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Author Topic: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C  (Read 35963 times)

Ken Bennett

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2016, 09:36:00 pm »

I really like the m4/3 lenses, especially the primes. Small, light, sharp. The Oly 45mm f/1.8 is quite good and really tiny. The focus on the Panny 20mm isn't really all that slow and the image quality is nice, but I'd probably get the Oly 12 and 25 instead. In fact, round out the set with 12, 25, 45, and 75, and the three zooms. All of that fits in a tiny shoulder bag.

Full disclosure, I moved to Fuji several years ago, but I still like those little m4/3 lenses. :)
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armand

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2016, 10:44:38 pm »

I really like the m4/3 lenses, especially the primes. Small, light, sharp. The Oly 45mm f/1.8 is quite good and really tiny. The focus on the Panny 20mm isn't really all that slow and the image quality is nice, but I'd probably get the Oly 12 and 25 instead. In fact, round out the set with 12, 25, 45, and 75, and the three zooms. All of that fits in a tiny shoulder bag.

Full disclosure, I moved to Fuji several years ago, but I still like those little m4/3 lenses. :)

As I said, I'm keeping simple and I have on order the 2 zooms and the 17 1.8 plus 45 1.8. I already feel like I'm betraying Fuji (curiously I don't care that much how Nikon feels  ;D ).
It would make sense to have m43 and full frame but I already bought into Fuji and I have no foreseeable plans to give up on them.

JaapD

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2016, 04:55:08 am »

I Really like the Olympus m43 cameras and especially the holy trinity of 7-14mm, 12-40mm, 40-150 PRO lenses. That said, even at 200 ISO I find the sensor noise way too much and here is where Fuji with its X-Trans sensor excels. In the end I have chosen for Fuji.
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armand

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2016, 08:49:43 am »

As I said above, I'm keeping the Fuji. On the downside I never warmed up to the xtrans idea.

I am somehow mentally prepared for the noise in m43, after all it shouldn't be worse than my RX100 which is decent. There is no alternative in Fuji for smaller weather sealed zooms, particularly in the telephoto area. I hope I'll be able to put up with the fiddly buttons on the E-M5 or the articulated screen (I prefer the tilt only). I'm excited though about using the live preview, high resolution mode or touch to focus/shoot.


As for a wide angle lens I'll wait for the DL 18-50 to come out and if it's decent it will serve double duty, wide angle lens and backup.

armand

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2016, 08:57:18 am »

PS. I was also looking to use stabilized primes but the reality is that if you have people in the shot and you are not looking for a ghostly look the faster primes and larger sensor in Fuji will get you farther. Might help for longer telephoto primes but there aren't that many of those.

nma

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2016, 04:01:26 pm »

As I said above, I'm keeping the Fuji. On the downside I never warmed up to the xtrans idea.

I am somehow mentally prepared for the noise in m43, after all it shouldn't be worse than my RX100 which is decent. There is no alternative in Fuji for smaller weather sealed zooms, particularly in the telephoto area. I hope I'll be able to put up with the fiddly buttons on the E-M5 or the articulated screen (I prefer the tilt only). I'm excited though about using the live preview, high resolution mode or touch to focus/shoot.


As for a wide angle lens I'll wait for the DL 18-50 to come out and if it's decent it will serve double duty, wide angle lens and backup.

Hi armand,

You are worrying too much. No system is perfect but it actually seems as though m43 will be a good fit for you. To get its full measure, you have to embrace what it does, not what it doesn't.

The Oly in body image stabilization system (IBIS) yields about four stops advantage when hand-holding a shot. That is true of prime and zoom, alike. You are right that subject movement is still a problem. The only option is to increase the ISO and the shutter speed. As I wrote before, ISO 1600 is still excellent and ISO 3200 is good, both with NR adjusted in the raw converter. Noise will be more of  a problem if you don't give full exposure when you increase ISO.  The solution is to expose to the right. I most often bias the exposure +1. Sadly, I have seen experienced photographers on this forum bad-mouth the IQ because despite their years of experience they don't understand how to use their histogram.

As I wrote before, I find overall IQ better with either the E-M1 or the E-M5ii than I got with the Canon 5Dii. It's not a little better; it is quite noticeable, better color, better highlights, no banding.

The E-M1 is still a viable option. Ergonomically, it feels great in hand (except for the off/on switch) and the  rear display tilts, as you prefer. The E-M1 body-grip is more pleasant than on the E-M5ii. If you go the E-M5ii route maybe consider adding the battery grip. I use an L-plate on both my Oly bodies and I think that does not play well with the battery grip.

Finally, regarding lens speed, there really seems little difference in the offerings for m43 and Fuji. Considering that Panasonic and Oly lenses work interchangeably, there is great flexibility. For example, if you want a fast prime there is the Pana-Leica 25mm f 1.4, a really sweet lens for street shooting and portrait work. The Oly 75 mm f1.8 prime is considered to be exceptional. There are really fast lenses available from Nocticron and Voigtlander, f0.95!
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Telecaster

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2016, 04:43:08 pm »

I am somehow mentally prepared for the noise in m43, after all it shouldn't be worse than my RX100 which is decent.

For me it's not an issue. But then, when all three films were available, I preferred Kodachrome 200 to K64 or 25. I'll often go for a photo with grain/noise rather than one without so long as the grain/noise is monochromatic. IMO texture is Good. YMMV.

-Dave-
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armand

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2016, 05:48:14 pm »

I keep seeing the 75mm mentioned. Here is a comparison with the 90mm from Fuji: http://www.mirrorlessons.com/2016/04/18/fuji-90mm-vs-olympus-75mm
I do consider the 90 to be the best Fuji lens that I used though (didn't touch their "pro" zooms).

And while we are at it what's with the stupid thing in Olympus that you have to buy the lens hoods separately?  >:(

John R

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2016, 08:52:28 am »

I am seriously considering buying into the Fuji system. Since you guys have so much experience with Fuji and mirrorless cameras, I have a question for you.
 Is there a lag between pressing the shutter release and actuation? I do a lot of in-camera motion work and much of what I do depends on a fast actuation after shutter release. I tried a few of the point and shoots and they are mightily slow in comparison. Even tried a Sony 711, and it seemed rather slow. Unfortunately I was only able to use it for about two shots and couldn't investigate whether it was some mode that was causing the slowness or whether I was in electronic mode so couldn't really hear the actuation.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

JR
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2016, 08:53:14 am »

I don't know how many people use off camera lights...but I love the fact that I do get more dof with the olympus sized sensor while still retaining the fast lens speed.  At F/1.8 my light certainly recycle quicker due to being at a lower light levels.  1/320 sync speed also helps make up a bit outdoors.  Most of the time the extra DOF is appreciated, especially when working up close.  I have rarely if ever felt I needed shallower and shallower depth of field than i've been able to produce. 

Shooting these little portrait lenses that are sharp wide open is a joy. 
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Tony
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2016, 08:56:32 am »

Neither the fujis or the olympus have any real world perceptible lag that will ruin your shot... if, like any camera you set it up right. 

Ideally you can opt for the camera not to wait for focus confirmation before firing should you need the shot more than the focus.  You can also separate the focus to another button.  That way the shutter does that, and only that when you need it...fires the shutter.  That speeds things up.  Olympus also has an "extra sensitive mode" that makes the shutter basically hair trigger ready.  It is not a recommended mode.  I don't believe fuji has that option. 

In the older Fuji models, if you were trying to focus on a moving object, sometimes the viewfinder would lag in that moment.  It wouldn't stall the shutter, but it would make tracking something a bit odd.  In reality, the shutter lag is not an issue at all in any of the latest models.
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Tony
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armand

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2016, 03:05:22 pm »

I am seriously considering buying into the Fuji system. Since you guys have so much experience with Fuji and mirrorless cameras, I have a question for you.
 Is there a lag between pressing the shutter release and actuation? I do a lot of in-camera motion work and much of what I do depends on a fast actuation after shutter release. I tried a few of the point and shoots and they are mightily slow in comparison. Even tried a Sony 711, and it seemed rather slow. Unfortunately I was only able to use it for about two shots and couldn't investigate whether it was some mode that was causing the slowness or whether I was in electronic mode so couldn't really hear the actuation.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

JR

Easiest is to set the shutter mode to release only without focus confirmation.
If already in focus I can't say I notice a significant shutter lag.

John R

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2016, 03:45:40 pm »

Well, in-camera motion photography involves prefocus and then switching to manual focus, that is the mode I would use. You don't want the lens hunting while you're moving the camera. Thanks for the information, Tony and Armand.

Tony, I saw on your website that you were experimenting with the multi-exposure mode on the Olympus. How many exposures can one take on one frame? The maximum these days is 10 on the higher end Nikon and Canon DSLR's. My Pentax takes 9. I wish they would do 20 per frame. That would really expand the possibilities for impressionist work. If you want to see what I am trying to achieve with multiple exposures or In-camera motion techniques have a look here:

https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Camera-Impressions/

Thanks again.

JR
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2016, 06:39:00 pm »

Hey John,
           Olympus will allow 2 shots in multi-exposure mode, and you can control how it handles the gain between the two images.  2 modes, first lets you take two images which get combined.  The second mode allows you to first select a previously shot image and then make the second exposure by taking a shot. 

So you can only do two images, and it outputs a raw file.  I assume they were bring in the old "skip the winding of a film frame" feel to this and left it at two which was the most typical for users.

I never noticed...do the Canon's and Nikons really allow up to 10 images to be shot and combined into one raw frame?  I must have missed this feature...or never paid attention to it.
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Tony
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armand

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2016, 08:44:41 pm »

I got about an hour playtime with E-M5 and lenses so I have after first impressions.

The E-M5 with the Oly 12-40 2.8 is roughly as big or heavy as the Fuji X-T1 with the kit lens. I already knew this but actually having in hand gives you a slight disappointment.
The camera feel is ok even without the L-plate with grip but I think it will be quite tricky with gloves to press all those tiny buttons.

The menu is unfriendly to say the least. Hopefully I won't need to dig much into it once set up. The Fuji is much more direct and simple; part is not knowing the camera of course. I rarely read the manual with a camera but it looks I won't get away this time.

Focus speed seemed ok, not blazing fast as I was expecting; no direct head to head comparison yet but Fuji is not that far behind.

The primes are quite small.

AutoISO doesn't seem to be that flexible. I have to look into this as usually I shoot in aperture priority with autoISO so I only change the aperture and the exposure compensation, rarely the metering or the focus mode.


To be continued.

TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2016, 08:53:19 am »

The menu is a monster that just needs a a little bit of familiarity to tame.  Once you set the camera is desired, you never have to dive in again.  Quick tip...if you are setting the menu up... make sure you leave the menu to go back in to shooting mode and then turn the camera OFF.  This will save your settings.  If you remove the battery, or the camera somehow gets shut off before the menu settings store, you will have to redo them.  I can get through setting every item in the custom menu in about 5 - 10 minutes now including making my presets, etc...  Its really not that much.

For AutoISO go to menu, custom settings, Custom menu E ISO. 

From there you can set ISO step, what modes AutoISO is active in, and the range for where Auto ISO works.  You can set its strived for default value and a high limit not to be exceeded. 

I set mine to a default value of 200 ISO (the base) and the highest value as 5000 ISO.  6400 and above is pushed, so I stick with just the real ones.   
From there, the camera does pretty well at honoring the 1/focal length value pretty darn well as needed before raising the ISO.  It balances nicely.  I also keep my exposure compensation at +1 most of the time and then adjust as needed. 

You can also customize your view to show just a plain image and exposure value view, and then turn on highlight warnings with the info button.  This is great if you expose to the right.  You can just leave highlight warnings on and adjust compensation til just highlight clipping or below.  Great raw files. 
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Tony
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John R

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2016, 02:17:41 am »

Yes the higher end Nikons and Canons can do 10 images. Pentax does 9 and was probably the first to initiate multiple exposure capability- that is more than two per frame. It does have limited use, but it is just a software issue for camera companies to include this feature in their cameras.

JR
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armand

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2016, 04:08:39 pm »

Few more thoughts

- if you are a Nikon user the zooms turn the wrong way; at least I could change the focus rotation but it might too confusing to keep them opposite

- noise is not an issue as I was worried before

- I think the metering on the E-M5 ii is underexposing a little

- the primes that I have (17 1.8 and 45 1.8) are quite small

- the L-plate with grip that I got on Amazon has some issues as in the grip is too big and with a wide lens you don't have much room between the grip and the lens barrel; if you take the grip away you are left with a protrusion on the bottom. The RRS grip doesn't seem to have this issues but at 180 it is overpriced no matter what they say; I'll have to decide if I really need a grip, otherwise I can just shave off the excess from the bottom plate that I have

kamma1

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2016, 06:58:05 am »

I can't speak to Nikon, but I've used the ME modes on the Olympus and the Canon quite a bit.  The Canon (5D3 and up) can do 9 images in sequence.  However, you can use a prior image as the starting point, and since that can be an ME image, you can in effect go on until your battery runs out. 

The other big feature of the Canon concerns the 4 different blend modes:  average, additive, bright (from your photos it looks like this is what you are mostly using [the Pentax?], and dark (which afaik isn't available from any other manufacturer)  And since you can start with a prior image, you can also use multiple blend modes in one image.  Add to that changing exposure, and adding a bit of ICM, and the possibilities become very complex. 

The Olympus only has the average mode, which is usual on cameras that have a single 2-image blend mode.  It's pretty limited.  I found the "live composite" feature more interesting - Olympus advertises it for doing star trails, but in effect it's an 'infinite' sequential ME using the bright blend mode, and with superb noise reduction - however, exposure is set throughout, and you can't pause during shooting. 

Here are a couple of images using the Olympus' live composite: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127622296@N07/23822113411/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127622296@N07/25128659972/in/dateposted-public/

And a few ME images from the Canon:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127622296@N07/23843124470/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127622296@N07/22759941744/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127622296@N07/18457616068/in/dateposted-public/

Bruce



« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 07:03:51 am by kamma1 »
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: M43 compared to Fuji APS-C
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2016, 09:26:52 am »

Few more thoughts

- if you are a Nikon user the zooms turn the wrong way; at least I could change the focus rotation but it might too confusing to keep them opposite


- I think the metering on the E-M5 ii is underexposing a little


The zoom thing is a funny point you mention.  I think a lot of people often overlook this.  Coming from Canons, the Olympus zooms work in the same direction.  My transition in all the gear I use is the same.  Fuji's go the opposite way, as do the Nikons, and some others.  I believe this is the same with the lens mount too.  Not 100% certain.  This is one of those things that if you cross systems often enough, its nice to keep in the flow.

All the olympus cameras seem to fare very well with about a stop of overexposure on the meter depending on the subject.  I find this in both evaluative, and center weighted metering.  So in a way, your finding may be correct.
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Tony
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