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Author Topic: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras  (Read 20399 times)

eronald

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2016, 06:43:21 am »

I agree when considering the images strictly as images, as when viewing someone's work with no knowledge of how it came to be. In this case the processes or techniques used to capture/create the still images don't matter. For some folks, though, the process is as important or even more so than the final image.

My modern cameras all have a continuous exposure mode. Press & hold the shutter button and let the frames accumulate. I never use it. This is just personal preference…I'd rather go for "the shot" and either get it or not. My friend Bruce, OTOH, lets 'er rip and then picks his favs later. It's all good.

-Dave-

The newer the camera (for an amateur model) the better it can do bursts, it would seem. These pictures give an idea of what become possible. One can catch micro-expressions. Note that the photographer used an excessively low shutter speed.

http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/10/14/video-rx100-v-shoots-5-5k-video-using-the-high-speed-photo-burst-mode-but-there-are-some-catches/

Edmund
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Rob C

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2016, 06:58:26 am »

It's answered in the earier post: some like to create their images and others have luck do it for them. Whether both are as good as one another is a point I'm not about to debate, because my belief comes sealed with my personal point of view which nothing, in this instance, will shake.

I think that's the common stance, is it not? We are programmed as we are.

Rob

eronald

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2016, 07:48:12 am »

It's answered in the earier post: some like to create their images and others have luck do it for them. Whether both are as good as one another is a point I'm not about to debate, because my belief comes sealed with my personal point of view which nothing, in this instance, will shake.

I think that's the common stance, is it not? We are programmed as we are.

Rob

Rob,

 I don't see bursts as a way to get the same pix, I see them as opening the door to NEW pix. New tools allow us to escape our programming sometimes, just like new friends ;)

 Speaking as both an artist and an engineer, new tech allows one to suddenly realize one could photograph something the mind's eye sees but which one's camera couldn't capture so far - think of bursts as a temporal 500mm telephoto. You may not have had a *need* for such a tele before, if you always shoot wide, but if one is dropped into your hands ... (happened to me kind of). Fast bursts - which we're now going to get- really allow something more, they're new, at least for amateurs.

 BTW, somebody made a cheap really high speed camera, the clips at the bottom are worth watching. This is the equivalent, I guess of a 5000mm :)

http://theslowmotioncameracompany.com


Edmund
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 08:01:30 am by eronald »
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Rob C

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2016, 08:49:18 am »

Rob,

 I don't see bursts as a way to get the same pix, I see them as opening the door to NEW pix. New tools allow us to escape our programming sometimes, just like new friends ;)

 Speaking as both an artist and an engineer, new tech allows one to suddenly realize one could photograph something the mind's eye sees but which one's camera couldn't capture so far - think of bursts as a temporal 500mm telephoto. You may not have had a *need* for such a tele before, if you always shoot wide, but if one is dropped into your hands ... (happened to me kind of). Fast bursts - which we're now going to get- really allow something more, they're new, at least for amateurs.

 BTW, somebody made a cheap really high speed camera, the clips at the bottom are worth watching. This is the equivalent, I guess of a 5000mm :)

http://theslowmotioncameracompany.com


Edmund


I'm sure that you do, but as I say, that's  not my interest: leaving it to chance, for me, mean the Euromillones, and that's expensive enough - just shot up 25% a pop a week or two ago!

Rob

eronald

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2016, 01:54:34 pm »


I'm sure that you do, but as I say, that's  not my interest: leaving it to chance, for me, mean the Euromillones, and that's expensive enough - just shot up 25% a pop a week or two ago!

Rob
There are syndicates who buy up all the tickets
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Rob C

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2016, 02:53:56 pm »

There are syndicates who buy up all the tickets


Not mine, they don't! I have won several cups of coffee!

;-)

Rob

eronald

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2016, 08:44:40 pm »


Not mine, they don't! I have won several cups of coffee!

;-)

Rob

I used to pick up the garbage tickets in Paris, always found a win which bought me coffee.
After the financial crash, never another trash win.

Edmund
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ppmax2

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2016, 09:47:26 pm »

>>some like to create their images and others have luck do it for them.

With due respect, that's condescending and a ridiculous contention ::)

Monkeys haven't yet managed to whack out an Othello...but sure, statistically they could.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

You're essentially arguing the same thing. A tool in the hands of an amateur is just that...

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eronald

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2016, 10:07:43 pm »

Some have monkeys do it for them!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/monkey-selfie-case-animal-photo-copyright

Edmund
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2011051/Black-macaque-takes-self-portrait-Monkey-borrows-photographers-camera.html



>>some like to create their images and others have luck do it for them.

With due respect, that's condescending and a ridiculous contention ::)

Monkeys haven't yet managed to whack out an Othello...but sure, statistically they could.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

You're essentially arguing the same thing. A tool in the hands of an amateur is just that...
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GrahamBy

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2016, 06:27:59 am »

A tool in the hands of an amateur is just that...

A tool?

It can be useful to reflect on the meaning of the word "amateur" before using it as an insult  ;)
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Rob C

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #50 on: October 16, 2016, 06:41:10 am »

>>some like to create their images and others have luck do it for them.

With due respect, that's condescending and a ridiculous contention ::)

Monkeys haven't yet managed to whack out an Othello...but sure, statistically they could.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

You're essentially arguing the same thing. A tool in the hands of an amateur is just that...


Correction: that's experience. I had motor drive with my F2; tried it once and gave up: I'd lost control. I got better, intended results by directing and also letting the model do her thing and being able to spot what was good.

Hosing a machine is hosing a machine. There are bound to be instances where a hosepipe technique is the best - possibly the only way to fly, but it never touched my life: I didn't do high-speed anything.

I prefer considered photography. Just me.

Rob

eronald

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #51 on: October 16, 2016, 07:09:19 pm »

We're seeing different perspectives here. I think Rob sees himself as a descendant of the old-style portrait artist, who built up a relationship with his "sitter", while creating the "pose". The sitter is well aware of the image rendered, the image is not just "caught" by the painter, but uniquely crafted as a collaboration. In a way this is not true of continuous capture where the talent is directed and "throws"a sequence of movements and expressions up in the air and the photographer later "catches" the moment while sitting in front of the cutting room monitor, just as he could choose to catch one card of a pack thrown by a stage magician.

It's late, those pix J posted are interesting. We should all post more pix.

My own pix above are "amateur" pictures, posted and retouched for fun not for hire, but they are extracted from a video job I did, where I did the lighting and directing and some of the cinematography. It's interesting how the labels flip from one side to the other - the outtakes from the pro time-constrained pressure cooker becomes  art. Maybe that is why collectors love original movie set and movie marketing pictures.

Edmund

I think people confuse high frame rates as not crafting an image.  Spray and pray, no, it's craft the image first then capture it the way you want.

All our work turns into multimedia.  Sometimes for effect, sometimes for cut frame video, sometimes because there is that milisecond where the subjects just do something unexpected.   How many times have you shot an image with a slow camera and then while rewinding or waiting to buffer, the subject(s) just do something amazing and you push the button and no go?

I'm not saying to shoot a staged portrait that doesn't have much movement at 15 fps, but short bursts can open a world of looks you just wouldn't capture any other way.

I'm also not saying to not aim for the decisive moment, or shoot without a plan or style.  I'm just saying don't limit yourself to that single frame when you photograph living breathing subjects.

We do a lot of multimedia work like this that goes for print, web, stills, motion, cut frame motion, sequential stills, mixed with cinema camera motion.

This isn't a final edit, just and overview but it works and it isn't spray and play.

All of the still imagery is with a 1dx, shot in bursts, processed in lightroom and only a few images ever went into photoshop, I just set a preset, a crop and let it go.

But to think it's not crafted is not the plan and I'm not praying we got it.  I'm usually pretty sure we got it.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 10:16:49 pm by Chris Sanderson »
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ppmax2

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2016, 01:15:26 am »

A tool?

It can be useful to reflect on the meaning of the word "amateur" before using it as an insult  ;)

A camera is a tool.

An amateur is an "unskilled person" (not an unpaid skilled person in this instance).

There is no implied or explicit insult ;)


Quote
Hosing a machine is hosing a machine. There are bound to be instances where a hosepipe technique is the best - possibly the only way to fly, but it never touched my life: I didn't do high-speed anything.

I prefer considered photography. Just me.

High frame-rate cameras (or video cameras for that matter) don't magically imbue their beholders with the skill, artistic vision, or any of the other characteristics required to make beautiful images or...art. "Considered photography" has nothing to do with the technical capabilities of a camera.

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Rob C

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2016, 05:04:48 am »

We're seeing different perspectives here. I think Rob sees himself as a descendant of the old-style portrait artist, who built up a relationship with his "sitter", while creating the "pose". The sitter is well aware of the image rendered, the image is not just "caught" by the painter, but uniquely crafted as a collaboration. In a way this is not true of continuous capture where the talent is directed and "throws"a sequence of movements and expressions up in the air and the photographer later "catches" the moment while sitting in front of the cutting room monitor, just as he could choose to catch one card of a pack thrown by a stage magician.

It's late, those pix J posted are interesting. We should all post more pix.

Edmund


Yes, that's pretty much how I do see it: sitter and snapper both collaborate to produce what the snapper wants, even if snapper pretends to do it to provide what sitter wants.

But that's not entirely the same situation that I think you are describing: directing to make a few seconds of a film take is not the same as using a motor drive in the hope of catching a single good frame. Motion is all about continuity of - well, motion; the intention isn't usually to freeze the thing at one frame, as with motor-driven stills photography.

I know pretty much zero about motion beyond how I perceive and feel movies/videos that I watch. Maybe I'm right, and then maybe I'm not.

Rob

Rob C

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2016, 06:15:30 am »


It's late, those pix J posted are interesting. We should all post more pix.

Edmund

It's close to going-for-lunch time; this is what I'd like to be doing these days with a human, rather than calendar shots.





And believe it or not, even that's getting hard to do: many window humanoids are now headless or wiggless. It's a plot, I tell you! They are really here!

Rob

Telecaster

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #55 on: October 17, 2016, 02:59:26 pm »

It's a plot, I tell you! They are really here!

The very first episode of the revived Doctor Who features Autons:D

-Dave-
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Rob C

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #56 on: October 17, 2016, 05:20:55 pm »

The very first episode of the revived Doctor Who features Autons:D

-Dave-

My kids used to watch that stuff... I gather that the Daleks were the most scary, which goes to show you that a large shuttlecock is perhaps not a friendly thing. Especially with a drain plunger sticking out of its - well, face? - and also shows that it didn't require immense digital complexity to incite or create the effect the producers wanted; juvenile fear was quite capable of growing up from and around anything that was presented as scary. I think there must a marketing lesson lurking somewhere therein, but I can't find it!

Rob

eronald

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2016, 08:59:31 pm »

My kids used to watch that stuff... I gather that the Daleks were the most scary, which goes to show you that a large shuttlecock is perhaps not a friendly thing. Especially with a drain plunger sticking out of its - well, face? - and also shows that it didn't require immense digital complexity to incite or create the effect the producers wanted; juvenile fear was quite capable of growing up from and around anything that was presented as scary. I think there must a marketing lesson lurking somewhere therein, but I can't find it!

Rob

Number Six scary?
I kind of enjoy the idea of running into "it" in the dark :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_Six_(Battlestar_Galactica)#/media/File:Number_Six_Tricia_Helfer.jpg
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 12:25:03 am by eronald »
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bcooter

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2016, 10:38:46 pm »

Number Six scary?
I kind of enjoy the idea of running into "it" in the dark :)


Be careful about copyright law if you moved it.  It's becoming very serious lately and not for you but for this forum.

Permission is king.
Thanks

BC
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 07:54:49 am by bcooter »
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eronald

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Re: With Red 8K Raw, movie recording surpasses most still cameras
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2016, 12:21:47 am »

J,

 I just saw that you were complaining about the wikipedia image and not my own - you're right, I checked the site, and disembedded the link. People can still click on it, but it now clearly shows where it is linking to.

 For a while I thought you were accusing me of not shooting the dance picture myself. I would request that if there is an issue you want to draw my attention to in the future you simply send me a PM if you're feeling nice, or just contact the mods directly if your mood is dark.

Edmund
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 12:42:24 am by eronald »
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