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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 917792 times)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #940 on: February 27, 2017, 05:46:30 pm »

Always a good question.

Given that the survey was done by the Wall Street Journal/NBC News, both of which are (still) supposed to be respectable and professional news organizations, one can only assume/hope they know how to make a selection without a (deliberate) bias.

Yes, that's my take on it until proven otherwise. I did wonder about your initial link, and thought that perhaps a lot of information was 'lost in translation' for that publication ("A majority of people in the United States say " without an immediate disclaimer about sample size and methodology). So I decided to wait for the actual survey to become available.

Unfortunately, the potential order of questions and wording of this particular question is actually worse than I had imagined (based on the second link).

news media and other elites” is already strange, and more so after the earlier questions. "And other elites"? I thought, what was the survey about then, the media, which elites, both?? "Exaggerating"? What do they mean? Too much coverage, or inflating the numbers, or ...? "because they are uncomfortable", is it about being uncomfortable? "and threatened", what about uncomfortable but not threatened or vice versa? "kind of change" could mean different things to different respondents. "that Trump represents", he does represent more than change alone, given his locker room talk and the violation claims by multiple women, to name only one aspect of his personality.

And then the length of the multiple interpretable question, was is asked by phone, as a written interview, response cards, in the street?

Strange, strange, strange.

Cheers,
Bart
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Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #941 on: February 27, 2017, 06:05:50 pm »

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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #942 on: February 27, 2017, 11:23:53 pm »

  Didn't the polls conclude that Trump would never win the republican nomination by a long shot? Didn't the polls concur that Hillary had a 89% chance of winning or to put it another way, Trump had only an 11% chance of winning? 

Also remember that the polls didn't reflect the breakdown of the electoral distribution.  They also didn't give much weight to the very people would swing the election for Trump.  So unless the polls are talking to the swing people, the results really have no point.  Who care what the people in California think, for example.  You know they're going to vote Democrat in 2020.  The

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #943 on: February 27, 2017, 11:41:17 pm »

(continued)... The question is what do the swing voters in those states and election districts think?  How has their position changed or remanded the same?  Are the Democrats or Republicans doing anything that's changing who they support?  Are there any polls that analyze these truthfully and accurately? 

Something I noticed in the last few days since Perez became Chairman of the Democrat National Committee.  He, and Schumer and Pelosi have started to speak with new campaign words like "Democrats support workers" and  "More jobs".  They have finally acknowledged by their new political speech,  why they lost even if the media and others are still chasing the Russian "Connection."   The race is on for 2018 to see which party will offer the most to these people.   In the process, the Democrats will try to block any legislation that might help the economy which could give advantage to the Republicans.  Unless Trump and the Republican Congress can help the economy and create jobs, they have a good chance of losing these people back to the Democrats.

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #944 on: February 28, 2017, 12:21:19 am »

It is more about expanding horizons.

Well, my horizons are expanded...in my attempt at finding new and not #FAKE NEWS sources, I've been reading The Moscow Times and low and behold what I find is a story about the next New Yorker cover.

The New Yorker's Latest Magazine Cover Features a Cartoon Putin and a Russian Title. They don't say much about it other than noting the Cyrillic headline.

Interesting times when the Moscow Times is noting The New Yorker cover...

:~)



The actual cover story is, well kinda scary...

TRUMP, PUTIN, AND THE NEW COLD WAR
What lay behind Russia’s interference in the 2016 election—and what lies ahead?

From the article:

Quote
The 2016 Presidential campaign in the United States was of keen interest to Putin. He loathed Obama, who had applied economic sanctions against Putin’s cronies after the annexation of Crimea and the invasion of eastern Ukraine. (Russian state television derided Obama as “weak,” “uncivilized,” and a “eunuch.”) Clinton, in Putin’s view, was worse—the embodiment of the liberal interventionist strain of U.S. foreign policy, more hawkish than Obama, and an obstacle to ending sanctions and reëstablishing Russian geopolitical influence. At the same time, Putin deftly flattered Trump, who was uncommonly positive in his statements about Putin’s strength and effectiveness as a leader. As early as 2007, Trump declared that Putin was “doing a great job in rebuilding the image of Russia and also rebuilding Russia period.”

So, why is it the Trump seems to want to cozy up to Putin? Just a "bromance"? Or is Trump a stooge for Putin and a victim of "active measures"?

Talk almost yourselves for a while. I'm in Florida laying on a beach and soaking the rays (and shooting sunsets, maybe a sunrise).

I'll tune in later in the week, or not :~)
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Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #945 on: February 28, 2017, 12:52:42 am »

The race is on for 2018 to see which party will offer the most to these people.   In the process, the Democrats will try to block any legislation that might help the economy which could give advantage to the Republicans.  Unless Trump and the Republican Congress can help the economy and create jobs, they have a good chance of losing these people back to the Democrats.

Ah, already making excuses, even through the GOP controls both houses.
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Phil Brown

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #946 on: February 28, 2017, 01:02:39 am »

I think Trump respects Putin as a patriot who fights for his country and who wants Russia to be great again.  Much what Trump considers himself to be and what he would like to be seen in America.  Just to be clear, not the despot ways Putin acts. 

Trump thinks that he can trade off on Putin's desires to work with Russia for America's gain.  He may also see Russia as a partner against an expansionist China.  Certainly we can't afford to challenge both Russia and China to keep them at bay.  While Europe may see Russia as the enemy, for America who has major interests in the Pacific as well, China presents a more direct challenge to us in the future. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #947 on: February 28, 2017, 01:09:37 am »

Ah, already making excuses, even through the GOP controls both houses.

Many Republicans are conservative.  They don't like deficit spending and border tax trade policies that Trump wants and could vote against Trump.  Also, the Senate has rules that allow filibusters.    It means that Democrats can block legislation even though the Republicans have a majority.  Additionally, the policies Trump wants to institute may not do anything for jobs.  Or there could be a recession.  Anyone who predicts the future with certainly is a fool.  Didn't we all learn that in the presidential election? 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #948 on: February 28, 2017, 07:56:27 am »

... Interesting times when the Moscow Times is noting The New Yorker cover...

Not really. Ok, the times are interesting, but not because of what the Moscow Times is noting. The MT is a publication established by (American) expats for expats in Moscow, so they cover both countries.

And, to follow Allen's line of reasoning, it is a free publication, distributed in metro stations, restaurants, shops, etc. Which does not mean it is "cheap" or not worthy of a serious consideration. I was a regular reader, back in the 90's.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #949 on: February 28, 2017, 08:32:31 am »

(continued)... The question is what do the swing voters in those states and election districts think?  How has their position changed or remanded the same?  Are the Democrats or Republicans doing anything that's changing who they support?  Are there any polls that analyze these truthfully and accurately? 
There is field reporting by both the Washington Post and the New York times who have been interviewing Trump supporters in the past several weeks to get their take on the President's performance.  Most continue to want to see him have a chance to enact his agenda but there are some that are critical of some of the evolving positions and his erratic behavior.  It is an open question whether the majority of Trump supporters regret their vote and I don't see that the current polarization has shifted much at all.  Until we see legislative changes, there is really no way to judge President Trump's performance.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #950 on: February 28, 2017, 08:34:15 am »

I think Trump respects Putin as a patriot who fights for his country and who wants Russia to be great again.  Much what Trump considers himself to be and what he would like to be seen in America.  Just to be clear, not the despot ways Putin acts. 
I don't think that one can decouple the despot from the patriot and Trump doesn't really understand this.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #951 on: February 28, 2017, 08:48:45 am »

Too funny, our President now thinks that President Obama is behind all the protests that are going on right now. It's an interview up on the only 'truthful' news source, Fox and Friends!!!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #952 on: February 28, 2017, 08:52:25 am »

I don't think that one can decouple the despot from the patriot and Trump doesn't really understand this.

There is a huge difference between the two countries. Submission to authority is almost in Russian genes, given the long history: church, tzar, communists. The U.S. on the other hand, is quite the opposite. Putin has to deal with the (historical) hand he is dealt with; Trump too. Hence their ways about it can not possibly be the same.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #953 on: February 28, 2017, 09:17:29 am »

Too funny, our President now thinks that President Obama is behind all the protests that are going on right now. It's an interview up on the only 'truthful' news source, Fox and Friends!!!

Well, if you have to believe this leaked phone call between Trump and Obama ...

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #954 on: February 28, 2017, 10:00:12 am »

There is field reporting by both the Washington Post and the New York times who have been interviewing Trump supporters in the past several weeks to get their take on the President's performance.  Most continue to want to see him have a chance to enact his agenda but there are some that are critical of some of the evolving positions and his erratic behavior.  It is an open question whether the majority of Trump supporters regret their vote and I don't see that the current polarization has shifted much at all.  Until we see legislative changes, there is really no way to judge President Trump's performance.

Well we finally agree on something.  :)

Rob C

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #955 on: February 28, 2017, 10:03:20 am »

There is a huge difference between the two countries. Submission to authority is almost in Russian genes, given the long history: church, tzar, communists. The U.S. on the other hand, is quite the opposite. Putin has to deal with the (historical) hand he is dealt with; Trump too. Hence their ways about it can not possibly be the same.

You city boys have led a sheltered life.

My boarding school in India was run by US, Canadian and Oz missionaries. Why do you think there's a Bible Belt, and why do you think it has the political influence that it does? Who do you imagine was deported from Britain and parts of broader Europe and started it off? Sects, sects and more disruptive sects.

Dig under the skin, and in my opinion, the US can be as crazy as is the Middle East and swathes of Asia.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #956 on: February 28, 2017, 10:34:40 am »

You city boys have led a sheltered life.

My boarding school in India was run by US, Canadian and Oz missionaries. Why do you think there's a Bible Belt, and why do you think it has the political influence that it does? Who do you imagine was deported from Britain and parts of broader Europe and started it off? Sects, sects and more disruptive sects.

Dig under the skin, and in my opinion, the US can be as crazy as is the Middle East and swathes of Asia.

My brother and I have been saying this for years. We don't see any difference between the batsh*t crazy bible-belters and "radical" islamists, whatever "radical" means anymore.

I recommend Elmer Gantry by Sinclair Lewis.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #957 on: February 28, 2017, 10:44:05 am »

... We don't see any difference between the batsh*t crazy bible-belters and "radical" islamists...

And that's a problem in itself, because the difference us yuuuge.

Petrus

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #958 on: February 28, 2017, 11:06:14 am »

And that's a problem in itself, because the difference us yuuuge.

No kidding there, by far the most terrorist acts in the US since 9/11 have been done by bible-belters...
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #959 on: February 28, 2017, 11:26:05 am »

No kidding there, by far the most terrorist acts in the US since 9/11 have been done by bible-belters...

Any support for that?
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