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Author Topic: Canon 5D Mk4 announced  (Read 26813 times)

BobShaw

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Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« on: August 25, 2016, 01:12:31 am »

Canon EOS 5D Mark IV - Body Only or 24-70 f2.8
30.4 Megapixel Full Frame CMOS Sensor with Dual Pixel RAW
DIGIC 6+ Image Processor
7 FPS Burst Mode Shooting
4K Video Recording 24, 25 and 30fps
61-Point Autofocus with 41 Cross-type Points
3.2 Touchscreen LCD Monitor
Dust and Weather Sealed Construction
Dual SD and CF Memory Cards Slots
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2016, 01:49:29 am »

I'm surprised there wasn't more interest here when the really solid rumours came out over the last few weeks.

It looks like a significant step up from the 5D3, and a really solid body for anyone who doesn't need super high resolution and shoots moving subjects.

Sure, it looks incremental on spec alone. But it's all in the detail:

- Canon's made a big leap in DR over their previous-generation sensors. I would expect this to outperform even the 1Dx2 in whole-image DR, perhaps by as much as half a stop. Certainly not class-leading, but it closes the gap significantly and makes the DR gap less of a deal-breaker.
- Dual-pixel RAW. This allows some refocusing during RAW conversion, after the image has been taken. This is huge! How many compositionally-great shots have been ruined because the camera focused on an eyelash rather than on the subject's eye, or focused on the ear or snout rather than the eye of an animal? It also allows for mitigation of diffraction effects.

Needless to say, it looks pretty good for wedding and event photographers. Depending on how effective post-exposure refocusing turns out to be, this could also be great for photojournalism and wildlife photography.

I want to see what Sony manages to bring out in the A9. Even the A7r2 never misses a (human) eye...
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 02:24:18 am by shadowblade »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2016, 02:10:36 am »

- Dual-pixel RAW. This allows some refocusing during RAW conversion, after the image has been taken. This is huge! How many compositionally-great shots have been ruined because the camera focused on an eyelash rather than on the subject's eye, or focused on the ear or snout rather than the eye of an animal? It also allows for mitigation of diffraction effects.

Needless to say, it looks pretty good for wedding and event photographers. Depending on how effective post-exposure refocusing turns out to be, this could also be great for photojournalism and wildlife photography.

This is interesting and Canon has managed to generate a tiny bit of GAS in me with this innovation for the first time in years! ;) It remains to be seen what degree of re-focusing is possible considering that the 2 "sensors" are extremely close to each others.

Now, is this capability going to be available in raw converters other than CPP? It seems a bit doubtful and if it is CPP only, would this not cause problems with lack of color consistency if you need to process in CPP a sub-set of your images where "re-focusing" is needed and the bulk in your raw converter of choice?

Overall the 5Dmkiv sounds like a solid upgrade.

Cheers,
Bernard

shadowblade

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2016, 02:25:28 am »

If only they'd upgrade the 5Ds with the same technology.

Out of all Canon cameras, that's probably the one which could have most used the increased DR and dual-pixel technology. But it was the last full-frame camera released without it.
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Rhossydd

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2016, 02:43:30 am »

It remains to be seen what degree of re-focusing is possible
From the preview article on DPR https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-first-impressions-review it's sounding like a very subtle option. I'd guess it will only be of use to a minority of users shooting very low DoF work.
Quote
is this capability going to be available in raw converters other than CPP?
The other question is not just will the capability be available, but will the big files will be usable at all ?

Then there's the question of do you want the, probably very minor, benefits the format offers at the price of double the amount of data to store and manipulate ?

Another interesting question this asks is will there be a way of choosing which of the two viewpoints you want, then extracting that RAW file from the big file ? I doubt that will be an immediate option, but maybe one for some independent software authors.

We'll have to wait for the answers.

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shadowblade

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2016, 03:41:13 am »

From the preview article on DPR https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-first-impressions-review it's sounding like a very subtle option. I'd guess it will only be of use to a minority of users shooting very low DoF work.

That's often all it needs.

The ones where you look at the thumbnail or the 12.5% zoom and think, 'Great shot', only to zoom in to 100% and think, 'D'oh! It focused on the eyelash/snout/ears'. That actually works out to a fair number of shots.

It can compensate for mechanical/electronic error, not human error. It's not designed to save the ones where you should have focused on a completely different subject. But those aren't usually the shots you really want to save, anyway.
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Rhossydd

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2016, 03:48:39 am »

That's often all it needs.
If this is just an either or, it still might not move in the correct direction anyway. We'll have to wait and see how it's implemented in practice.
Quote
That actually works out to a fair number of shots.
Maybe for you, for many others it's simply not an issue in the first place.
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David Anderson

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2016, 04:35:02 am »

Looks good, but I wonder will it have auto micro AF adjustment like the new Nikons ?

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Hywel

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2016, 07:20:19 am »

I'll just add that having used a friend's 1DX2 on a shoot last week, the latest iteration Canon PDAF using liveview/touch screen is absolutely epic.

I was doing continuous autofocus on a moving subject with a 70-200 mm lens, locking onto her face in an instant when I tapped the screen, and keeping it in focus as she moved around the frame, only starting to hunt when she left frame.

And being PDAF using the image sensor, there's no need for AF microadjustment- and back or front focus issues with lenses goes away, because it is focussing on the actual image plane in real time.

It was better than me with a follow focus rig, for sure. And it is useable in stills mode using live view.

I gather the 5D Mark IV has the same tech. With that plus Canon skin tones and promised improved dynamic range, I'll be checking it out.

5D cameras are always great all-rounders.

Cheers, Hywel
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2016, 08:24:55 am »

Maybe for you, for many others it's simply not an issue in the first place.

So, what's your magic formula for making an AF system lock onto the exact feature you want?

The AF picks a feature within the AF point you've chosen, and that's not always going to be the eye.
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Rhossydd

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2016, 08:55:11 am »

So, what's your magic formula for making an AF system lock onto the exact feature you want?
I mainly photograph static objects. Luminous LANDSCAPE
But even for people shots I've never really had big problems. Just shoot at a sensible aperture and make sure the AF micro setting is correct.
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scyth

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2016, 09:54:26 am »

Now, is this capability going to be available in raw converters

Adobe needs to update DNG spec first...
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eronald

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2016, 11:34:02 am »

The HDR compressed video is interesting - I wonder whether it can do non-tone-mapped HDR video.

Edmund
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uaiomex

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2016, 01:33:30 pm »

The "Wedding Speciale"
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2016, 01:43:29 pm »

The HDR compressed video is interesting - I wonder whether it can do non-tone-mapped HDR video.

Edmund

Every digital image you've ever seen - whether made from one exposure or multiple exposures - has been tone-mapped. So, no.

Ever seen an image processed with a flat response curve? (even a flat line is a tone-mapping curve of sorts). It looks awful - most of the image appears black. That's because the human eye doesn't have a flat response curve either. A tone mapping curve is a vital component in converting sensor data into an image. It's not the sole preserve of HDR images.

Bad tone mapping curves and excessive local contrast enhancement (usually with excessive radius)? That's what gives HDR a bad name, but is just as easily applied to single exposures.
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adias

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2016, 01:43:44 pm »

I'm surprised there wasn't more interest here when the really solid rumours came out over the last few weeks.

LuLa has camera cliques and EOS does not have one here now. The current ones are the elite Leica/Hassy/P1 crowds and the geriatric Sony mirrorless crowd. :)
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2016, 03:32:50 am »

LuLa has camera cliques and EOS does not have one here now. The current ones are the elite Leica/Hassy/P1 crowds and the geriatric Sony mirrorless crowd. :)

I thought all the octogenarians were still using Leica film rangefinders, not Sony mirrorless...

I don't understand the cliques. Prefer to use whatever works best for the situation. Right now, that means A7r2, Zeiss/Canon/Leica/Sigma lenses and stitching for landscapes/non-action, and Canon bodies/lenses for things that move. And the most useful thing anyone could bring out wouldn't be a body or a lens, but a drone/gimbal combination stable enough for a multi-second exposure while hovering.
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Rhossydd

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2016, 04:39:30 am »

And the most useful thing anyone could bring out wouldn't be a body or a lens, but a drone/gimbal combination stable enough for a multi-second exposure while hovering.
Only for a few hundred people in the world. Niche within a niche.

Most would just like to see prices drop significantly.
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2016, 08:02:31 am »

Only for a few hundred people in the world. Niche within a niche.

Nope - they'd sell millions of stripped-down versions to people using them to shoot selfies and group shots from longer-than-stick range.

Cue the full-sized version for landscape and architectural photographers wanting to shoot from a vantage point other than ground level on solid ground.
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DaveCurtis

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2016, 08:53:08 pm »

Yes, looks like a solid update. A nice improvement an existing workhorse. A jack of all trades!

One always wishes for more but you kind of know that what you are getting is an incremental improvement. The dual pixel processing was a surprise.

I currently own the 5D3 and A7R2. The improved 5D4 sensor will be welcomed.

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