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Author Topic: Base Characteristics now reads and selects camera ICC profile for DNG's  (Read 1887 times)

Hoggy

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Regardless of how one feels about the DNG religion..

Does the fact that C1 v10 seems to finally read the camera information from DNG-XMP, and selects the corresponding ICC profile for that camera by default....  Now put to bed that anti-DNG argument that 'if one wants better color, best stay with native raw' business?

OK, let the flames begin...   ::)   I'm seriously not trying to start the flames, though.  I just never understood that particular argument - outside of C1 not doing so by default, until now in v10.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Base Characteristics now reads and selects camera ICC profile for DNG's
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2016, 04:34:34 am »

Regardless of how one feels about the DNG religion..

Does the fact that C1 v10 seems to finally read the camera information from DNG-XMP, and selects the corresponding ICC profile for that camera by default....  Now put to bed that anti-DNG argument that 'if one wants better color, best stay with native raw' business?

OK, let the flames begin...   ::)   I'm seriously not trying to start the flames, though.  I just never understood that particular argument - outside of C1 not doing so by default, until now in v10.

Hi,

To avoid flames, just import an Original Camera Raw, and a DNG conversion of that same file. Compare the results (maybe after a few tweaks) side by side. Capture One allows the setting of Color Readouts to make the per pixel differences clearer

To make sure that you compare the same pixel positions, switch off any lens distortion corrections, and make sure that the images have the same size in pixels.

If there are color tweaks that you need to make on the DNG version for your specific camera model, you could even save those as a new profile to use for those DNGs. Other changes, if necessary, could be saved in a User Style so that you can automatically apply those settings upon import of DNGs.

Cheers,
Bart
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Hoggy

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Re: Base Characteristics now reads and selects camera ICC profile for DNG's
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2016, 07:04:45 am »

ok, tested with my Canon PowerShot S100 using the Colorchecker Passport.

(...  Also note that I did a complete fresh import for v10.)


Soooo...  Out of 6 points on 3 cr2/dng combos..  For most values they were exactly the same between dng and CR2.  However some of the values were different by about 1 to 3 points.  Also of note is that, of course, there was no visual difference noticed at all.  I also noted, interestingly, that C1 was using different white balances between the cr2 and dng, with a maxed out tint slider on 2 of the dng's, and an essentially maxed out one on the 3rd one - the cr2's were not maxed out on their tint sliders.


What I don't understand is why there are any differences at all between the 2, if behind the scenes c1v10 is in fact using the same "Canon PowerShot S100 Generic" ICC profile for both..??   ???   (I also made sure "Film Standard" curve was selected for all, rather than Auto.)
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scyth

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Re: Base Characteristics now reads and selects camera ICC profile for DNG's
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2016, 12:03:25 pm »

Now put to bed that anti-DNG argument that 'if one wants better color, best stay with native raw' business?

WB still does not work for A7R2 DNG (converted from ARW with DNG converter released this week with 9.8 ACR) as good (means the same slider positions do not yield the same result and I am too used to adjusting them in UI as they need be with ARW) as it does with .ARW in C1vX... for me that alone is not an option to consider DNG seriously with C1 (not to mention the ultimate = archiving raw files as they were written by camera's firmware and I am too lazy to archive in one format and then to work with a second one).
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Hoggy

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Re: Base Characteristics now reads and selects camera ICC profile for DNG's
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2016, 01:36:55 am »

I still don't understand why there should be any differences at all between a converted DNG and native raw/DNG, if BOTH are using the exact same ICC camera profile (& curve) as shown/chosen under the Base Characteristics tool..

Does anyone know why that might be?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 01:48:33 am by Hoggy »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Base Characteristics now reads and selects camera ICC profile for DNG's
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2016, 06:21:35 am »

I still don't understand why there should be any differences at all between a converted DNG and native raw/DNG, if BOTH are using the exact same ICC camera profile (& curve) as shown/chosen under the Base Characteristics tool..

Does anyone know why that might be?

Hi,

It is apparently caused by a very different Raw processing pipeline. Capture One is ICC-based, DNGs are not. There have been threads about it earlier in this forum.

Cheers,
Bart
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scyth

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Re: Base Characteristics now reads and selects camera ICC profile for DNG's
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 12:38:00 pm »

Hi,

It is apparently caused by a very different Raw processing pipeline. Capture One is ICC-based, DNGs are not. There have been threads about it earlier in this forum.

Cheers,
Bart

nobody prevents a developer (except a political decision) from using raw data and other non color transform related tags from DNG and yet using a native color transform method of C1 based on data in icc/icm container... just like nobody prevents non DNG raws to be used in ACR with "dcp profiles" and C1 with "icc/icm profiles"... what people want is = use DNG and do not use dcp color profiles based color transform (or WB)
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