Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?  (Read 3157 times)

AFairley

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1486
Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« on: June 22, 2016, 01:29:23 pm »

I guess my real question is whether the DNG created by merger to panorama is a true raw file retaining the original headroom of the original DNGs or acutally a TIFF in a DNG wrapper.  I expect there would be more potential for highlight recovery in the former than the latter, and if that's so, I should perform needed highlight recovery and sync develop settings before merging. What's the scoop and what do you pano guys do?
Logged

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4595
    • My photography site
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2016, 02:04:19 pm »

In general, it really doesn't matter whether you do global adjustments before or after. The one exception is dust spot corrections which you should do first - unless you enjoy correcting each spot each time it makes it into the merged image.

It can make sense to do highlights/shadows first if you are afraid that some highlights may be badly blown or shadows blocked. But that's only to decide if the image is worth merging or trashing.

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3913
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2016, 02:16:42 pm »

From my use of the pano tool it's my impression that all adjustments are stripped during the merger of the files. I have just started doing the merger first then the necessary image adjustments.

Panos from a series of HDR images still seems to over do the exposure and tends to blow out highlights.  I noticed this several versions back and it still appears to be a problem. I have a post in this forum with some examples.

LR Pano tool does do a very good merge just needs to be tweaked a bit.

Paul C


Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4595
    • My photography site
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2016, 02:32:44 pm »

Paul

For a panorama, any adjustments in the most selected image should be applied to the merge. Since 6.5 any dust spot corrections are applied individually to each image (instead of being ignored), which makes a lot of sense.

John

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3913
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2016, 03:41:53 pm »

Hi John.

I am not seeing the adjustments being combined i.e. Various adjustment brushes effecting exposure shadows highlights color sat etc seem to be removed when the file is combined.

But I will try again tonight to make sure.

Paul C
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4595
    • My photography site
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2016, 03:58:07 pm »

Local adjustments are would be discarded, Paul, but it does should respect global adjustments in the most selected image, and each image's spot corrections (individually).

John

[Updated after testing]
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 04:12:21 am by john beardsworth »
Logged

Jeremy Roussak

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7842
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2016, 04:41:36 am »

Local adjustments are would be discarded, Paul, but it does should respect global adjustments in the most selected image, and each image's spot corrections (individually).

[Updated after testing]

I'm not sure that's correct for the more recent versions of CC, John. I processed one shot pretty heavily, including adjustment brushes, before I remembered that I'd taken a second which could be stitched to it. The stitched result included all the adjustments, applied with very impressive accuracy.

Jeremy
Logged

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4595
    • My photography site
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2016, 05:14:50 am »

I'm not sure that's correct for the more recent versions of CC, John. I processed one shot pretty heavily, including adjustment brushes, before I remembered that I'd taken a second which could be stitched to it. The stitched result included all the adjustments, applied with very impressive accuracy.

Sure you're not talking Edit > Merge with Photoshop, Jeremy? With Lightroom CC .6 version (so no use of Photoshop), I've tested Panorama Merge again and it is as I wrote. All local adjustments in the source images are ignored - ie brush, radial and grad adjustments do not appear in the merged DNG. Global adjustments from only the most selected image are respected - ie do appear in the merged DNG - as are the spot corrections from each image individually.

John

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3913
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2016, 12:25:42 pm »

Sure you're not talking Edit > Merge with Photoshop, Jeremy? With Lightroom CC .6 version (so no use of Photoshop), I've tested Panorama Merge again and it is as I wrote. All local adjustments in the source images are ignored - ie brush, radial and grad adjustments do not appear in the merged DNG. Global adjustments from only the most selected image are respected - ie do appear in the merged DNG - as are the spot corrections from each image individually.

John

John.

Obviously I was referring to local adjustments. But I am curious why can't those be merged?  In LR pano merge? 

Not a big deal just curious.

Paul C
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4595
    • My photography site
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2016, 12:39:51 pm »

I don't think there's a big reason, Paul, but in general don't we tend to apply them later in the editing process, when we've corrected an image and are thinking more in terms of its interpretation?

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3913
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2016, 03:43:26 pm »

Hi John,

Here is the main reason for me.  Since LR came out with first the pano merge, the boundary warp, I use it for almost all my panos.  I tend to only shoot one row panos.  The boundary warp, does an amazing job, much better than the CC photoshop content aware tool, or attempting to warp a cylindrical pano to fill out the blanks in CC photoshop.

I have a catalog full of 4, 5, 6 part stitches, all of which were worked up with local adjustments since they were done prior to the release of the LR pano tool, thus when I roll these into LR's pano tool all the adjustment work I had done so far (see previous post) is lost.  Going forward not a big deal as I know to make the pano first, it's just the rework involved on all the older shots I would still like to revisit with LR pano tool, it's that good a tool.

Paul C
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

Jeremy Roussak

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7842
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2016, 04:31:14 pm »

Sure you're not talking Edit > Merge with Photoshop, Jeremy? With Lightroom CC .6 version (so no use of Photoshop), I've tested Panorama Merge again and it is as I wrote. All local adjustments in the source images are ignored - ie brush, radial and grad adjustments do not appear in the merged DNG. Global adjustments from only the most selected image are respected - ie do appear in the merged DNG - as are the spot corrections from each image individually.

John, I'm definitely talking about ctrl-M to stitch in LRCC. My image has a gradient mask, some of which is brushed away. The result of the mask seems to appear in the stitched result, although I agree that the mask itself - as an adjustable correction - doesn't.

I might be wrong, of course, in which case I apologise. But it seems that way. I'll do some testing.

Jeremy
Logged

FranciscoDisilvestro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1471
    • Frank Disilvestro
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2016, 07:59:05 pm »

I was referring to local adjustments. But I am curious why can't those be merged?  In LR pano merge? 

It will be very difficult to achieve this on a parametric workflow. For each local edit you have (in the catalog or XMP) a description of the mask (coordinates, type of brush, etc) plus a recipe for the adjustment. When you merge in a panorama that description may not make sense anymore and it would take a lot of effort (not impossible) to redefine the geometry of the mask based on the merge. In addition you may have boundary issues because there is no guarantee that the same adjustment was made in the contiguous section of the panorama.

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4595
    • My photography site
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2016, 02:07:02 am »

That difficulty has been overcome with spot healing, Francisco, as corrections are now calculated image by image and the results are then merged. The issue is as much a mental one, that it would be hard to impossible for the user to envisage the outcome of a variety of local adjustments.

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3913
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: Pano stitching - global adjusts before or after?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2016, 03:10:41 pm »

My workflow since 2003 has always been to work up the various stitch parts side by side, thus in LR, you where you can only have 2 side by side, I usually started far left or right then worked my through the stack of images.  I vastly prefer to fix the images in LR or C1 due to their vast array of excellent tool sets.  In the past I would then export and use one of the various stitching tools to combine.  But LR does such a good job I don't go past LR much anymore.  (huge problem for C1 as they don't have anything like this). 

With new work, I always just grab the files and make the pano, then start the work with local adjustments. 

My other point is that if you make a pano from a series of HDR images created in LR, the pano process will blow out highlights of the HDR images.  See my previous post on this,.  i.e this is still not fixed or never will be and it a big issue for me.  LR does a great HDR, tends to make lighter file than necessary which for a single image can be fixed. (here again with local adjustments) but if you take a series the local adjustments are dropped as has been explained previously, and if you are working with a sunset sunrise with tricky highlights, odds are the brightest parts will be blown out when the pano is created.  You can export the individual HDR image and combine them in CC photoshop and this issue doesn't happen. 

OH well,

Paul C
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com
Pages: [1]   Go Up