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Author Topic: The Turkish Military take over.  (Read 16359 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2016, 12:02:23 pm »

The American military stayed in Germany and Japan to foster democracy.    Obama pulled out of Iraq.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2016, 12:03:01 pm »

BBC:

Quote
More than 15,000 education staff in Turkey have been suspended after last week's failed coup, as a purge of state officials widens still further.

The army, judiciary, security and civil service have all been targeted following Friday's coup attempt:

- 6,000 military personnel have been arrested, with more than two dozen generals awaiting trial
- 9,000 police officers have been sacked
- 3,000 judges have been suspended

More than 250 staff in Mr Yildirim's office have been removed

Turkey's media regulation body on Tuesday also revoked the licenses of 24 radio and TV channels accused to have links to Mr Gulen.

The ability to identify the "enemies" of the government so quickly and on such a wide scale might indicate prior preparations for this, if not outright staging. In any case, one giant step toward a caliphate.

Rob C

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2016, 12:14:45 pm »

Probably many people agree that Iraq/Libya was a mistake, hindsight being 20/20.  Whether or not the populations in those countries deserved a better life/better leaders is another story, but obviously things are a mess there now.  One could argue that those people had a great opportunity to turn everything around and make a great country for themselves after the war.  They really could have, were it not for all their silly tribal feuds and religious bickering between the different groups.   Having said that, hat's off to the Germans for their big turn around.  They took the opportunity to make their lives/country better after their tyrannical leader.  Same for Japan.  Why didn't the Iraqi's take advantage of the opportunity they had?   They certainly had the money and military backing to do it after the war, yet, they squandered it and insisted on returning to fighting among themselves.  Either way, thanks for nothing.  Big mistake to ever get involved.   Such a huge waste of lives, effort and money.


Because you are applying Western ideals as the measure.

Religion that's so sytemic and overarching doesn't work by the same rules as you or I probably understand. We have freedom for and also from religion; others do not share or necessarily seek that.

You simply can't export alien ideas and expect others to welcome them. Why should they? Those are foreign ideas being forced upon existing ways of life, just like the poster event in London Underground.

We may or may not approve of sharia etc, but it isn't our business unless there are attempts to enforce it in/on our countries.

Rob

Photog-x

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2016, 12:21:54 pm »

We may or may not approve of sharia etc, but it isn't our business unless there are attempts to enforce it in/on our countries.

Rob

Unfortunately, the UK already has some of this in place.  I haven't followed this story since it's not in my country, but a quick search turns up several bad stories about this practice in the UK.  It was probably allowed so as to not seem 'intolerant'.   
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/624457/Islamic-Sharia-Council-Machteld-Zee-Islam

News flash.  Keep your clothes on, ladies.  The sharia enforcer was apparently watching and disapproved:
http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/19/mother-and-three-daughters-stabbed-in-french-resort-for-being-scantily-dressed-6016072/
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 12:29:40 pm by Photog-x »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2016, 01:51:48 pm »

Unfortunately, the UK already has some of this in place.

Not quite. It has no legal foundation, it's a religious council. And in the UK there is a formal separation of powers, the typical division of branches is into a legislature, an executive, and a judiciary.

Quote
News flash.  Keep your clothes on, ladies.  The sharia enforcer was apparently watching and disapproved:
http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/19/mother-and-three-daughters-stabbed-in-french-resort-for-being-scantily-dressed-6016072/

Yes, intolerant religious fanatics (of any faith) are always bad news.

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Justinr

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2016, 01:53:06 pm »

BBC:

The ability to identify the "enemies" of the government so quickly and on such a wide scale might indicate prior preparations for this, if not outright staging. In any case, one giant step toward a caliphate.

On the other hand he might simply have been paranoid and kept the list in case of such an eventuality. As you say, Turkey has a history of coups so doubt he took precautions and had the necessary response ready to roll out.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2016, 02:38:12 pm »

... Yes, intolerant religious fanatics (of any faith) are always bad news.

But only one faith currently calls for fanatics (or not) to act on a massive, world-wide scale.

Alan Klein

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2016, 02:49:11 pm »

Many faiths still proselytize and try to convert others.  It's the convert or death that's the issue. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2016, 03:58:16 pm »

Many faiths still proselytize and try to convert others.  It's the convert or death that's the issue. 

Speaking about religious conversion, I opt for the fourth most popular religion in the world:

Rob C

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2016, 04:56:34 pm »

Unfortunately, the UK already has some of this in place.  I haven't followed this story since it's not in my country, but a quick search turns up several bad stories about this practice in the UK.  It was probably allowed so as to not seem 'intolerant'.   
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/624457/Islamic-Sharia-Council-Machteld-Zee-Islam

News flash.  Keep your clothes on, ladies.  The sharia enforcer was apparently watching and disapproved:
http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/19/mother-and-three-daughters-stabbed-in-french-resort-for-being-scantily-dressed-6016072/


FGM is also one of the delights imported into Britain. We should be so grateful for multiculturalism!

Rob

Photog-x

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2016, 08:46:49 pm »

Other news from that part of the world.  This is just disgusting.  Those pigs are absolutely worthless animals.  Please stop giving these 'Rebels' money.    Anyway, I have an 11 year old son and I can't imagine the terror that boy felt before he died.  These pigs should be exterminated.  Period. :-(

Syria conflict: Rebels 'filmed beheading boy' in Aleppo (suspected to be around 10 years old).
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36835678

Edit:  I think I'll stop posting in the Coffee Corner area.  I'm in a better mood when not thinking about current events and it's especially not good (for me) to mix my photography web sites with current events discussion.  I'd much rather focus on photography when I visit photography sites. 
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 05:09:56 am by Photog-x »
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2016, 01:14:40 pm »

Not quite. It has no legal foundation, it's a religious council. And in the UK there is a formal separation of powers, the typical division of branches is into a legislature, an executive, and a judiciary.

The separation in the UK isn't bad, but the executive is drawn from the legislature. Until Blair started fiddling, the very senior judiciary also were made members of the upper chamber, whose speaker was the head of the judiciary. It all worked pretty well (and pragmatism has been the basis of the UK constitution for a very long time) but he was only a semi-educated lawyer who thought the creation of a defined supreme court would aid separation.

As far as I understand it, Montesquieu's tripartite system is rather better implemented in America than over here.

Jeremy
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scyth

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2016, 01:37:35 pm »

The American military stayed in Germany and Japan to foster democracy.    Obama pulled out of Iraq.

but I don't recall neither germans nor japanese actually fighting after the defeat  ;D ...  once they were ordered to surrender they did as they told and pulled the pants down... a totally different mentality vs some other countries/societies
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Rob C

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2016, 04:14:02 pm »

but I don't recall neither germans nor japanese actually fighting after the defeat  ;D ...  once they were ordered to surrender they did as they told and pulled the pants down... a totally different mentality vs some other countries/societies


Right, and the difference is religion taken to extremes, where there is no freedom for religion as well as from it, only a compulsory mandate to comply or die. We are fortunate, but had better be careful we don't let it all slip right through our fingers. There are those always trying, bit by little bit, to do just that: remove choice and introduce compulsion. Done slowly, the majority never notices a thing.

Rob

Justinr

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2016, 05:32:29 pm »

but I don't recall neither germans nor japanese actually fighting after the defeat  ;D ...  once they were ordered to surrender they did as they told and pulled the pants down... a totally different mentality vs some other countries/societies

Of course defeat may be defined as the inability to fight any further, so it is therefore impossible to fight after defeat!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2016, 08:15:33 pm »

A picture is worth a thousand words:

scyth

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2016, 08:50:32 pm »

Of course defeat may be defined as the inability to fight any further, so it is therefore impossible to fight after defeat!

define as you wish - the hard fact is, they didn't (we don't count few Japanese who simply did not hear the order - I am talking about the "mainland") and so occupation forces could stay unmolested...
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Alan Klein

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2016, 10:42:31 pm »

but I don't recall neither germans nor japanese actually fighting after the defeat  ;D ...  once they were ordered to surrender they did as they told and pulled the pants down... a totally different mentality vs some other countries/societies

Good point.  Germany and Japan are fairly homogenous peoples unlike Iraq's.  Of course there was East Germany and West Germany during  the cold war but it was really the Soviets against the West.   Also Germany and Japan were truly defeated with major destruction throughout.  We don't fight wars that way anymore.  Certainly Iraq was hardly destroyed the way things were in the defeated countries after WWII. 

Zorki5

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #78 on: July 21, 2016, 06:25:05 pm »

A picture is worth a thousand words:

This is so sad...

Sometimes, when sh!t happens, I use to say, "Well, whatever happens, it's the way of progress for you..." And then instantly recall that Middle Ages proved me wrong many times over. A lost millennium is not a "delay" by any means; it's a true reversal.
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Justinr

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Re: The Turkish Military take over.
« Reply #79 on: July 21, 2016, 07:10:19 pm »

define as you wish - the hard fact is, they didn't (we don't count few Japanese who simply did not hear the order - I am talking about the "mainland") and so occupation forces could stay unmolested...

The German and Japanese forces were completely crushed, they had nothing left to fight with because they had carried on to the bitter end. Both wanted total war and both suffered total defeat hence it wasn't a question of whether they wanted to molest the occupying forces or not, they simply were not able to do so.
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