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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 917804 times)

Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #800 on: February 23, 2017, 02:17:35 pm »

In another report on cyberwarfare from the BBC, something even more pertinent than arithmetic idiocy:

"Unlike in Soviet times, disinformation from Moscow is primarily not selling Russia as an idea...
Instead, it has as one aim undermining the notion of objective truth and reporting being possible at all," ...

Sound familiar? 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39062663
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #801 on: February 23, 2017, 02:47:47 pm »

The inner mathematician in me must ask, which base are you in?   ;)

Well,  I'm sure it's true, somebody handed it to me on a piece of paper.
So it's black on white truth. Saw it with my own eyes.
It's true, really true. Very.

Cheers,
Bart
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Raul_82

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #802 on: February 23, 2017, 02:57:47 pm »

Report today from the BBC - UK - is that Trump is planning to eject immigrants, who have been unemployed in excess of three months, back to the country of their birth. :( :-[

No rest for Schrödinger's Immigrant: Too lazy to work, while simultaneously stealing jobs from americans.  ::)

Joke aside: would you care to provide a link for this? I just don't trust comments on the internet the way I used to.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 03:00:51 pm by Raul_82 »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #803 on: February 23, 2017, 03:22:31 pm »

Report today from the BBC - UK - is that Trump is planning to eject immigrants, who have been unemployed in excess of three months, back to the country of their birth. :( :-[

In fact in the local Dutch news of yesterday it was reported that they apparently want only to eject dangerous criminal immigrants, so they will extend the definition of criminal to include those who ever got a parking ticket or were caught shoplifting.

AFAIK, the last time unemployment was a crime, was under Idi Amin. He used to say that there was no unemployment in Uganda, because it was not allowed ...

The new version of the Muslim ban is apparently postponed to sometime next week.

Obama's Federal guidelines about gender neutral toilets are revoked:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/23/donald-trump-revokes-barack-obama-guidelines-transgender-bathrooms/.

But still no news about the reopening of the coal mines.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-ceos-idUSKBN162209

Trump wants to expand U.S. nuclear arsenal:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-idUSKBN1622IF?il=0

And from the beginning of the month: Reuters says journalists should be prepared to treat US under Trump 'like Iran or Zimbabwe'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-media-dishonest-cnn-new-york-times-concerns-treatment-reuters-iran-turkey-zimbabew-a7557886.html

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 03:56:01 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #804 on: February 23, 2017, 03:29:34 pm »

... would you care to provide a link for this?...

Indeed. Quick googling did not return anything of the sort.

Then again, it's been a rule the last 10-20 years already, that if you are on a work visa and you lose a job, you have a limited amount of time to either find a new job or change your visa status. The time period was typically around 30 or 60 days, after which you are supposed to leave the country.

Chris Kern

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #805 on: February 23, 2017, 03:46:50 pm »

would you care to provide a link for this? I just don't trust comments on the internet the way I used to.

The full texts of Monday's deportation memorandums are available online.  One is a policy implementation memo for the executive orders on immigration enforcement (these were separate from the executive order restricting travel from specified countries that has been blocked by a court injunction) and the other provides guidance to employees of the U.S. immigration agencies within the Department of Homeland Security.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #806 on: February 23, 2017, 03:50:24 pm »

The full texts of Monday's deportation memorandums are available online...

I think we are looking for a different link, the one from BBC and the claims about unemployed immigrants.

Chris Kern

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #807 on: February 23, 2017, 03:55:45 pm »

I think we are looking for a different link, the one from BBC and the claims about unemployed immigrants.

Understood.  I thought some of the viewers of this thread might want to see the actual source of the news reports so they could draw their own conclusions.  Interpreting documents of this kind is a non-trivial exercise.  Many Washington-based reporters for U.S. news organizations find it difficult unless they are specialists who have a legal or immigration beat.  It's even more of a challenge for reporters working for foreign news organizations, even such highly respected ones as the BBC, because they tend to be generalists.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 06:45:37 pm by Chris Kern »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #808 on: February 23, 2017, 04:26:26 pm »

Indeed. Quick googling did not return anything of the sort.

Then again, it's been a rule the last 10-20 years already, that if you are on a work visa and you lose a job, you have a limited amount of time to either find a new job or change your visa status. The time period was typically around 30 or 60 days, after which you are supposed to leave the country.
Correct and I've seen visiting scientists working hard to find another position when their employment (usually a post-doctoral temporary appointment) was set to expire.

EDIT:  These people already have/had jobs and are on the payroll records.  This is a totally different issue.  I think one needs to be careful in the use of language as well.  Visiting scientists have work visas and are really not 'immigrants.'  IMO, immigrant denotes legal status whereas the Trump EOs are concerned with foreigners who are in the US illegally.  They may want to 'immigrate' to America but as we know that is a legal process.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 04:30:54 pm by Alan Goldhammer »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #809 on: February 23, 2017, 08:11:54 pm »

Report today from the BBC - UK - is that Trump is planning to eject immigrants, who have been unemployed in excess of three months, back to the country of their birth. :( :-[

What do they do in Europe if you're on a work visa and lose your job?  Who supports them while they're out of work?  Does the BBC give them a job?

ppmax2

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #810 on: February 23, 2017, 08:44:51 pm »

No rest for Schrödinger's Immigrant: Too lazy to work, while simultaneously stealing jobs from americans.  ::)

Brilliant
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scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #811 on: February 24, 2017, 12:24:34 am »

Indeed. Quick googling did not return anything of the sort.

Then again, it's been a rule the last 10-20 years already, that if you are on a work visa and you lose a job, you have a limited amount of time to either find a new job or change your visa status. The time period was typically around 30 or 60 days, after which you are supposed to leave the country.

as usual the devil is in the details and a lot of it - let us consider for simplicity a non-immigrant visa status like H-1B... if your employer-sponsor fires you, then it technically ("legally") must file a request with USCIS to withdraw its H-1B petition (or it owes you your wages) and you indeed need either to

1)  find a new H-1B visa sponsor which will petition USCIS to extend your visa status (even if withdrawal request was filed and even approved)... this is popuraly known as "/H1/ visa transfer".. or may be your have your I-485 petition (to adjust your non immigrant visa status to a permanent resident) filed already, then you can simply find a new "GC" employer-sponsor ("H1 sponsor" and "GC sponsor" are not the same, they typically are the same company - at least initially, but legally they can be different companies and along the way you can change either, etc, etc) and work on EAD card w/o going back to H-1B visa status...

or

2) leave the country / and within a certain time frame to possibly avoid possible penalties ( like being barred from re-entry, etc, etc ) if you ever attempt to seek some immigrant/non-immigrant visa in the future - but then with both federal laws and internal USCIS / Dept. of State instructions changing a lot all the time this is like a lottery /

or

3) attempt to change your H-1B non-immigrant visa status to some other possible for you non-immigrant visa status (for example H4 if you are married and your spouse has H-1B or go to college)

or

4) attempt to get into some protected status based for example on asylum petition or file a petition to apply for an immigrant status or whatever - point is while your attempt is making rounds within the system you can sit here legally

----

but in real life it is not what happens for H-1B... if your employer-sponsor is a bodyshop (specifically a small time bodyshop vs a big public company, like where I work for last couple of decades) it can stop paying you wages (not legal, yes - but when both sides are interested this stays between them) and not do anything about your petition - they can find you another contract (even like 6 month later) or you can find it yourself on C2C and they can start paying you wages again (even w/o paying you back wages owed - again not legal but with both sides interested this stays between them)... or you can do nothing from above and still find another H1 sponsor (again that probably will be a bodyshop to take case like yours) and once they file a petition for "H1 visa transfer" (yes, they can even knowing for certain that you are out of status, but this is the real life vs the law) you can start working for them right away...

meanwhile USCIS might {A} question the petition by sending RFE for your paystubs (prove that you were in H-1B status = your prev. sponsor paid you) - new sponsor simply answers that no paystubs available and cases goes to options B, C, D listed further - more often D in real life __OR__ {B} /worst case scenario/ simply reject a petition if H-1B petition withdrawal was filed by prev. H-1B sponsor and already approved by USCIS quite some /based on current USCIS instructions about the time frame/ time ago __OR__ {C} petition can be approved with status extension (yes, as it is a decision made by a human in the end) __OR__ {D} petition can be approved w/o extending the status ( then you need to do a round trip and get your H-1B status when you re-enter the country with valid H-1B visa stamp and H-1B petition approval notice... readers shall know that H-1B visa stamp, H-1B petition, H-1B petition approval notice, H-1B visa status /in your I-94/ are 4 different things )... along the way if you are valuable enough /you bring enough money in the house/ for a new sponsor their immigration lawyer can get involved to fight USCIS in case of B and meanwhile you continue to work "legally" / in real life feds are simply not going to court to prove that you and your sponsor conspired to defraud from the very beginning - albeit they can for example use live baits to entrap and so scare even small bodyshops from doing that /
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 12:38:53 am by scyth »
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stamper

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #812 on: February 24, 2017, 04:27:00 am »

No rest for Schrödinger's Immigrant: Too lazy to work, while simultaneously stealing jobs from americans.  ::)

Joke aside: would you care to provide a link for this? I just don't trust comments on the internet the way I used to.

It was a newsreader I heard.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #813 on: February 24, 2017, 05:19:41 am »

What do they do in Europe if you're on a work visa and lose your job?  Who supports them while they're out of work?  Does the BBC give them a job?

That may differ from country to country (European countries/member states do have a certain level of autonomy, I suppose similar to the different states in the USA). In my country, and assuming one wants/needs to stay longer than 90 days in the country, then a visa is not adequate. Staying longer than 90 days (there are some exceptions) requires a combined work and resident's permit. When the employment ends, the permits stops, but one can apply for a permit to seek new employment for a period of one year.

When visa/permits expire, one is supposed to leave the country (actually the Schengen region), but there is usually no Gestapo sent to find you. However, in our organized society, it's hard to live without proper registrations, and outstaying one's welcome without a good reason will 'reduce the possibility' to successfully re-apply for a new visa / work permit / resident's permit, for a prolonged lock-out period (e.g. 5 years). So that may even prohibit any future vacation in any of the Schengen countries (where there is freedom of movement without border checks), or seeking new employment.

People who work (and their employer) will pay taxes, and that will be used to build up social security rights over time. But with rights also come obligations (like actively seeking for a new job, or the money stops), so there is no free lunch.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 11:00:39 am by BartvanderWolf »
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Rob C

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #814 on: February 24, 2017, 09:44:05 am »

Report today from the BBC - UK - is that Trump is planning to eject immigrants, who have been unemployed in excess of three months, back to the country of their birth. :( :-[


That's a hairy one to get into!

I think I shall abstain from comment. Spanish Internet showed a great clip of Lady Mel smiling at Lord T as he looks at her, and her expression turning to disgusted stone a split second after he turns his head away. I must see if I can find it again.

http://informalia.eleconomista.es/informalia/actualidad/noticias/8105041/01/17/Melania-Trump-su-sonrisa-forzada-se-hace-viral.html

Scroll down below the first pair of snaps to the video.

Rob

Obviously, a fine example of it never happened, folks, I'll fix it; it's what I do: fix things...

(Strange thing: for months now, every time I type out things it turns out thongs. I wonder why?)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 09:53:55 am by Rob C »
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Raul_82

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #815 on: February 24, 2017, 09:56:40 am »

Brilliant

Not mine though, but I agree  ;)
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #816 on: February 24, 2017, 11:48:36 am »

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Robert

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #817 on: February 24, 2017, 11:56:54 am »

Looks like some in the fake media realized the danger of losing whatever confidence the public still has in their objectivity and started to take action to restore it:

http://www.robertfeder.com/2017/02/23/abc-7-suspends-mark-giangreco-lunatic-trump-tweet/

Quote
WLS-Channel 7 has slapped sports anchor Mark Giangreco with a multi-week suspension for a tweet in which he called President Donald Trump a “cartoon lunatic” and referred to Trump voters as “simpletons.”

Management of the top-rated ABC-owned station released the following statement Thursday: “Mark Giangreco’s Twitter comments are not in line with ABC 7 Chicago’s non-partisan editorial standards.

 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #818 on: February 24, 2017, 12:08:07 pm »

That may differ from country to country (European countries/member states do have a certain level of autonomy, I suppose similar to the different states in the USA). In my country, and assuming one wants/needs to stay longer than 90 days in the country, then a visa is not adequate. Staying longer than 90 days (there are some exceptions) requires a combined work and resident's permit. When the employment ends, the permits stops, but one can apply for a permit to seek new employment for a period of one year.

When visa/permits expire, one is supposed to leave the country (actually the Schengen region), but there is usually no Gestapo sent to find you. However, in our organized society, it's hard to live without proper registrations, and outstaying one's welcome without a good reason will 'reduce the possibility' to successfully re-apply for a new visa / work permit / resident's permit, for a prolonged lock-out period (e.g. 5 years). So that may even prohibit any future vacation in any of the Schengen countries (where there is freedom of movement without border checks), or seeking new employment.

People who work (and their employer) will pay taxes, and that will be used to build up social security rights over time. But with rights also come obligations (like actively seeking for a new job, or the money stops), so there is no free lunch.

Cheers,
Bart

What we're trying to do here in America is clean up 30 years of government dereliction when they didn't bother to check anyone.  They just let it go because it was economically and politically expedient to allow illegals immigrant to remain, whether they had a job or not.  Frankly, if the economy was great and citizens had great jobs, no one would care even today. Because of the jobs problem though, government is getting tough to respond to political pressure like with Brexit and suppose soon in other European countries like France and Germany.  But we have Immigration cops and Border Patrol police who follow the law, not Gestapo like you have. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #819 on: February 24, 2017, 12:40:29 pm »

... her expression turning to disgusted stone...

No story here, Rob, she just has a "Resting B*tch Face", like many others, myself included (though much uglier).
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