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Author Topic: Kina forecast  (Read 9695 times)

Rob C

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2016, 03:41:13 pm »

Wouldn't it be nice to have a little version of a square-sensor camera, but digital? Even 36mm x 36mm would be sweet. How pleasant not to have to go onto the side, be able to shoot square and even to crop later, if needed.

Square opens up the freedom to compose portraits as you wish, whereas vertical always feels too tall and horizontals, whilst easier and more convenient to shoot, can still dilute the force of a strong, tight shot.

One wide, a 'standard' and a double-standard length for heads... In essence, more or less what used to be 40mm, 80mm and 180mm on 6x6. I think my roots are showing.

Rob
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 09:03:39 am by Rob C »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2016, 04:01:19 pm »

Sigma DP Quinta with a 500mm F2.8 lens
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eronald

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2016, 04:53:45 pm »

Rob,
 You are becoming a philosopher in your old age.
 BTW, the first name you have trouble remembering is Alois :)

Edmund


If I knew everything already then why would I have problems?

;-)

Rob C
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Rob C

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2016, 05:27:30 pm »

Rob,
 You are becoming a philosopher in your old age.
 BTW, the first name you have trouble remembering is Alois :)

Edmund

Second childhood is more appropriate; I left old age behind last month. This month I'm studying the old Leica chronicles:

http://leicaphilia.com/that-lens-has-character-really/

Rob

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2016, 06:30:41 pm »

Wouldn't it be nice to have a little version of a square-sensor camera, but digital? Even 36mm x 36mm would be sweet. How pleasant not to have to go onto the side, be able to shoot square and even to crop later, if needed.

Square opens up the freedom to compose portraits as you wish, whereas vertical always feels too tall and horizontals, whilst easier and more convenient to shoot, can still dilute the force of a strong, tight shot.

One wide, a 'standard' and a double-standard length for heads... In essence, more or less what used to be 45mm, 80mm and 180mm on 6x6. I think my roots are showing.

Yep, that'd be nice. Who knows, this may be what Hassy has in store for us?...

Cheers,
Bernard

dwswager

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2016, 07:27:38 pm »

The D810, for its time, was also definitely targeted at resolution.

The new 36MP-range, general-purpose camera will be the replacement to the D750. The D810-replacement will be 50MP-plus, although it will likely have a mRAW/sRAW mode for 36MP/18MP output too.

True when the D800 appeared, but by the time the D810 appeared, 36MP no longer so.  Increases in processing power, bandwidth and storage size overcame the limits.

If take the D5 off the table as out of reach based on SIZE, WEIGHT and COST for a lot of applications, and we assume the D900 is 72MP, there definitely is room and need for a  24-36MP FX sensor professional body camera.  I personally thought the D750 should have been packaged in a pro body when it was released. 

And John, I view the D500 as the most targeted Nikon in the lineup.  The D5 is a general purpose tool that excels at sports and wildlife, but also any other class of photography.  As a general purpose camera, I would personally go for a D810, D750 or D610 before a D500.  Only if I needed the fps and focus capability and could not go for the cost, size and weight of the D5 would I consider the D500 for general use.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2016, 07:49:30 pm »

I'll take that Nikkor 500mm f5.6 PF, please.  And a second D800 body, because they'll be cheap once the D900 appears.
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John Koerner

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2016, 11:17:26 pm »

And John, I view the D500 as the most targeted Nikon in the lineup.  The D5 is a general purpose tool that excels at sports and wildlife, but also any other class of photography.

A $6500 camera, with so-so low ISO, but unprecedented high-ISO/AF is "general purpose" ... but its little brother (that is almost as good at everything, but 3x cheaper) is "specialized" :o

We disagree.



As a general purpose camera, I would personally go for a D810, D750 or D610 before a D500.

The D500 does everything better than all of the aforementioned, except high-res, and it's cheaper.



Only if I needed the fps and focus capability and could not go for the cost, size and weight of the D5 would I consider the D500 for general use.

I think everyone disagrees with you.

DPReview called the D500 "the most well-rounded camera we've ever used," precisely because it does everything at a very high level, except absolute resolution.

The D5 is 3x as expensive.

Also, wasn't it you who said:

  • "FOCUS:  The D500 is amazing.  Not much experience with top line D4s and the like as most of my shooting has been with D810, D7200, D7100 and the D300.  The D500 blows them all away.  It isn't even close.  Even with the TC it snapped into focus and locked on.  Even on shots I thought would be out of focus, were in focus.  There were some out of focus shots, but from what I could tell, it was user error not getting the focus point (Dynamic 25) onto the target properly.

    "NOISE:  This thing has better high ISO capability and lower (or at least more controlled) noise than the D810.  I pulled the highest ISO shots (ISO 12800) and while they weren't great, they would be usable with some work.  I'm normally able to keep ISO down under 6400 in most cases, but the light on this night was just low.  I was shooting with 1 stop under exposure last night.

    ...

    "Looking at the image in camera, the focus spot was on the player's hip. With no other camera I have ever owned, would this first frame have been in focus.  I don't know how the D500 compares to the D5 or 7DmkII, but I am having a ball with this compared to the D810, D7200 and D300 I have shot in the past.
    "

Maybe I got it wrong, but I thought you said these things.

I am supposed to get mine next week, and I am going to Havasu Falls, so I will compare it to the D810.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 11:23:12 pm by John Koerner »
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dwswager

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2016, 01:34:51 pm »

The D500 does everything better than all of the aforementioned, except high-res, and it's cheaper.

Don't get me wrong, the D500 is awesome and if one were to choose an APS-C camera as a general purpose camera, the D500 would be it.  But pixel size still matters and always has for a number of reasons.  I have yet to see an APS-C equal the "technical" quality of a larger sensor full frame camera of the same technology.  When I pre-ordered the D500, I stated that I hoped it would approach the high ISO capability of the D810.  And it does, but it does not beat it.

I'm going to Spain and will be taking both the D810 and D500.  When shooting the soccer tournament the D500 will be the main camera.  However, when I shoot landscapes and cityscapes and nightscapes and other more artistic images, it will be the D810 I'm lugging around.  While the extra 15MP is part of the reason, it is not the only reason.
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Rob C

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2016, 02:15:27 pm »

Don't get me wrong, the D500 is awesome and if one were to choose an APS-C camera as a general purpose camera, the D500 would be it.  But pixel size still matters and always has for a number of reasons.  I have yet to see an APS-C equal the "technical" quality of a larger sensor full frame camera of the same technology.  When I pre-ordered the D500, I stated that I hoped it would approach the high ISO capability of the D810.  And it does, but it does not beat it.

I'm going to Spain and will be taking both the D810 and D500.  When shooting the soccer tournament the D500 will be the main camera.  However, when I shoot landscapes and cityscapes and nightscapes and other more artistic images, it will be the D810 I'm lugging around.  While the extra 15MP is part of the reason, it is not the only reason.


Footlball; Spain; I thought it was all safely away in France!

;-)

Rob C

P.S. I have just fitted a new mouse; it slides all over the place far more violently than its predecessor. I hope I can still use it to do PS... Typing this is almost a step too far - certainly one too damned fast!

John Koerner

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2016, 03:26:48 pm »

Don't get me wrong, the D500 is awesome and if one were to choose an APS-C camera as a general purpose camera, the D500 would be it.  But pixel size still matters and always has for a number of reasons.  I have yet to see an APS-C equal the "technical" quality of a larger sensor full frame camera of the same technology.  When I pre-ordered the D500, I stated that I hoped it would approach the high ISO capability of the D810.  And it does, but it does not beat it.

Thanks for the clarification.



I'm going to Spain and will be taking both the D810 and D500.  When shooting the soccer tournament the D500 will be the main camera.  However, when I shoot landscapes and cityscapes and nightscapes and other more artistic images, it will be the D810 I'm lugging around.  While the extra 15MP is part of the reason, it is not the only reason.

I think we are similar in our approach.

Ever since I had a debate with Michael Erlewine (about the Voigtlander 125 APO macro and the Sigma 180 macro), I have kind of done a make-over on my gear. While I favored the Sigma 180 macro due to its AF and VR capabilities for field use, he favored the precision and optical rendering of the Voigtlander mostly because he dealt with static situations. I have since grown to love a fully-manual, precision lens ... yet I still see their limitations in certain contexts where speed is required.

In an effort to get the best of both worlds, I not only purchased the Voigtlander APO macro, but I upgraded my Sigma 180 macro into a Nikkor 300mm VR II (when I need the speed and AF that the all-manual Voigtlander simply cannot give me), and the Nikkor 300's rendering is actually superior to both the Voigtlander and the Sigma.

My plan is to slap the 300mm AF Nikkor on my D500 as my main camera/lens combo for nature shots, to have at-the-ready ... where quick action is needed ... plus the additional reach ... but also to have the Voigtlander on my D810 for macro shots where I have the time to compose. I have actually gotten rid of every single AF lens I had, and now shoot only manual lenses on my D810 (elder Nikon Ai-S lenses), while I intend to use the D500's superior AF capabilities on the modern 300mm for action shots.

Yes, it will be a pain to hike with 2 cameras, but that is the only option as I see it: either/or was not my solution; both will be my solution.

Jack
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2016, 04:35:46 am »

I am more into lenses these days, especially the ones that can be mounted natively on the A7 series:)

Thus, I am very curious as to:

1. The new Samyang AF lenses (two have been announced already);

2. The new rumoured Loxia tele from Zeiss.

That's all.

FabienP

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2016, 05:56:03 pm »


- Hassy: digital XPan


I, too, would welcome a digital XPan!

But besides the uncommon sensor size and ratio, which would drive prices up, I fear the lenses would have to be much larger than the original Fuji lenses, which were using symmetric designs. Digital sensors would have trouble coping with that and Otus-sized telecentric lenses would probably have to be used instead ;).

With the rumoured 70+ MP full frame sensors on their way, there might be enough resolution to simply crop to a 24:65 ratio when stitching is not possible. That would be the "UPan" (for underpan  ::)) way of doing things. Weak corners of the lens could be ignored.

That being said, I would still miss the ability to see the picture in a 24:65 ratio in the EVF to ease composition. I wonder why it is not possible to define user selected ratios in recent cameras featuring EVFs?:-\ Native 3:2 and video 16:9 are standard, with 4:3 and 1:1 being also offered by the most adventurous camera manufacturers. But how about 24:65?

Cheers,

Fabien
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shadowblade

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2016, 03:42:43 am »

I think a digital X-pan is unlikely in the near future, even as a niche product, for a number of reasons, and wouldn't be the same success the film version was.

Firstly, with digital sensors and advances in lens design and manufacturing, it's no longer as necessary.

a) Its prime application would be landscapes and other static, panoramic scenes. Stitching is easy with digital. Even if there are moving components, it's usually possible to isolate each moving component into one individual frame to avoid ghosting when stitching. You no longer need to capture everything in a single frame.

b) Advances in manufacturing make modern lenses much sharper than older lenses could ever be. It's also easier to make a small, sharp lens than a large, equally-sharp lens. A modern full-frame DSLR lens can resolve as much detail as an older lens for a 4x5 camera. An image on a smaller sensor may need to be magnified more than an X-pan image for the same final size, but the smaller lens will probably also be sharper to start with, so it can be magnified more.

c) CMOS sensors are much more sensitive than colour film ever was. You no longer need a 24x65mm sensor just to reduce the noise in the final print. Furthermore, with digital stacking of multiple frames, you can reduce the contribution of random noise to essentially zero.

Secondly, introducing a new system would come with a few big hurdles.

a) Sensor fab. It's no longer a case of drawing 135-format film through the camera two frames at a time. You'd need a new fab plant to handle the sensor - one that could handle much larger wafers. And you'd also need a source of flawless, much-larger wafers to go with it. This may be much easier once they move beyond silicon semiconductors.

b) Lens selection. You'd need to design a new set of lenses from scratch.

That said, I'd still like to see one at some point. A 24x72mm sensor (e.g. two A7rII sensors stuck side-by-side and calibrated to match each other's output) could easily match 617-format film output, both in aspect ratio and image quality. Movable/tiltable sensor for tilt/shift capability and micro-shifting multiple exposure modes, a mirrorless design and rear-mounted, tiltable display for those shots down at ground level or on a tripod above head height. Since this would be a non-action camera with limited intended uses, you'd also only need a few lenses. Not super-fast (it's a landscape camera, after all) but super-sharp. I'd start with a few zooms - 20-50mm/5.6, 50-135/5.6 and 135-400/5.6. Don't really need primes if you're shooting at narrow apertures anyway. Throw in 1.4x and 2x TCs and you'd be covered for every possible landscape from 10-400mm 35mm equivalent. The kit wouldn't even be that large or heavy.

I, too, would welcome a digital XPan!

But besides the uncommon sensor size and ratio, which would drive prices up, I fear the lenses would have to be much larger than the original Fuji lenses, which were using symmetric designs. Digital sensors would have trouble coping with that and Otus-sized telecentric lenses would probably have to be used instead ;).

With the rumoured 70+ MP full frame sensors on their way, there might be enough resolution to simply crop to a 24:65 ratio when stitching is not possible. That would be the "UPan" (for underpan  ::)) way of doing things. Weak corners of the lens could be ignored.

That being said, I would still miss the ability to see the picture in a 24:65 ratio in the EVF to ease composition. I wonder why it is not possible to define user selected ratios in recent cameras featuring EVFs?:-\ Native 3:2 and video 16:9 are standard, with 4:3 and 1:1 being also offered by the most adventurous camera manufacturers. But how about 24:65?

Cheers,

Fabien
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dwswager

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2016, 09:49:18 am »


Footlball; Spain; I thought it was all safely away in France!

;-)

Rob C


I'm from Pittsburgh, PA so I just can't go there!  There is Football and there is Soccer.  Not sure the soccer pitch could have survived Jack Lambert!

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shadowblade

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2016, 10:17:04 am »


I'm from Pittsburgh, PA so I just can't go there!  There is Football and there is Soccer.  Not sure the soccer pitch could have survived Jack Lambert!


One's soccer and the other's basically rugby played with armour.

This is football:



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dwswager

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Re: Kina forecast
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2016, 04:28:50 pm »

One's soccer and the other's basically rugby played with armour.


Rugby, which markedly resembles a game we called "Throw up an kill!"
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