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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 917689 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #780 on: February 23, 2017, 10:29:07 am »

FACT:  Trump received endorsements from just a handful of newspapers.  Many very conservative newspapers endorsed Clinton and a couple Gary Johnson.  One has to separate what appears on the Editorial page versus what appears in the news section. 

If you follow the NY Times,  you'll find that their news section is biased.  I've been reading it for over 50 years and is gotten more biased to the left as the years have passed.    I'm not refering to their editorial section which one can accept to be their political point of view.  The Washington Post is more obviously biased in their news section.  I don't bother reading their editorial section.  Why bother?   You know what they feel reading their news section.


Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #781 on: February 23, 2017, 10:43:01 am »

... you folks are so hopeless: you simply refuse to acknowledge reality and therefore can't engage in a rational debate. At the end of the day all you're able to do is call people names or slap labels on things. It must take extraordinary effort to navigate within a world where down is up and everything you don't agree with is a lie...

I think that is known in psychology as "projection." Like calling everyone you don't agree with "racist, sexist, bigot, xenophobe, etc."

Since you are responding to me, please quote where I called people names?

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #782 on: February 23, 2017, 10:57:14 am »

The problem though Alan, is that we have entered into a era of all news being biased, one way or the other. 

I remember watching a video (long before this past election season) of the dean of journalism at Columbia (I believe) pick apart so-called news stories, on what we would perceive as being un-biased sources, by pointing out how biased they are.  The obvious ones are easy for anyone to point out, but he was looking at clips from "very reliable" sources. 

The subtlety in the diction used was so well hidden that you did not pick up on it, until he started to pointing out words in the story that should not be used.  Words that clearly showed how biased (for or against) the reporter is once you started to think about it. 

It's not just about whether the story is true or false, but also what diction is used.  Is the diction neutral, like true reporting should be, or is it positive or negative? 
I think that pertained to broadcast news IIRC.  There is no doubt that there is some degree of bias in almost anything other than some of the laws of natural science.  If the temperature outside is 70F, that's a fact. 

Let's take an example where there is lots of controversy, global warming.  The evidence says pretty clearly that the earth has been warming in recent years.  It's a fact that the arctic and antarctic are seeing unprecedented degrees of melting (we also have to caveat this as we don't have a complete historical record that would point to something cyclical taking place).  We also know a lot about green house gases and atmospheric photochemistry.  Does this allow one to say that this is exclusively a result of human intervention?  Maybe yes and maybe know.  Some years ago I was doing some research on this for a work related project.  One of the worst greenhouse gases is methane some of which is natural seepage, and a fair amount that is a result of oil drilling and natural gas fracking.  However, often ignored is the large amount that comes from ruminants and the incomplete digestion of foods.  There is a lot more cattle being raised for food today than 100 years ago so one can attribute the increase in the source of methane to humans.

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Basically, he was pointing out how almost all news stories today (or at least what "news" is consumed today) are nothing more then opinion pieces and commentary on what happened, instead just stating what happened like it used to be.  (Or at least was from when Joseph Pulitzer instilled standards into the industry to, I'd say, about 8 or 10 years ago.)
I think in print journalism this is not happening to the degree in broadcast.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #783 on: February 23, 2017, 11:01:42 am »

If you follow the NY Times,  you'll find that their news section is biased.  I've been reading it for over 50 years and is gotten more biased to the left as the years have passed.    I'm not refering to their editorial section which one can accept to be their political point of view.  The Washington Post is more obviously biased in their news section.  I don't bother reading their editorial section.  Why bother?   You know what they feel reading their news section.
The Washington Post has the most balanced set of Op-Ed columnists of any paper in the country.  Kathleen Parker, Michael Gerson, Jennifer Rubin, Charles Krauthamer, Ed Rogers, and a couple of others whose names don't come to me right now are all reliable conservative voices.  Most have been extraordinarily critical of Trump. 

I'm most interested to understand what people perceive to be the bias in print news stories.  Specific examples would be useful.
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Chris Kern

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #784 on: February 23, 2017, 11:08:10 am »

Trump received endorsements from just a handful of newspapers.  Many very conservative newspapers endorsed Clinton and a couple Gary Johnson.  One has to separate what appears on the Editorial page versus what appears in the news section.

As someone who once was guilty of committing journalism, let me add that (at least for those of us in the United States; I don't have sufficient experience with news media in other countries to generalize) it's important to distinguish between the way the traditional print press covers Trump and the way the all-news cable TV channels do.  With a few notable exceptions at the extremes of the political spectrum, almost all of the former have a review process in which editors try to remove any obvious bias from straight news reporting before a piece is published.  In some cases—the New York Times is a notable example—there typically will be multiple levels of editing before a story about government or politics makes it into print.  The need to feed online news sites has truncated this editorial process to some extent by tightening deadline cycles, but even there the requirement for a review by an editor mostly remains intact.

All-news cable TV is a very different kind of medium.  First, the reporter often speaks directly and extemporaneously to the audience, in real-time; other than a quick chat with a director in a central studio, there is no opportunity to review what the reporter is about to say, and no doubt afterwards many of them cringe at the way their words came out.  Even when a report is contained in a video that is produced prior to airtime, the editorial review, such as it is, typically consists of nothing more than a hurried edit by a field producer (basically another reporter who doesn't appear on camera), and these days, given budget constraints that limit the size of television crews, often not even that.  Second, cable TV outlets in this country mostly fill their airtime with commentary by either their own staff members or guests—sometimes paid consultants, sometimes public figures who want the exposure—who are selected to represent particular points-of-view.  These news media function more like the opinion pages of a newspaper than the news columns.

Trump presents a novel problem for everybody in the news business.  He often says things that are probably or demonstrably untrue.  It isn't always clear what his motives are.  Sometimes he appears to be repeating what "somebody" told him.  Sometimes he seems to be conjuring up an example to fit his narrative.  Sometimes he apparently doesn't have any information on a particular subject and blurts out the first random thought that pops into his head.  Occasionally, it sounds as though he is delusional.  And probably sometimes he is lying.  If you're a conscientious reporter, the only easy case is when he says something that might be true but for which he offers no evidence; then you can simply write or say that.  When what he says is obviously false, you're faced with a difficult decision about how to characterize it.  That's where it's very useful to have a second (or third, etc.) pair of eyes and—preferably—enough time prior to deadline to make a considered decision.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 02:12:04 pm by Chris Kern »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #785 on: February 23, 2017, 11:12:19 am »

If you follow the NY Times,  you'll find that their news section is biased.  I've been reading it for over 50 years and is gotten more biased to the left as the years have passed.    I'm not refering to their editorial section which one can accept to be their political point of view.  The Washington Post is more obviously biased in their news section.  I don't bother reading their editorial section.  Why bother?   You know what they feel reading their news section.

So then what, your only source of information becomes Breitbart or Foxnews propaganda?

I don't mind reading opposing biases, and make up my own mind based on multiple sources with facts and well-presented analyses if time permits to read all that.

Cheers,
Bart
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #786 on: February 23, 2017, 11:15:33 am »


I think in print journalism this is not happening to the degree in broadcast.

This is why I added "being consumed."  I think (it was) Dan Rather that said, I try to do the best I can on air, but I wish more people would read newspapers, or something to that effect. 
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #787 on: February 23, 2017, 11:15:43 am »

Meanwhile, more bad news for Trump; new poll finds more people trust the media than trust him.
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2431

Where's Kellyanne Conway, when you need her? I admired her confidence and frankness with which she defended the impossible. Caught too many times on too many Alternative facts, or has she made a career switch to now officially promote Ivanka Trump's fashion line, or was CPAC 2017 more important than the work for the Trump Administration, or  ...?

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #788 on: February 23, 2017, 11:33:15 am »

Where's Kellyanne Conway, when you need her? ...

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/americans-overwhelmingly-say-lives-have-improved-since-kellyanne-conway-went-away?mbid=social_facebook

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According to the poll, Americans have been sleeping more, eating better, and enjoying a markedly greater sense of well-being following Conway’s sudden departure.

“I had lost my zest for life,” Carol Foyler, a poll respondent, said. “Now that Kellyanne Conway is gone, I greet every day with a smile, I feel my energy coming back, and I want to have sex again.”

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #789 on: February 23, 2017, 11:39:23 am »

Neither side is going to change its mind about the bias in news.   What Trump has to do is execute his campaign agenda.   Reduce taxes, improve trade to make it "fairer", secure the borders and correct immigration policies,  strenghthen America's position on the world and it's military,  increase employment and wage levels,    replace Obamacare.  Did i miss anything?  If he does that,  he will be reelected.  The unfair press won't matter.  If there is a recession,  all bets are off.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #790 on: February 23, 2017, 11:42:16 am »

Oh,  install his Supreme Court pick.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #792 on: February 23, 2017, 11:46:35 am »

If there is a recession,  all bets are off.

Too bad, I wanted to bet that he'll blame the media ...

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #793 on: February 23, 2017, 11:49:19 am »

Not so sure he's gonna last. I suspect he'll either resign, get impeached or have a heart attack or stroke and die.

Any of the above works for me...
I was worrying that we won't last.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #794 on: February 23, 2017, 11:54:59 am »

Funny.   I haven't felt hornier.   

About that... have you tried looking at the first lady? I heard it can do all kind of wonders. If it can  "cure gays", I am sure it could do something for straight guys too, instead of testosterone patches or gels.  ;)

http://www.fakenewschecker.com/fake-news/pat-robertson-%E2%80%9Cjust-staring-our-first-lady-can-heal-gays%E2%80%9D

P.S. This post is a lighthearted joke, no intention to offend or direct at anyone in particular

Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #795 on: February 23, 2017, 11:59:55 am »

What Trump has to do is execute his campaign agenda.   Reduce taxes, improve trade to make it "fairer", secure the borders and correct immigration policies,  strenghthen America's position on the world and it's military,  increase employment and wage levels,    replace Obamacare.  Did i miss anything?

Yes. You did forget a few things. In addition to your list, he says he'll increase military expenditure, stop China, repair and rebuild the infrastructure, balance the budget and reduce debt.  That will prove difficult.  Because arithmetic.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 12:04:07 pm by Peter McLennan »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #796 on: February 23, 2017, 12:13:25 pm »

Yes. You did forget a few things. In addition to your list, he says he'll increase military expenditure, stop China, repair and rebuild the infrastructure, balance the budget and reduce debt.  That will prove difficult.  Because arithmetic.

Ah, but that's easy to prove, just use Alternative math: 1+1+1+0 = -3, see, debt is reduced.

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #797 on: February 23, 2017, 12:58:13 pm »

Ah, but that's easy to prove, just use Alternative math: 1+1+1+0 = -3, see, debt is reduced.

Cheers,
Bart
They are already doing this.  They want to use dynamic scoring to assess budget impact so that 3% GDP growth is assumed  to take place because of the tax cuts and regulatory reform.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #798 on: February 23, 2017, 01:15:36 pm »

Ah, but that's easy to prove, just use Alternative math: 1+1+1+0 = -3, see, debt is reduced.

Cheers,
Bart

The inner mathematician in me must ask, which base are you in?   ;)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 01:20:14 pm by JoeKitchen »
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stamper

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #799 on: February 23, 2017, 01:37:20 pm »

Report today from the BBC - UK - is that Trump is planning to eject immigrants, who have been unemployed in excess of three months, back to the country of their birth. :( :-[
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