Do you have a better source...

I think, Bart, that the major difference between the HuffPost and the alleged Russian company you described in an earlier post is that Russians are paying their employees

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I think, Bart, that the major difference between the HuffPost and the alleged Russian company you described in an earlier post is that Russians are paying their employees

Well, I guess that a similar thing could have been said by Richard Nixon about the Watergate reports.
BTW, I also do not think the sources of the Huffington post were paid.

Cheers,
Bart

[scyth]

BTW, I also do not think the sources of the Huffington post were paid.

sources or authors ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/author/christina-wilkie , http://www.huffingtonpost.com/author/sv-date ) ?

and why do you think that there were any sources at all    ?

[Schewe]

Jeff, I'm sorry but I just can't engage with anyone who believes that CNN and it's ilk are fair and balanced.

Hum...well, if that's all you got from my post, I kinda think you proved my point. You want to live inside your own echo chamber and see/read only things you believe and agree with...

If you don't think CNN tries to be fair and balanced then you seem to be predisposed to disbelieve what they report. Do you honestly agree with Trump that the mainstream media is engaged in spreading lies and fake news? You say you read newspapers...cool, which ones? Do you read a variety of sources? Do you take a skeptical approach to everything you read?

If you are inclined to believe what Trump and his "Trumpets" say even though they have been proven to be pathological liars, then I question how anybody that supports Trump can honestly defend what he is doing...even the Financial Times (not known as a leftist propaganda mouthpiece) is worried: Truth, lies and the Trump administration Falsehood cannot be the basis for US foreign policy.

Trump's ability to lie over and over and get away with it has contaminated the mainstream media to the point that everybody is being infected with doubt...

The Pew Research Center has a very good article about the The Modern News Consumer – News attitudes and practices in the digital era It's a longish read but at the end you'll see how important it is to hold all media accountable and how important it is to be an educated consumer of news and information to avoid being a part of the problem.

The mainstream media is also struggling when dealing with the insatiable desire for news and information while the value of that news and information continues to go down because of the diffusion of news & info on the web. Tradition news sources like newspapers are struggling with broadcast and all traditional media is struggling with web based media who's credibility and validity is subject to little or no oversight. If you are interested, Pew Research Center provides a lot of data.

Other sources for information about media are Ted.com/media[/url, [url=http://cmpa.gmu.edu]The Center for Media and Public Affairs and Fair.org and MediaMatters.org.

Lies by the media or the politicians should not be accepted as the new normal.

[Schewe]

(have to check the '1984' newspeak dictionary).

Thought you were joking then I found:
1984: Newspeak Dictionary Vocabulary (great for learning Newspeak)
Newspeak From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
THE PRINCIPLES OF NEWSPEAK

Wow...I had no friggin' idea. I'm pretty sure I read 1984 (probably in school I think) but I had no real memory of the story. So...looks like 1984 is gonna be on my reading list. Yeah, I can get it free from Amazon Prime!!!

Or maybe I'll read: 1984-2017: Donald Trump Edition
In this modern remake to the George Orwell classic, author and comedic writer presents "1984-2017: Donald Trump Edition." In this amazing work of political satire, comedian Travis Rosenberg details his escape from an alternate universe in which Facts are Lies and Lies are truth. This startling and timely release shows both the subtle comparisons to the current Trump Presidency to the classic book.

 

[Farmer]

While alternate facts can be misused to represent lies, the concept itself is legitimate.

Example: a glass containing 50% of water (fact #1) can be described as half-full (fact #2) or half-empty (fact #3).

Or for those who prefer a visual explanation, here is the best one:

No.

Taking the image you used, there is only 1 fact - a cylinder.  There are two points of view which result in a circle or a square, but neither are facts.

In your written example, the only fact is a glass with water in it where the volume of water equals half the volume of the glass and the water is in the lower half of the glass.  That's a fact.  Half full or half empty is a point of view.

And therein lies the problem, when people take points of view and call them facts.

If you have two opposing "facts" then either one or both of them are false and not facts.  The one or both that are not facts may be points of view, or they could be mistakes, or they could be miscommunications, or they could be deceptions, and so on.

[Schewe]

Wow...

In unanimous ruling, U.S. appeals court refuses to reinstate Trump travel ban

Then SEE YOU IN COURT, THE SECURITY OF OUR NATION IS AT STAKE!

Yeah, the United States of America is just fine...keep telling yourself that...we're F I N E