X-T2 is out, (offically) Who is interested

[Alan Smallbone]

Jon,

No there is no full size embedded preview. I don't know of any camera manfacturer that has a full size jpg preview. They are all reduced as far as I know.

Alan

[rdonson]

John, like you I've been shooting RAW+JPG (Fine) since we've now got 2 card slots.  I did notice that on Import that Lightroom doesn't show the images of the RAW files.  I thought that was odd.  However in reviewing images the X-T2 definitely shows a thumbnail JPG when you're looking at a RAW file.  Or at least that's what I think as when I choose to view the card slot with JPGs I can zoom in to a much great degree than when viewing the RAW files.  I have no idea yet why Lightroom doesn't display the typical RAW thumbnail unless Fuji hasn't shared some spec.

[john beardsworth]

No there is no full size embedded preview. I don't know of any camera manfacturer that has a full size jpg preview. They are all reduced as far as I know.

Pretty sure Nikon do, Alan.

I can't say for sure as I'm away from my main PC.

John

[john beardsworth]

John, like you I've been shooting RAW+JPG (Fine) since we've now got 2 card slots.  I did notice that on Import that Lightroom doesn't show the images of the RAW files.  I thought that was odd.  However in reviewing images the X-T2 definitely shows a thumbnail JPG when you're looking at a RAW file.  Or at least that's what I think as when I choose to view the card slot with JPGs I can zoom in to a much great degree than when viewing the RAW files.  I have no idea yet why Lightroom doesn't display the typical RAW thumbnail unless Fuji hasn't shared some spec.

Actually, Ron, I don't shoot raw + JPEG because that gives me twice as many files to manage! I would only do so in some circumstances (such as extreme time pressure).

I am not sure exactly what was happening in your case, but I was actually using a B&W film simulation yesterday and the Import dialog showed the Fuji B&W conversion. That's because Import only uses the JPEG preview that is embedded inside each raw file. This is the 1920x1280 that I see in PM. But when you view the JPEG card, then you are seeing the 6000x4000 of the fine JPEG.

What's actually behind my interest in full sized previews is partly a desire to compare Fuji JPEGs with Adobe's output - I was very happy with how Adobe's Velvia treatment matched up to Fuji's. But I also have a little plugin that uses Exiftool to extract the embedded JPEG and add it into Lightroom. If the raf contained a full size preview, I'd be able to get the Fuji fine JPEG directly whenever I wanted - instead of needing to think ahead....

[Paul2660]

Another tip on the in camera is I turn on sharpening +2, especially on the 24MP Fuji's as without it when you view the jpg after the shot, you can't make out enough to see if the finer stuff is there in focus. 

At least for my tired eyes. 

Paul C

[rdonson]

John,  I've only had the Fuji X-T2 for a short while and shooting RAW+JPG (RAW to Slot 1 and JPG to Slot 2) was simply an experiment I was doing with some night time photography of Waffle House and other establishments that looked cool.  I was just learning my way around the camera.  I have two 32 Gb UHS II cards so I went for it.  I loved how easy Fuji has made it to switch between viewing Slot 1 and Slot 2 photos.

On my shots the color fidelity between the RAW and JPG in camera were remarkably good.  Again, just testing things with Provia, Velvia and Acros.  The Acros is pretty compelling and I'm going to have to try that some more in Lightroom for RAW conversion using the Acros profile.  Acros JPGs looked great.

[Alan Smallbone]

Pretty sure Nikon do, Alan.

I can't say for sure as I'm away from my main PC.

John

I used to shoot Canon, it makes sense that previews are not full size.  A full size jpg takes processing time and creates larger files.  Maybe Nikon does but I would find it hard to see why they would, but that is just me.  With Fuji you can always process a raw file in camera and output a jpg for comparisons, just a thought.

Alan

[john beardsworth]

On my shots the color fidelity between the RAW and JPG in camera were remarkably good.  Again, just testing things with Provia, Velvia and Acros.  The Acros is pretty compelling and I'm going to have to try that some more in Lightroom for RAW conversion using the Acros profile.  Acros JPGs looked great.

We've all only had the XT2 a short while!

I actually used the Acros - Green in camera, more because I wanted a green filter look than because I wanted to simulate a particular film (I admit I'd never heard of the Acros brand though I knew of Fuji's Neopan and have a lot of Ilford and Agfa negs). Much against my expectation, I quite enjoyed composing with a B&W image in the EVF, and it definitely made me work harder to isolate subjects from a very messy background. That's good even if I later choose to use those images in colour.

Anyway, I compared the extracted JPEGs to Adobe's corresponding profile and they were acceptably close as a starting point. The trouble was that as soon as I wanted to fine tune the look in the B&W panel, I then had to lose the Adobe Acros profile. But I see that as a small thing compared to the positive effect of composing in B&W.

[john beardsworth]

I used to shoot Canon, it makes sense that previews are not full size.  A full size jpg takes processing time and creates larger files.  Maybe Nikon does but I would find it hard to see why they would, but that is just me.  With Fuji you can always process a raw file in camera and output a jpg for comparisons, just a thought.

I think it's an option with Nikon, not default, but it's something I've set after buying the cameras. The benefit is significant - in software like PM or Nikon View, you can review and output the full size image quickly and without raw conversion.

[rdonson]

But I see that as a small thing compared to the positive effect of composing in B&W.

John, that's one reason I love shooting RAW and JPEG.  I see in real B&W but have the ability to then process the RAW if I choose.

[john beardsworth]

John, that's one reason I love shooting RAW and JPEG.  I see in real B&W but have the ability to then process the RAW if I choose.

I feel I can always produce better B&Ws in Lightroom etc, so I would only shoot raw+jpeg on exceptional occasions, but it was surprising how the B&W in the EVF caused me to be more careful with background clutter. Seeing the aperture's effect in real time was also an interesting experience.

@Alan I just checked my Nikon raw files and they all have a full size embedded preview. I can't find the option on my D800, so maybe it's now the default.

John

[Alan Smallbone]

Thanks John was not aware of that about Nikon cameras.

The Fuji has the built in raw converter on the camera so you can always generate different jpgs with different conversions etc. for comparisons.

I agree I set it b&w mode often, makes it interesting for composing images. If I am worried about critical focus I will shoot raw+jpg, that way when you do a review in camera and zoom in it will use the full size jpg rather then the embedded preview.

Alan

[john beardsworth]

Alan, a friend tells me his Canon 7D has a full size embedded preview - he tested it. Someone else thinks that if you shoot raw + fine JPEG, Canon embeds a fine JPEG inside the raw file. If raw + normal JPEG, they embed a normal JPEG in the raw. So it seems Canon allows full size embedded previews too.

Imagine you're culling a big shoot like my 1200+ from just a couple of hours with the electronic shutter and high speed. With Nikon raw files, I only have one raw file per photo and using PhotoMechanic or Mac's Preview I quickly review full size embedded previews, and output them too. Compare that with the XT2 raws and imagine I have a hi-res monitor - the previews are only 1920x1280 and to review images at 1:1 I'll need to use a raw converter and will not be seeing the Fuji rendering.

Anyway, I've contacts at Fuji UK and will ping them after Photokina.

[rdonson]

I feel I can always produce better B&Ws in Lightroom etc, so I would only shoot raw+jpeg on exceptional occasions, but it was surprising how the B&W in the EVF caused me to be more careful with background clutter. Seeing the aperture's effect in real time was also an interesting experience.

John

My B&W conversion tool of choice is generally MacPhun Tonality called from Lr but sometimes from PS. 

Seeing in B&W vs imagining seeing in B&W is a HUGE benefit.  As you say, I see the scene, shapes, lines, tones, etc. all in a different light with the EVF.  😄

[Paul2660]

Alan, a friend tells me his Canon 7D has a full size embedded preview - he tested it. Someone else thinks that if you shoot raw + fine JPEG, Canon embeds a fine JPEG inside the raw file. If raw + normal JPEG, they embed a normal JPEG in the raw. So it seems Canon allows full size embedded previews too.

Imagine you're culling a big shoot like my 1200+ from just a couple of hours with the electronic shutter and high speed. With Nikon raw files, I only have one raw file per photo and using PhotoMechanic or Mac's Preview I quickly review full size embedded previews, and output them too. Compare that with the XT2 raws and imagine I have a hi-res monitor - the previews are only 1920x1280 and to review images at 1:1 I'll need to use a raw converter and will not be seeing the Fuji rendering.

Anyway, I've contacts at Fuji UK and will ping them after Photokina.

It's sure worth a try as Fuji does listen and may allow it later on with a firmware update.  I agree that with the larger 24MP, the preview does suffer a bit even with sharpening turned up. 

Paul C

[john beardsworth]

It's sure worth a try as Fuji does listen and may allow it later on with a firmware update.

That's exactly why I thought it worthwhile, Paul. Other camera makers use firmware updates for bugs, Fuji refines and adds features.

[rdonson]

John, any idea how many MB will a full size JPEG would add to the RAW or compressed RAW file?

Just curious as I've been only saving with compressed RAW.

[john beardsworth]

I'd guess the option would add 6mb per file, Ron. Assuming Fuji would use the camera's fine JPEG, the camera seems to create 7mb files but you would no longer need the existing .5mb 1920x1280 image. Compression then seems to shrink the fine JPEGs by about 10%. So around 6mb extra.

John

[rdonson]

Thanks, John.  It sounds like an option that Fuji might be willing to entertain along with the existing RAW and JPG options.

[john beardsworth]

I'll speak to my own sources in the UK, but I've pinged Kevin R just in case he's due to meet Fuji at Photokina and is (perhaps unusually) lost for words

John