Topic: Epson 9890 - magenta tint (Read 8795 times)

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #20 on:** June 16, 2016, 08:10:28 am »

That link points to a process of elimination trying to see whether the problem is coming from profiling or from the operating system or from the printer itself. I'm not sure it's determinative - would need to spend more time with it than I have just now. However that said, NORMALLY with Epson printers, firmware upgrades do NOT interfere with colour management. As explained to me in the past, they take extra care to prevent this for obvious reasons - all hell would break-loose every time there is a firmware update. So I would look upon firmware as a very low probability cause. Likewise, recent updates of OSX, and I have implemented several of them over the past few years, have caused no colour management issues at least on my system, nor have I seen complaints of this kind from Snow Leopard upward. By having all the components up to date as you have, you probably reduced to a minimum the risk of incompatibility between drivers/OSX components being responsible for this problem.

So based on what we've seen so far: the only test you've done that gave you satisfactory results is the one with the printer managing colour, but when using ICC colour management the problem is only happening with the 9890, and it is happening from different Mac computers. It is also happening with different papers and profiles and on different photos. All this would seem to point to some kind of colour management breakdown specific to this printer when it is being used in ICC colour management mode. I'm assuming you did, but when you tested it with Epson paper, did you also use Epson's own profile for that paper? If you did and you still get the cast, you can be reasonably assured that the problem is likely not with the output profile (printer/paper) and more likely systemic. I would make one more suggestion: try one of those prints using Printer Color Management, this time in Advanced Black and White mode where the printer completely takes over colour management for sure. If you get neutral results from this, my thinking would be that you more assuredly have a colour management issue through the usual ICC profiling route (Application Color Management), the cause of which remains obscure. In that case, I strongly suggest you contact Epson ProGraphics for additional diagnostic help.

Garnick · « **Reply #21 on:** June 16, 2016, 08:42:55 am »

Hi Again Cornelius,

Just a thought. Are you using the same connection/cable for each test/computer? Since you have been testing from other computers I doubt that would be the case, but thought I would ask regardless. However, if you are using the same cable each time perhaps that's where the problem is. I don't recall if this has been mentioned, so forgive me if it has. I'm also sure you would have tried another cable long ago, but sometimes we tend to get caught up in the most technical aspects of a problem, while overlooking the obvious.

Gary

Cornelius · « **Reply #22 on:** June 16, 2016, 12:24:46 pm »

@Mark
Alright, I did your test.

Print 1: Printer Color Management in Advanced Black and White Mode with neutral greys --> faint magenta/purple cast
Print 2: Printer Color Management in Color Mode without color adjustments from the printer/driver --> neutral print without a color cast

Do you have a contact to Epson? I already contacted the german speaking online support, descripted my issue and all the test which I have done.
The only answer from them was, contact Adobe or Apple. If the nozzle check is clean, the problem comes not from Epson. :-/

I just rechecked some old b/w prints from 2-3 weeks ago. Unfortunately they also have the slight color cast which I did not mentioned yet.
So it seems as the issue appears already a bit longer.

@ Garnick
Good point, did not check the cable yet. So I exchanged the USB cable from the 9890 by the cable from my 3880.
No change, still have the color cast.

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #23 on:** June 16, 2016, 03:59:57 pm »

That tech support guy was trying to get rid of you. If you are still getting a cast in ABW mode, this does suggest something amiss in the printer/printer driver/firmware end of things. Call them back, ask for a higher level of support and tell them you are getting color casts in ABW mode. They cannot wiggle out of that one because it is at that point all Epson. I don't think Epson America would be available to you as you are in the German service area.

Cornelius · « **Reply #24 on:** June 17, 2016, 03:35:54 am »

Hi Mark

Thanks for your help. In the meantime I have an update as I called a print expert (Markus Zuber, who actually already read this discussion here) for help.
After his suggestion printing on my PD190 paper from Tecco with first ICC-CM Workflow, using the Epson enhanced matte ICC profil with perceptive and then a second print with CM by the printer and paper media von Enhanced matte we could figure out that the ColorManagement works. Both prints are similar.

Compared to a reference print from my Epson 3880 I definitely see a magenta cast on both test prints from the Epson 9890. So therefore he suggested that the CM works and it is rather an issue of the printer which is not able to print neutral greys. What I actually didn't know, that the Epson 9890 tends to this issue.

So the next step will be a personal profiling for my 9890 by Markus with the i1 Workflow and the goal to get better and more neutral greys.

Lets see what comes out!

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #25 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:06:31 am »

Hi Cornelius; yes I think we came to that conclusion the other day: something is amiss with the printer. Creating custom profiles with i1Profiler may correct the problem, so your friend Markus' proposal is a good one. Hope it works for you.

Cornelius · « **Reply #26 on:** June 17, 2016, 11:46:40 am »

Hi Mark - yes right, we had the conclusion with custom profiles here also. I also discussed with Markus the profiling with the ColorMunki (and I'm totally aware of that the ColorMunki is a really basic tool) and he told me that for color casts in greytones the ColorMunki just not work.

So let's see what comes hope. I hope to get the profiles on Monday to directly test them with some prints.
In the afternoon I have a telephone appointment with an swiss Epson Pro Graphics partner (recommended company by Markus) to further discuss my issue.
I'm absolutely sure in the beginning of 2016, when I bought the printer second hand this color cast was either much weaker or even not there. So maybe there is actually really a technical issue on the printer!?

I also did not mention here, that the only channel who "regularly" has clogged nozzle is Cyan. So maybe I really have to get a service technician to my studio for checking the printer and maybe change the dampers.

So finally, I guess we are on route to hopefully solve the problem and bring this plotter back to neutral greys for my own and the prints for my clients.

Thanks and I will update this topic as soon as I have the custom profiles and the discussion with the Epson Pro Graphics partner.

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #27 on:** June 17, 2016, 12:47:44 pm »

Thanks Cornelius, looking forward to the next update. Inadequate ink laydown from the Cyan channel for whatever reason would be a cause of a magenta or reddish cast. It will be interesting to hear the outcome of these next steps.

Cornelius · « **Reply #28 on:** June 22, 2016, 05:14:53 am »

Today I tested the printer with new custom ICC profiles, created with the i1 workflow. Unfortunately there is still no change. The magenta cast is still visible.
In the meantime I had a phone call with an Epson Pro Graphics partner who suggested a printer maintenance by a service technician to check the printhead, dampers, wiper blade and caping station.

I just wrote an email to the Epson Pro Graphics partner to arrange a visit of the service technician. Let's see if this finally solves the issue.

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #29 on:** June 22, 2016, 08:28:58 am »

Based on this outcome I think a service tech is the correct approach because it sounds more and more like some kind of mechanical under-performance. Hope that resolves it.

Cornelius · « **Reply #30 on:** July 22, 2016, 11:22:46 am »

Hi guys

So here is an update to the current situation. The bad news, the tint is still there. But so far I can say, it seems to be not a mechanical issue.

Last wednesday a service technician visited my studio and checked the plotter. After a test print and a print head test he told me, there is no technical problem with the printer. He acutually told me, the printer is in superb condition. *yes*

No I got the suggestion to print with a real RIP, which excludes the printer internal color linearization. So as ImagePrint is not yet working with the 9890, I tried the QuadTone RIP with a black/white image. AND, the cast is completely gone!! I can't believe it, but the print is absolutely neutral!
So back to the normal workflow (Photoshop and Epson printer driver), the cast is there.

So I guess the following things could be the issue:
- printer internal linearization is wrong or the internal board does not work correctly
- MacOSX color sync has an issue (what I don't think, as I tried 3 computers with two different OS version 10.10 and 10.11)

Does anyone has another suggestion? By the way, I tried to check the printer with the Epson linearization tool. But I always get an "firmware update needed" warning when trying to connect to the printer. This is strange, because the printer has the most recent firmware installed. I event reinstalled the firmware just minutes ago and tried the linearization tool again without any luck.

Does the tool maybe needs the SpectroProofer installed? Cause my plotter doesn't have the SpectroProofer.

Cheers
Cornelius

Cornelius · « **Reply #31 on:** July 22, 2016, 11:34:32 am »

Maybe I should add that I also tried the advanced black and white mode from the Epson printer (so Apple OSX ColorSync CMM switched off) and the color cast was also visible.
Next week I will try printing from a Windows computer to definitely exclude OSX as a source of the cast.

But what do you think about the internal color modul of the printer and the linearization. Could this be possible?

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #32 on:** July 22, 2016, 11:35:24 am »

What version of Photoshop or Lightroom are you printing from: the exact version number please.

Cornelius · « **Reply #33 on:** July 22, 2016, 12:00:16 pm »

Lightroom 2015.6 (latest CC version)
Photoshop 2015.5.0 (latest CC version)

OSX 10.11.5
Epson driver 9.33
Epson 9890 Firmware JW124G5

I also tried printing with a demo version of Mirage 3.5.

The only neutral print I could to was with the QuadTone RIP.

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #34 on:** July 22, 2016, 12:03:43 pm »

Colour management for printing is broken in both Photoshop and Lightroom's latest versions. Dial back to an earlier version and try your test again.

Cornelius · « **Reply #35 on:** July 22, 2016, 12:07:29 pm »

But why do I also see the cast printing with Mirage and Apple Preview?

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #36 on:** July 22, 2016, 12:12:13 pm »

No idea, I don't use either of those applications, but it's good eliminate one variable we KNOW is not printing correctly and that is the latest PS/LR.

Cornelius · « **Reply #37 on:** July 22, 2016, 12:17:24 pm »

If CM is broken in Photoshop and Lightroom. Could it only be visible printing on the Epson 9890? Because on my 3880 I get neutral prints out of PS and LR. ?

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #38 on:** July 22, 2016, 12:20:09 pm »

It's an OSX/Adobe problem not confined to any one printer model, so wrong colours would show from both of those printers.

jferrari · « **Reply #39 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:15:46 pm »

Quote from: Cornelius on July 22, 2016, 12:17:24 pm

If CM is broken in Photoshop and Lightroom. Could it only be visible printing on the Epson 9890? Because on my 3880 I get neutral prints out of PS and LR. ?

Is there any chance you have "Printer Manages Color" checked anywhere in the pipeline? This can be set from several places.

Author Topic: Epson 9890 - magenta tint (Read 8795 times)