Brexit

[Rob C]

Oh come on, Germany has had 60+ years of good, stable government. Italy was cited as an example of PR producing instability. Bye.

Ciao...

Rob C

[Rob C]

Ha, ha, ha, ha. Oh dear. It's the way you tell 'em.

Moving on, I want my country back. Pre-Brexit referendum, without the open, rampant xenophobia & racism (Daily Mail, Express & Sun excepted, obviously), without the ridiculous fear & hostility.

It's his talent... Different folks, different strokes.

I also want the old country back as it was, pretty much; it sickens me to watch pro-Remain political people now espouse and attempt to glorify and talk up the new direction against which they had so passionately (some) warned: it simply tuns them into risible hypocrits. But, truth to tell, who really expected better? I never voted Labur in my lfe, but I have to respect the courage of those who resigned and refused the whips. Good on them; I wish more on the right had some balls too.

But beyond that, I fear that it was probably inevitable. Whether within the ranks of the great unwashed or even in those of the retired 'n' comfortable, thank you, there has always been this notion of the Brits being, somehow, of better stock. Sharing blood across both the UK and Europe, I see the madness in the minds of some of the islanders as I do in those of similarly disposed mainland dwellers. I think the problem is that it's just too easy to retreat within the nest and see all outside as threat. I guess that's Trump's trump card, too.

What a shame that the young and the mid-aged have been robbed of so many opportunities that they had as rights, that they could simply get up and go somewhere else without having to ask first, have to have a job waiting to which to go, et-awkward-cetera. Oh! it was a two-way deal, wasn't it? Can't have that - unfair! Might also benefit the better-educated on all sides - doubly unfair!

;-)

Rob

[Rob C]

I'm certainly holding my nose while I say that the coalition did provide 5 years of much-needed stability after the crash. But it's obvious it did so. 

PS By "popular consent" I mean a stable majority in Parliament and a majority of the popular vote.

John, the caveats grow like Pinocchio's nose.

'bye.

Rob C

[john beardsworth]

John, the caveats grow like Pinocchio's nose.

Clarification, not caveats, clearly needed for the illiterate and ignorant....

[Chairman Bill]

What a shame that the young and the mid-aged have been robbed of so many opportunities that they had as rights, that they could simply get up and go somewhere else without having to ask first, have to have a job waiting to which to go, et-awkward-cetera. Oh! it was a two-way deal, wasn't it? Can't have that - unfair! Might also benefit the better-educated on all sides - doubly unfair!

I wonder whether if Cameron had had the balls to to say "Wait!", and then left it for a couple of years before the referendum, we would have a very different outcome. The changing demographics are inexorably on the Remain side. Two hard winters would see off a good number of those who voted Leave, and add new voters at the other end of the scale, new voters who are overwhelmingly in favour of staying in the EU, with all the benefits that brings. I find my students are far more in favour of opening up horizons, of working with people from diverse backgrounds, and looking forward to what might be, rather than the little Englander, "Bloody forriners!" and the harking back to some golden age that never was mentality. My kids think in terms of having had something of their future taken from them, largely by people who don't have that much of a future left. They're probably right.

I'm hoping that Labour's strategy of a series of amendments to the Tory Brexit plan, will lead us to either a reasonable compromise, or a situation where the plan is rejected, and Parliament tells Government to go back to the drawing board. Maybe that will give us a second chance, to say yea or nay to what they offer up as the basis under which we leave. A second, confirmatory referendum, with a clear plan on the table, not the lies, misinformation & never-to-be-honoured promises of the first. An opportunity for an informed say in our future. For the sake of my children, I bloody well hope so.

[stamper]

As a Brit from a long line of Brits I'm never happier than when I'm elsewhere.

You mean out of your mind?

[mecrox]

Ha, ha, ha, ha. Oh dear. It's the way you tell 'em.

Moving on, I want my country back. Pre-Brexit referendum, without the open, rampant xenophobia & racism (Daily Mail, Express & Sun excepted, obviously), without the ridiculous fear & hostility.

+2

[athegn]

Not all "retired 'n comfortable" voted Leave. I mainly associate with such people. The week before the referendum one such group had a straw pole; 19 Remain - 2 Leave. I was surprised by the weighting of that group towards Remain as from other similar aquaintancies I would have expected say 12 - 9; still in favour of Remain though. My borough was definately Remain and my MP was one of the Labour rebels; I have never (alright as a 20 year old I voted Wilson, but did not 2 years later) voted Labour, as I think most of the 19 -2 group have not.

We were probably the great unwashed, on the straw pole day, as this was at the pub lunch break for our Rambling group; crossing farm land tends to be dusty or muddy.

[Rob C]

Clarification, not caveats, clearly needed for the illiterate and ignorant....

Oxford dictionary:

caveat: noun, a warning or provision of specific stipulations, conditoins, or limitations.

Snap.

Rob C

[Rob C]

What can I say, I was at art college in the sixties. ;-)

Then you should have been a musician instead of a painter/illustrator/photographer or other form of graphic artist!

;-)

Rob

[john beardsworth]

Oxford dictionary:
caveat: noun, a warning or provision of specific stipulations, conditoins, or limitations.
Snap.

Not snap at all. I saw that what I had said was unclear, so I clarified it. FFS.

[Rob C]

Not snap at all. I saw that what I had said was unclear, so I clarified it. FFS.

Oh well, as long as you're happy now.

;-)

Rob

[Rob C]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg8mVilT4HE

Makes you think. Sound's in English.

[Rob C]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/15074120.Captains_of_industry_reveal_damage_done_to_UK_businesses_since_Brexit_vote/?ref=eb

It's so obvious, that it seems impossible for everyone not to have known this.

Rob C

[mecrox]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/15074120.Captains_of_industry_reveal_damage_done_to_UK_businesses_since_Brexit_vote/?ref=eb

It's so obvious, that it seems impossible for everyone not to have known this.

Rob C

I agree, but that's not necessarily the right question. Have you seen this excellent piece on education and voting from the redoubtable John Naughton?

[Rob C]

I agree, but that's not necessarily the right question. Have you seen this excellent piece on education and voting from the redoubtable John Naughton?

Thanks for the link; the north/south divide in Britain seems to underline what's being poined out in the link. Sobering reading all right!

Rob

[mecrox]

Thanks for the link; the north/south divide in Britain seems to underline what's being poined out in the link. Sobering reading all right!

Rob

Lol, there's a true but fantastical story (props to the great Nige) which approaches the subject from another angle: you can be the most outrageous and obvious charlatan but still make millions, attract credulous voters by the bucketful and even run your own radio station (Twitter avant la lettre) if you can convince enough people that what is good for you is also good for them (and all despite blatant evidence suggesting otherwise from people who know what they are talking about, like those UK industrialists).

[Alan Klein]

Britain could not be "half-in, half-out" of the EU, the Prime Minister said to Parliament, referring to the letter to the EU that they are leaving.

So what does it all mean now?

[pegelli]

Britain could not be "half-in, half-out" of the EU, the Prime Minister said to Parliament, referring to the letter to the EU that they are leaving.

So what does it all mean now?

Nothing new, sometimes politicians feel the need to state the obvious with the hope the people think they're brilliant

The question is not "half-in, half out", it's clear they are 100% out (in 2 years). The point is what agreements do they make with the EU to avoid falling back on WTO trade rules and what they have to give back in return.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Nothing new, sometimes politicians feel the need to state the obvious with the hope the people think they're brilliant

The question is not "half-in, half out", it's clear they are 100% out (in 2 years). The point is what agreements do they make with the EU to avoid falling back on WTO trade rules and what they have to give back in return.

Is the second paragraph of this comment intended to demonstrate the truth of the first?

Jeremy