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Author Topic: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy  (Read 7145 times)

muntanela

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2016, 05:37:59 am »



a tripod will be somewhere between very awkward and unacceptable (unless you have an assistant/fixer) in many urban situations and a complete non-starter if you're on a group tour

In Italy some local administrations ( many or few?  It depends... Which one, nobody knows with certainty) charge a tax for the occupation of public ground with a tripod.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 05:43:00 am by muntanela »
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Ray R

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2016, 11:14:57 am »

I was reading this article the other day
https://luminous-landscape.com/focusing-tilt-shift-lenses/

although some years old, may be helpful.

Ray
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dwswager

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2016, 09:00:15 pm »

Thanks to all! 

I know what focal length I need once I see the situation, but having never been to Italy I am ignorant of how close I can get to things.  When I was in Spain, the 85mm PC-E would have been helpful even shooting some locations where I probably should not have been.

I appreciate the discussion on whether to have a Nikon reoriented.  Because I have little experience shooting with tilts, shifts, swings and crosses.  I guess it would be great if it could be adjusted on the fly.  Maybe the rumored 19mm PC-E would fix that.  Feel free to add your comments on whether it is better to have them in the same plane or opposing.  This is one area I really need to consider.

I hate spending money, but I can afford the Nikon 24mm PC-E.

I almost always shoot from a tripod as I like to do long exposures (minutes not hours) and night scenes in addition twilight and sunrise/sunset.

Considering I humped Nikon 200-500mm around Spain, I think trading it for a 24 T/S is a good deal.

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dwswager

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2016, 08:42:08 am »

I agree with Alan, and would like to add an alternative, use a slightly longer focal length (=higher resolution) and stitch (= limitless FOV). When you're clever (shoot Portrait orientation), it requires very little additional gear (a No-Parallax Point or NPP bar, and a rotator under the camera). This does assume you use a tripod of sorts,  otherwise practice with handheld stitches (walking around the NPP, instead of turning your neck). Distant subjects rarely suffer from parallax.

Cheers,
Bart

Are you suggesting a multi-shot image using the T/S?  Obviously, I've never tried that. Something else to study and practice!

I use a panning clamp and nodal slide and have a small tilt head measured up for vertical multi-shot images and horizontal images that require off horizontal tilt (up or down) so I can keep the nodal point over the center of  rotation.  And I do shoot vertical multishots in landscape and horizontal ones in portrait to obtain the most pixels.

In my experience, the parallax issue really is of concern when the distance between verticals (or horizontals) is large compared to the distance from the camera. 
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Paul2660

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2016, 09:03:37 am »

Having the Tilt and shift in the same place is really key if you are going to take full advantage of movements, and Canon figured this out with their TS-EII lenses.  I would have Nikon modify the lens, cost is 0 if you are NPS, and about 200.00 if not.  Another reason I stayed away from the lens not being NPS. 

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2016, 09:30:09 am »

Having the Tilt and shift in the same place is really key if you are going to take full advantage of movements, ...

Hi Paul,

Only if shooting frontal. As mentioned earlier, when shooting the facade/building at an angle (which is more dynamic), the cross orientation of T/S can be more useful. Obviously, having the freedom to adjust both at will is the most flexible solution (I often use partially rotated orientations).

Cheers,
Bart
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dwswager

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2016, 01:24:02 pm »

Hi Paul,

Only if shooting frontal. As mentioned earlier, when shooting the facade/building at an angle (which is more dynamic), the cross orientation of T/S can be more useful. Obviously, having the freedom to adjust both at will is the most flexible solution (I often use partially rotated orientations).

Cheers,
Bart

I'm pretty sure this is the issue that has kept me from buying the Nikon 24mm PC-E.  I know enough to know I would want the ability to reorient the movements, but I don't know enough to decide given I can't, which way I would prefer it.  I hope they fix this on the rumored 19mm PC-E and any updates to the 24, 45 and 85mm ones.
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alan_b

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2016, 01:49:13 pm »

Anything's possible w/ the new 19mm, but who knows when it'll actually hit the streets.  As for an update on the 24mm, I wouldn't hold my breath. 

If you can benefit from the TS workflow, just get one and get to know it.  You can always sell it later if you don't get along with it!  For architecture when you're focussing at 10-15'+, DoF isn't really an issue at f/8-11.  Field curvature is a characteristic of the 24 - it can also help eliminate the need for tilt in a lot of circumstances.  Capture One is also helpful if you're critical on correcting distortion - it allows you to offset the center of the distortion correction to match your shift.

Every system has compromises...
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ccroft

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2016, 11:32:39 pm »

I'm pretty sure this is the issue that has kept me from buying the Nikon 24mm PC-E.  I know enough to know I would want the ability to reorient the movements, but I don't know enough to decide given I can't, which way I would prefer it. 

Don't let that stop you! If you're mostly interested in architecture then tilt is very seldom all that useful. Too many perfectly vertical elements that need to be in focus top to bottom strewn throughout the scene. Unless you're shooting details. I changed mine myself. It's very easy to do on the 24. On the others you need a Nikon part. I always figured I could change it back if I wanted to, but haven't had the need. For the handful of times tilt helps me it's usually forward, and in the same plane as the shift. (in fact, if I could save 6 or $800 i'd happily buy a much smaller and simpler shift only lens... like the PC35 I also use from time to time)

Excellent advice from alan_b. The field curvature totally works for you, especially in rooms.

I can't bite my tongue as I usually do when people diss this lens: if your main reason for buying a shift lens is for shift stitch, then you'll most likely set up vertical, rack it all the way to one side, and then rotate for the stitched-up wider view. You'll be disappointed with the results. If like me you want a shift lens so you can, for EG, shoot at normal eye-level and shift down to see less ceiling you'll be very happy. I'm usually within the sweet range of the shift. As someone else said you may be surprised at how much image shift 5 or 6mm of offset actually produces.

And I see you're using another lens that gets little love here or at GetDPI: the 16 to 35. I like this one too, and it's my go to when the 24 won't quite get me where I want to go. (hope that doesn't brand me a numbskull and void my earlier comments... :)

« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 11:37:02 pm by ccroft »
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Theodoros

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2016, 02:21:30 pm »


I'm not sure that many understand how Sheimpflug principal works with respect to shifts... For one to need tilting against a subject it would mean that the plane he is after is bent with respect to the image area plane... If it is a building or a monument against the camera, it would mean that the building or the monument is bent backwards or forwards... Otherwise one has framed a detail of a building, which of course means that the image area is bent as to capture it... 
In all the above cases, shifting isn't needed at all.... all one needs is tilting as to have all the plane he is after in focus. All in all, shifts should be vertical to tilts for 99% of architectural photography...

It is when there is a group of structures that their surface plane is angled with respect to the camera image area that one needs to use shifts and tilts combined and that requires the two movements to be vertical to each other...
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Theodoros

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2016, 08:58:36 pm »

Hmmm... this reads like the still life photographers guide to architectural photography.

Sheimpflug is useful in AP when shooting acutely angled elevations but for everything else you just need shift and to stop down.   

Paul

Actually I think you misread my comment, because it says the same as you... The picture you post is exactly the case where one may need combination of shifts and tilts in AP and then the two movements have to be vertical to each other.... In still life photography, tilts and shifts may be needed in the same direction if the rail of the monorail used is angled towards the subject... in still life though one is much better off if he uses a technical camera instead of a T/S lens...  That said, In complex interior architectural work there are cases (like a byzantine monastery interior for instance) where one has to use all rising, swing and tilt (and even add some side shift sometimes on the very same standard) but it is hardly the case where a T/S lens could cope with job... After all it's only a trip to Italy of a Nikon user we are talking here...
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Theodoros

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Re: Recommended T&S Lens for a Trip to Italy
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2016, 06:33:56 am »

Newton (Issac not Helmut) said, "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"
I don't think he was talking about interior photography and Sheimpflug's tilts & swings but he could have been.


I'm afraid not...  Newton was talking about physical forces only...


If there is more than one plane in the image then using swing or tilt to try and improve composition or DoF will almost always have a detrimental effect on the other planes in the composition. 
I have believed this for so long that beyond the simple one plane example I posted above I have stopped thinking of tilts & swings as a viable technique in AP. But maybe someone out there makes it work?

Never to old to stop learning.

Paul

It is always best for one to stick with the minimum required... but if it is required, it is!
Tilting or swinging, other than redirecting the angle of the (one and only) plane to be focused, it also changes the angle of the deepest and nearest DOF planes (as I'm sure you know) so that they cross... This means that what would be the parallel sides of a cube, would then be the crossing opposite sides of a prism... In complex internal architecture, it's often required that one widens the DOF by using as wide a section of the "prism" as it is required, as to capture two different angled planes that are both included in that section.
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