A7RII and Leica lenses

[rvamos]

Currently I use both a Nikon D800e with many lenses (primes and zooms) and a Leica M240 with 6 different lenses (21mm to 90 mm and most recently a 80-200 Leica R zoom). In terms of image quality, color and contrast, the Leica system has consistently been beating the Nikon system. However, the M240 is a poor performer above ISO 400 and has a few other inconveniences, espcially when it comes to dust gathering on the sensor. So, I'm looking into getting a Sony A7RII as a second body and using my Leica prime lenses, as well as some of the better Nikon zooms. I don't need autofocus, by the way.  I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that has used the A7RII with Leica M lenses - can you give me feedback?  Are the images as sharp as on a M240?  What about color and and contrast - does the Sony sensor and processor preserve that "Leica look"?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I have no experience with the Leica, but I have read a lot of info…

Many of the Leica M-lenses have large beam angles. That makes the lens compact but will cause problems with the sensor. The issues may be threefold:

• Vignetting
• Smearing because of the cover glass causing astigmatism
• Crosstalk

The Leica R-lenses should not have any issues, as they are all built for a camera with a mirror box.

Kolari offers a modified coverglass of similar thickness to the Leica M, that reduces the astigmatism to the same level as the Leica M. The A7rII has a back illuminated sensor and that may have a small benefit regarding vignetting and crosstalk.

Some lenses work well on the A7rII and some don't and it all depends on the beam angle.

Diglloyd may have some good info, and Jim Kasson may have some excellent info.

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=10967

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1392833



Best regards
Erik

Currently I use both a Nikon D800e with many lenses (primes and zooms) and a Leica M240 with 6 different lenses (21mm to 90 mm and most recently a 80-200 Leica R zoom). In terms of image quality, color and contrast, the Leica system has consistently been beating the Nikon system. However, the M240 is a poor performer above ISO 400 and has a few other inconveniences, espcially when it comes to dust gathering on the sensor. So, I'm looking into getting a Sony A7RII as a second body and using my Leica prime lenses, as well as some of the better Nikon zooms. I don't need autofocus, by the way.  I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that has used the A7RII with Leica M lenses - can you give me feedback?  Are the images as sharp as on a M240?  What about color and and contrast - does the Sony sensor and processor preserve that "Leica look"?

[Telecaster]

What Erik wrote. In addition, my own experience with my own LTM & M lenses with both an A7r and an A7rii has been this: disappointing with all focal lengths 50mm and under. The shorter the focal length the greater the disappointment. Now there are lenses I don't own that work well, such as the Wide Angle Tri-Elmar. And my 85, 90 & 135mms work very well. All my R lenses, 24–180mm, work fine too.

-Dave-

[Paul Roark]

+1

75mm and up M lenses are excellent on the Sony a7rii.  The Tri-Elmar 16-18-21 is excellent.  Standard 50mm and less have problems at the edges.  Off axis, ray angle is a critical issue, and it shows up from 50mm down with the Leica M optics. 

There are companies that will put thinner cover glasses over the Sony sensor, making the M glass work much better.  However, modern digital optical design incorporates the characteristics of the cover glass in the lens formula.  As such, a modified Sony will not work well with many of the new, for example, Zeiss lenses made for it.  The Zeiss Loxia 21mm, for example, is outstanding with the OEM cover glass and terrible with the thinner cover glass.  The decrease is edge quality is even obvious with the Sony 55mm f/1.8.  With a thinner cover glass, the 50mm ZM becomes a better lens than the Sony 55mm.

Note that this ray angle issue is not a problem when fitting SLR lenses on the Sony.  I'm only talking about the Leica M optics from 50mm down.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[rvamos]

Thank you for the answers! It seems like my "solution" will not solve many things and that Leica M lenses can only be used by Leica M cameras. Understandable, but it sucks. Or can anyone point me to another camera that accepts the M lenses without having the problems mentioned above? (APS and smaller sensors don't count as I would like to keep the original focal length of the lenses).

[Herbc]

Depends on how picky you are about the edges.  I have no problem with landscape work done with CV 40mm f1.5 M mount lens on A7RII, and the little 24mm f3.8 leica is a favorite of mine on that camera.
As said above, Jim Kasson did an enormous amount of testing for this.
All that said, and of course R lenses work just fine without any issues, AFAIK

[Telecaster]

…I would like to keep the original focal length of the lenses.

Pedant point: I presume you mean "original coverage" as focal length is not camera or sensor dependent.

-Dave-

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

It varies from lens to lens. The classic Leica lenses were made for film and not for digital.

You best option for Leica lenses is probably the Leica M (typ 240) or the SL. Those cameras have a sensor designed for the Leica lenses. That design involves quite a few compromises.

Yo can get a Sony A7xx and replace the cover glass. That helps with some Leica lenses but may not be beneficial with Sony lenses.

Best regards
Erik

Thank you for the answers! It seems like my "solution" will not solve many things and that Leica M lenses can only be used by Leica M cameras. Understandable, but it sucks. Or can anyone point me to another camera that accepts the M lenses without having the problems mentioned above? (APS and smaller sensors don't count as I would like to keep the original focal length of the lenses).

[Dave Gurtcheff]

Over on GetDPI Forum there are a ton of A7RII users, including me. There is an entire "sticky" devoted to what M lenses work, and which do not. The link is here. Good Luck!
Dave in NJ
LINK:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/55652-a7rii-leica-m-lenses.html

[EinstStein]

All M lenses I have have visible difference when working on M9 vs. A7RII.
For 50mm, 35mm, 28mm, and MATE, I see no incentive to use them on A7RII, but if you have no Leica M or SL, that's another story.

[FabienP]

All M lenses I have have visible difference when working on M9 vs. A7RII.
For 50mm, 35mm, 28mm, and MATE, I see no incentive to use them on A7RII, but if you have no Leica M or SL, that's another story.

Feel free to consider your favourite lenses as mates, but you probably meant WATE?

Cheers,

Fabien

[rvamos]

Again, thank you all for your input. I was wanting a body that has higher ISO and more megapixels (though that is not that essential) than the M240.  Seems like I will have to wait for the next iteration of the M (no, I do not want an SL - too expensive and too bulky).

[roscoetuff]

Read Steve Huff's piece on the Leica SL. Sounds like it might be what you're looking for. Tad expensive, but what isn't?

[LocalHero1953]

Feel free to consider your favourite lenses as mates, but you probably meant WATE?

Cheers,

Fabien

Medium Angle TriElmar - 28-35-50 focal lengths. No longer made, but still common. Not to be confused with the WATE.