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Author Topic: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?  (Read 24046 times)

David Mantripp

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2016, 04:33:27 am »

of course if they'd just made it non-modal they could have avoided tying themselves in all these bizarre knots... like Quick Develop in Library, the Collections/Folders panel in Develop, etc etc.      I loathe it SO MUCH when, in Develop Mode, suddenly I realise what I want the image title to be, but have to switch to Library to enter it.   

Really, Lightroom is pretty much unavoidable, both only an engineer could love it.
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David Mantripp

john beardsworth

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2016, 04:44:17 am »

Their mistake was to use the word "module" and big obvious tabs, allowing some folk to label Lr as "modal" - doubleplusgood in Macspeak. It's better to see Lightroom's modules as "workspaces" dedicated to particular tasks, just like other Adobe apps except locked down. This encourages a more orderly workflow where you do your keywording etc in bulk, more efficiently and concentrating on that job, instead of flipping back and forth to keywording when you're supposed to be working on the images' appearance.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 06:09:57 am by john beardsworth »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2016, 08:03:17 am »

... I loathe it SO MUCH when, in Develop Mode, suddenly I realise what I want the image title to be, but have to switch to Library to enter it...

Ah, those tragic first-world problems ;)

dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2016, 09:04:14 am »

I think you got carried away with that logic. In other programs, when you make a selection, you are supposed to do only one thing WITH it, collectively: move it, copy it, trash it, etc. LR provides additional functionality, to do things WITHIN the selection.

Not really.  In Br, you can do multiple actions with a selection.  In Powerpoint, I can do multiple things with a selection of items.

I agree the functionality provides some benefits and opens the possibility to even more functionality added later.  I probably would have implemented it via keyboard modification rather than standard behavior.  Say ALT+Click to change the active image within a selection. Then it doesn't change normal convention to select and unselect, it just adds additional functionality to change focus within a selection.  And the key is clicking an item doesn't make a new selection.  If you have 40 images selected and some of them are not on screen, it is easy to click an item and assume that is the new selection because every other program works that way.

Again, my point isn't that this methodology is good or bad, but that it should have been shouted from the rooftops.  In the U.S. Military, it is called a FOOT STOMPER!   A military instructor would stomp his foot 3 times before discussing this to signal it as primary importance. 

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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2016, 09:11:24 am »

of course if they'd just made it non-modal they could have avoided tying themselves in all these bizarre knots... like Quick Develop in Library, the Collections/Folders panel in Develop, etc etc.      I loathe it SO MUCH when, in Develop Mode, suddenly I realise what I want the image title to be, but have to switch to Library to enter it.   

Really, Lightroom is pretty much unavoidable, both only an engineer could love it.

Hey now, I'm a nuclear engineer and I hate modal software. I suspect the Lr development team was divided into functional areas (Library, Develop, Print...) and each got a module and then they cobbled it together.  All they needed to do is implement Br workspaces and let you associate a saved workspace configuration as a default for particular tasks but alow full functionality within any workspace.

BTW, if you have the Photography Extortion Plan, then you have access to Br and ACR.  If you don't need some of the functionality that Lr brings for file handling, then it is identical functionality for tagging, key wording, developing.  I suspect I will use both as necessary.  I still do a first cull in Br.  I see no reason to import 2000 images into the catalog just to delete 1600 of them an hour later!
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rdonson

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2016, 03:37:38 pm »

I still do a first cull in Br.  I see no reason to import 2000 images into the catalog just to delete 1600 of them an hour later!

Why is it easier to load the images to the hard drive then use Bridge to view them and then delete 1600 images than accomplish the same thing using Lightroom?
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fdisilvestro

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2016, 04:15:23 pm »

It is much faster

dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2016, 05:20:43 pm »

Why is it easier to load the images to the hard drive then use Bridge to view them and then delete 1600 images than accomplish the same thing using Lightroom?

1. Br can read the files directly from the XQD or SD card and does not have to move them.

2. Br does not have to create and populate the entries for each file into the catalog.

3. Br itself runs faster the Lr.

Hence, I never have to load those 1,600 once I have done the first cull through card and I only load the remaining 400.

People not using Br for the tasks at which it excels are missing out.  In the last 5 years or so, it has gone from a mediocre file viewer to a great tool. 
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 05:29:14 pm by dwswager »
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fdisilvestro

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2016, 05:45:16 pm »

People not using Br for the tasks at which it excels are missing out.  In the last 5 years or so, it has gone from a mediocre file viewer to a great tool.

I was pleasantly surprised on how Br has improved after not using it for many years. I remember it being slow and mediocre as dwswager says, but now it is a fast and useful tool. I have to admit that it was this thread what made me try Br again.

dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2016, 06:20:53 pm »

I was pleasantly surprised on how Br has improved after not using it for many years. I remember it being slow and mediocre as dwswager says, but now it is a fast and useful tool. I have to admit that it was this thread what made me try Br again.

Unfortunately, Br, unlike Ps and Lr, has not yet been updated with interface scaling for 4K screens.  On Windows, you can use a manifest file to force Windows to scale the application, but you loose the benefit of the 4K resolution because the image area is also scaled.  This includes the Br version of ACR.  So if using Br on a high resolution monitor, open the image in ACR in Ps and not ACR in Br.
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ButchM

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2016, 07:58:44 pm »

Personally, I think you'll find more and more easily organized by visiting Julianne's LR blog

http://blogs.adobe.com/jkost/lightroom-training-videos

Indeed, Julianne has saved me hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours learning Lr and Ps.
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ButchM

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2016, 08:09:10 pm »

Hey now, I'm a nuclear engineer and I hate modal software.

Well, maybe Lr is not for you. That isn't an insult or an attempt to belittle your POV ... however,  millions of users spanning the past decade ... (over 500,000 participated in the first public beta of Lr) ... have adopted Lr without too many issues. At some point you have to wonder if your expectations are possibly out of step with the app in general.

The Library Module in Lr is NOT Bridge ... nor was ever intended to be so.

I am by no means coming from a place where I think Lr is perfect .... my views on where the app falls short are well documented, here and elsewhere ... but as a general RAW image workflow solution ... one has to wonder is Lr the odd duck ... or is your perception of Lr out of step.

Again, I offer that view as possible food for thought, not as an insult with derogatory intent.
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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2016, 09:34:51 pm »

Well, maybe Lr is not for you. That isn't an insult or an attempt to belittle your POV ... however,  millions of users spanning the past decade ... (over 500,000 participated in the first public beta of Lr) ... have adopted Lr without too many issues. At some point you have to wonder if your expectations are possibly out of step with the app in general.

That is what I am trying to figure out.  It is not that I dislike Lr, just not sure I can be boxed into a forced workflow.  Same reason I have owned a large position in Apple since Steve Jobs went back to the company, but use absolutely no Apple products.

I actually think it could be beneficial, but I know that it could be so much more efficient if it was not modal!  In the early days of PCs, almost all software was modal by design.  Almost no software is modal now because we learned it is more productive to allow users options.
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ButchM

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2016, 10:06:50 pm »

That is what I am trying to figure out.  It is not that I dislike Lr, just not sure I can be boxed into a forced workflow.  Same reason I have owned a large position in Apple since Steve Jobs went back to the company, but use absolutely no Apple products.

I'm exactly the opposite. I own no Apple stock ... but I have not owned a computer that was not manufactured by Apple since i purchased my Commodore 64 in 1982/83. Though I have never considered the use of  Apple hardware and/or software or Lightroom as being "boxed in" ... except for maybe the Book module in Lr ... but that is another topic that Beardy would appreciate I not venture forth in ...  :)


Quote
I actually think it could be beneficial, but I know that it could be so much more efficient if it was not modal!  In the early days of PCs, almost all software was modal by design.  Almost no software is modal now because we learned it is more productive to allow users options.

Yes, there is something to that philosophy. I always thought Aperture was much more efficient and less modal in many respects ... though, Lr is, what it is ... and that isn't a bad thing.

I doubt we'll see much change in function or philosophy for quite some time as Adobe seems to have lost the pulse of their user base of late and have taken up guessing, rather than seeking definitive data from their users ... but I digress ...

That aside, I am so much more efficient with a large volume workflow using Lr than I ever could have been with Bridge/ACR/Ps workflow. It may not be perfect or as complete as it should be by now, but the vast majority of users who have taken the time to delve into the details, have achieved a definite comfort level with the workflow that can enhance efficiency to a point worth the investment of that effort.
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rdonson

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2016, 01:39:12 pm »

1. Br can read the files directly from the XQD or SD card and does not have to move them.

2. Br does not have to create and populate the entries for each file into the catalog.

3. Br itself runs faster the Lr.


First, I want you to understand I don't really care if you use Br, Lr or any other tool.  That's your choice, not mine.

1. Lr can read the files directly from the XQD or SD card and does not need to move them.  I often cull on the Import by deselecting files before actually telling Lr move them to disk and create catalog entries.

2. Lr doesn't create catalog entries until you tell it to.

3. Br doesn't do everything Lr does.  I'd be shocked if Br was slower.

I used Br and BreezeBrowser for years before adopting Lr.  When I shoot 1600 photos of a sporting event I can edit them more quickly and then export them to my website more easily than I can with Br/ACR/PS.  YMMV

That's just my $0.02.  YMMV and you're welcome to your opinions.  Choose what works best for you.
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Ron

dtrozzo

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2016, 03:11:38 pm »

newbie here, so take what I say with a grain of salt or a shot of you favorite beverage or both- Longtime LR user and certified- I almost forgot LR is modular, I have been using the keyboard shortcuts of so long- G, E, D, N, C, R,……..

and I do like a browser such as bridge or photomechanic to cull rate and label before adding to my LR library it has been proven in my workflow to be faster.
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2016, 07:01:15 am »

On the subject of synching adjustments - auto-synching is quite sensible for batches of similar pictures. I do a lot of school photography and although I shoot individual portraits outdoors (therefore subtle changes in lighting across a time frame) I can usually synch settings across small batches of pictures.  However it still surprises me how often I clone out a piece of snot around the nose of a three-year old, only to accidentally synch the same setting across another 20 pictures.  The other surprising thing is that it takes me some time to realise the error until I notice a child has a slightly distorted nose or eye........

Jim
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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2016, 09:12:38 am »

On the subject of synching adjustments - auto-synching is quite sensible for batches of similar pictures. I do a lot of school photography and although I shoot individual portraits outdoors (therefore subtle changes in lighting across a time frame) I can usually synch settings across small batches of pictures.  However it still surprises me how often I clone out a piece of snot around the nose of a three-year old, only to accidentally synch the same setting across another 20 pictures.  The other surprising thing is that it takes me some time to realise the error until I notice a child has a slightly distorted nose or eye........

Jim

Oddly enough, for me, this is peculiar to Lr!  I just did this.  I made a local adjustment to slightly desaturate and brighten teeth and of course, the size, shape and position moves slightly from image to image. 

I have done this in ACR for years and never had that problem.  Mainly because of the difference in how images are handled.  I'm hoping as I work more in Lr, I will get accustomed to the non standard nature of selections and how it handle them. 

BTW, in Br/ACR you copy all the settings and then choose what to apply to each image.  In Lr, it appears you choose what to copy and then it applies those to every image.  The other major difference is in how "Previous" is handled.  Because Br/ACR separate the viewing/selection and adjustment functions, merely selecting and viewing files does not change what the "previous" file was.  Only when you go to ACR does it pick up a new "previous" and only if you actually apply the adjustments.  If you cancel out, it still keeps the last accepted adjustments as "Previous".  In Lr, it appears, merely viewing another image makes that the "Previous" image from which adjustments are copied.

Scenario:  You have 10 images that are variations of a studio portrait.  You select the first image and make adjustments.  You then view the next 3 and decide to work the last of those(#4).  In ACR, applying adjustments from "Previous", it applies the adjustments from image 1 (the previous image on which adjustments were made).  In Lr, it applies the adjustments from image 3 (no adjustments).  This is part of Lr trying to enforce it's expected workflow.  It is assuming if you are going to develop, you intend to develop all images that you are viewing.  That you have culled out all that are not going to be developed.

I won't say one is better than the other, just that it would be better over all if they worked the same way!

QUESTION:  Is there a mechanism in Lr to filter images to only those that have custom crops or custom settings (or no custom crop or custom settings)?  I don't see that in the filter bar, but was wondering if I can either put it there or execute that filtering in some other manner.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 09:22:33 am by dwswager »
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digitaldog

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #58 on: May 31, 2016, 10:21:19 am »

QUESTION:  Is there a mechanism in Lr to filter images to only those that have custom crops or custom settings (or no custom crop or custom settings)?  I don't see that in the filter bar, but was wondering if I can either put it there or execute that filtering in some other manner.
You can build a smart collection and find all images that have been cropped. Develop>Cropped is true or Cropped is false.
WHY such attributes for searching are found in smart collections and not the filter bar, and vise versa is another annoying issue with LR for me.
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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #59 on: May 31, 2016, 01:03:06 pm »

You can build a smart collection and find all images that have been cropped. Develop>Cropped is true or Cropped is false.
WHY such attributes for searching are found in smart collections and not the filter bar, and vise versa is another annoying issue with LR for me.

Dog, you're killing me!  I assume building 4 smart collections for Cropped, Not Cropped, Develop Settings and No Develop Settings would slow Lr down?  You guys are supposed to be talking me into Lr, not talking me out of it.

That might be a reasonable way for those with Lr perpetual license and not the photography plan, but it is much simpler to just open the folder in Br and click the "Cropped", "Custom Settings", "No Custom Settings" or "Not Cropped" item in the "Camera RAW" setting area of the filter panel. Especially since the filter panel is content aware and only shows options where there are difference among the images in the content window.  While forcing myself to learn Lr, I've actually done this, then tagged the files with a blue label and then gone back to Lr, resynchronized the folder and been able to find them in Lr using the blue color label.  The Rube Goldberg solution!
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