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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918411 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #220 on: February 09, 2017, 12:26:52 pm »

surely you prefer to discuss the more convenient propaganda, instead of inconvenient one ... like that evil Putin who does not want to cooperate - here is what cooperation that US means, example = http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/07/the-strategic-suicide-of-aligning-with-russia-in-syria/ =

"In the summer and early fall of 2016, during the negotiations over a potential “Joint Implementation Center” to conduct coordinated targeting against Nusra and the Islamic State, Obama insisted that Moscow enforce a nationwide ceasefire (including in besieged Aleppo) and ensure unfettered humanitarian access across Syria for the United Nations as preconditions. Obama also required that, if and when the Joint Implementation Center was established, Russia commit to following the laws of war, avoid targeting the moderate opposition, ground Assad’s air force over most of the country, provide the United States a veto over Russian counterterrorism targets, and press the Assad regime back into negotiations on a political transition. Ultimately, the Russians proved unable or unwilling to convince Assad (and Iran) to meet these conditions, and the proposal collapsed."

how dare Putin refuse to give US veto over Russia while not being offered the veto over US strikes... he is really not a reliable partner, is he  ;D ... so what exactly Putin was offered that was beneficial for him and not for US ? a single item please ?

so no wonder that Kerry was told to go and f..k himself  8)



The feckless and weak Obama is gone.   No one is going to tell Trump, Tillerson or Mattis to go f..k themselves.  What Liberals, Leftists and Democrats fail to realize is that every time Trump strikes back whether it's about Taiwan or about Nordstrom and his daughter, the leaders of the world check their own  bellicosity toward the US.  They don't want to wind up on the fist end of his small hand.  That advances American interests in the world. 

Because Obama always knocked American values and place in the world, I think Trump and many Americans see Putin as a true patriot for his Russian people as our leader should be for us.  While Trump can disagree with Putins' illegal and immoral methods, he wants to be a true American patriot.  We weren't getting that during the last 8 years.  Make America Great Again wasn't just a neat campaign slogan.  It stirred patriotic feelings in many Americans who felt their own president and the world had lost respect for them and frankly we have lost a lot of respect for ourselves.  Trump was going to return that respect using the tools of trade policy, jobs, a strong military, immigration, tax reform, Obamacare, regulation and others.

scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #221 on: February 09, 2017, 12:27:40 pm »

I was under the distinct impression that this was a thread about Trump.

yes, it is ... about everything related to Trump including him vs prev. presidents regarding their foreign policy in its current, past and future forms
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scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #222 on: February 09, 2017, 12:43:03 pm »

No one is going to tell Trump, Tillerson or Mattis to go f..k themselves.

get some popcorn...

see Putin as a true patriot for his Russian people

Putin vs "opposition" is pretty much like Trump vs Clinton (or others) - it is just a matter which thief is more cunning, make no mistake... we know that either way we are being taken for a ride, but some thiefs (Putin or Trump) still seem more palatable ( even if this just an illusion ) ;D or may be just entertaining at least try to flip the bird (even for a moment).






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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #223 on: February 09, 2017, 12:47:59 pm »

get some popcorn...

Putin vs "opposition" is pretty much like Trump vs Clinton (or others) - it is just a matter which thief is more cunning, make no mistake... we know that either way we are being taken for a ride, but some thiefs (Putin or Trump) still seem more palatable ( even if this just an illusion ) ;D or may be just entertaining at least try to flip the bird (even for a moment).








Trump isn't Putin and America isn't Russia.  The US Constitution has saved the U.S. for over two hundred years.  It saved us from Obama and will save us from Trump.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #224 on: February 09, 2017, 12:52:16 pm »

While Trump can disagree with Putins' illegal and immoral methods, he wants to be a true American patriot.

So 'waterboarding or worse' illegal torture methods are considered patriotic???

Learning something new about the USA each day.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 12:58:11 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #225 on: February 09, 2017, 01:03:02 pm »

So 'waterboarding or worse' illegal torture methods are considered patriotic???

Learning something new about the USA each day.

Cheers,
Bart

Not by all of us, thanks :)
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #226 on: February 09, 2017, 01:15:01 pm »

Not by all of us, thanks :)

Good to learn that some have some sanity left.

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #227 on: February 09, 2017, 01:17:41 pm »

So 'waterboarding or worse' illegal torture methods are considered patriotic???

Learning something new about the USA each day.

Cheers,
Bart

You're conflating two differing things.  Means and methods is not patriotism.

Patriotic: having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one's country.

James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #228 on: February 09, 2017, 01:28:31 pm »

Good to learn that some have some sanity left.

Cheers,
Bart

Honestly, I wouldn't even say *most* of us think this is ok, including many on the right.  While it's disturbing that anyone does, I think it's an unfair characterization to say that Americans in general are in favor of those things.
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scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #229 on: February 09, 2017, 01:42:29 pm »

Trump isn't Putin and America isn't Russia.

I wrote "X vs Y like A vs B"... not "X vs A and Y vs B" like you tried to change it  8)
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scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #230 on: February 09, 2017, 01:47:33 pm »

I think it's an unfair characterization to say that Americans in general are in favor of those things.

CIVILIZATION IS ONLY SKIN DEEP (tm) Sony
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #231 on: February 09, 2017, 01:51:03 pm »

It's interesting for sure, but I think most of what is being published in the news thus far is just banter, on the left and the right.  I think congress is giving them a grace period to complying with the law, on the ethics and business side, since no one there has ever been in politics before. 

It will probably turn out to be an year, then elections campaigns will start setting some republicans straight.  Will Lindsey Graham be the first to take on Trump?  They do hate each other; maybe we will find out his new cell phone number. 
John McCain already has backed down a couple of times so far, most recently today when he backed off his original criticism of the Yemen special ops attack.  I wish I had as much optimism as you do.  Personally, I don't think anyone gets any slack at all if they don't comply with the law, support illegal activities such as civil forfeiture (read George Will's column that came out today on this, truly appalling), or is ethically compromised.

Maybe we haven't seen anyone like him in politics before but we have seen lots of hucksters in American history.  Too bad H.L. Mencken is not alive today, he would have great fun.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #232 on: February 09, 2017, 01:52:40 pm »

I wrote "X vs Y like A vs B"... not "X vs A and Y vs B" like you tried to change it  8)
whatever you say.  http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/Smileys/default/shocked.gif

scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #233 on: February 09, 2017, 01:54:23 pm »

considered patriotic???

Lt. Calley of My Lai fame & then governor Jimmy Carter (a decent person, isn't he - read about his reaction to that verdict)  ;D ... two fine american patriots  :P
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #234 on: February 09, 2017, 01:59:12 pm »

... Maybe I'll spend some time to reacting to the rest of your message after reading it in full. Have to eat dinner first.

Best post so far  ;)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #235 on: February 09, 2017, 02:08:19 pm »

You're conflating two differing things.  Means and methods is not patriotism.

Patriotic: having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one's country.

So what you were saying is that, devotion and vigorous support for one's country (=patriotism) justifies waterboarding for Trump, while he at the same times "disagrees with Putins' illegal and immoral methods"???

I guess that some would say that they disagree, even if after the fact, and without consequences.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 02:20:27 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #236 on: February 09, 2017, 02:19:00 pm »

Best post so far  ;)

Have a nice meal yourself.

I had some nice grilled chicken with a variety of mixed salads and some 'penne' (pasta) and a fine dressing, rounded off with delicious Quark (the dairy product) with coconut and lime for dessert. Now off for some fresh coffee.

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #237 on: February 09, 2017, 02:22:06 pm »

So what you were saying is that, devotion and vigorous support for one's country (=patriotism) justifies waterboarding for Trump, while he at the same times "disagrees with Putins' illegal and immoral methods"???

...

Cheers,
Bart
No, what I said is that while one can disagree with a leader's means and methods, one can acknowledge that leader's patriotism towards his own people and country.  While one can object to President Truman's use of the A-bomb on Hiroshima to end the war and save American lives as being immoral, those same people can still consider him a patriot.      You're just twisting words into your own meanings.  To steal a point I think scythe made: "I wrote "X vs Y like A vs B"... not "X vs A and Y vs B" like you tried to change it  or something like that.  :)

jeremyrh

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #238 on: February 09, 2017, 02:22:21 pm »

The feckless and weak Obama is gone.   No one is going to tell Trump, Tillerson or Mattis to go f..k themselves.  What Liberals, Leftists and Democrats fail to realize is that every time Trump strikes back whether it's about Taiwan or about Nordstrom and his daughter, the leaders of the world check their own  bellicosity toward the US.  They don't want to wind up on the fist end of his small hand.  That advances American interests in the world. 

No, it really doesn't, in anything but the very short run. It puts America firmly in the role of Great Satan - of course across the entire Muslim world, and now apparently in Europe, Australia, Mexico, China and counting. If you think the Russians will do anything other than play Trump like a big ugly fish with small fins, you might want to buy a bridge I'm selling.
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Rob C

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #239 on: February 09, 2017, 02:39:04 pm »

No, it really doesn't, in anything but the very short run. It puts America firmly in the role of Great Satan - of course across the entire Muslim world, and now apparently in Europe, Australia, Mexico, China and counting. If you think the Russians will do anything other than play Trump like a big ugly fish with small fins, you might want to buy a bridge I'm selling.


Where is it, how much?

Rob C
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