ipf5000

[Mark D Segal]

Henk, if you are not urgently pressed to buy a printer within the next month, I recommend that you don't buy anything yet and just wait. There will be important announcements coming from HP that could have a significant impact on the range of viable choices for us consumers. Also it is very hard to believe that Canon at least in North America isn't reading all the commentaries and just sitting back doing nothing about it, but they aren't saying anything yet.

[henk]

Henk, if you are not urgently pressed to buy a printer within the next month, I recommend that you don't buy anything yet and just wait. There will be important announcements coming from HP that could have a significant impact on the range of viable choices for us consumers. Also it is very hard to believe that Canon at least in North America isn't reading all the commentaries and just sitting back doing nothing about it, but they aren't saying anything yet.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73831\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark, thanks for the information but HP? I use them for years as a generic printer and Office yet 4 in one but never for fine art printing. Will they present them on the Photokina end September? I will attend that exhibition since it is not far from where I live. Some pre information somewhere on the net?

Henk

[Gary Damaskos]

I read a funny post elsewhere that may have some relavance here -
The poster was responding to specualtion and lamenting from mostly Epson users on the wide format list about how the Canon wasn't proven and good enough.... His post was that "hey I am sick of reading all the complaining speculation from non users and I am too busy printing to get into any more...but I am having a great time with my Canon". Those of us that are users are busy (at least I am - and my enthusiasm(sp) has not gone away (and yes it has only been since mid June for me).

1)Canon iPF5000 users do not yet have an agreed upon easy to use location to share yet. Here is OK but a Yahoo type site would really be easier (and better). The Canon Wide format list is basically an option I suppose, but it is mostly inactive now and occasionally gets spamed. The epson wide format list will accept Canon iPF5000 posts, but it is unknown if that will work long term. Having a list home would really be nice - and having it generally known how to find it would be nice too, and no I am not the one to take that on.

My current interest is learning about the different papers from Canon and Espon and how the gamuts are on my 5000 without buying them all to test! Info on this is scarce and of course sharing is scarce too.

And I could possibly supply a target for the comparison of printers.


And for Tony - Hey just 1 state over from you!

Gary

Hi Andrew & Michael
I have been following both of your revues for over a month now. Every thing started very positively but I get the feeling that the original enthusiasm has disappeared.
Hi,
I agree with Homebrewer that it seems that the  iPF5000 is used but enthusiastic stories stopped.

[Mark D Segal]

Gary,

Yes, the Canon Wide Format list at Yahoo seems to have petered-out. I can't get into the Epson one anymore because after I complained twice to the moderator about spam coming accross it, we had some words about moderating responsibility whereupon I withdrew from the list and he banned me - so end of story - I have no idea what has been happening on that list recently. Anyhow, too much on that list was consumed with issues that people could better resolve by reading the instruction manual and consulting Epson's email tech support.

I think there is nothing that prevents you and other users from starting a new thread on this Forum dedicated to operational experience with the Canon IPF 5000. This would be helpful both to those using the printer and those who are interested in that experience, in order to decide whether or not to buy one.  

Henk,

Yes, these printers are supposed to be announced in conjunction with Photokina. They will be pigment ink, archival printers in various dimensions. I have not been told what the exact model sizes will be, because that is still proprietary information, but it is factual and mentionable that they will be announcing these new models. They will be able to handle a wide variety of media, and I am told they will have many other sophisticated features, but I don't know the details because that is also still proprietary. I agree HP is best known in the public at large for office type machines. However, it so happens that HP has been manufacturing very large format printers for commercial imaging that produce stunning results. They tend to put high quality machinery on the market, so I am very hopeful about these new entrants. I am now using an Epson 4800, which I like very much except for two issues: the paper switching problem and clogging; but I shall not replace it until I see in detail what HP is coming-up with and whether Canon produces fixes for the issues already identified with the IPF5000. I am reliably informed that Epson will not be changing anything on the 4800 model, but they are being very tight-lipped about whether or when they will have a new model replacing it.

[raptorsys]

Canon needs to spend some money and hire some GOOD software engineers and programmers.  What they have now is dreadful, and I meen DREADFUL!


How can a company like this have such terrible programmers?


Brian

[Mark D Segal]

They also need to hire talent who can write competent and comprehensive instruction manuals, because this is a complex piece of machinery and the operational guidance they have produced is equally dreadful. This is a major issue and one of the reasons - amongst others - why I didn't buy this printer.

[Gary Damaskos]

I took the printed menu operations (front) and menu page (back) sheet that came with the printer (~11x17), laminated it, and refer to it whenever I want or need to make something work better. IE: I have some paper that the head was hitting for some reason. I went in and changed the vacuum strenth and raised the head - poof no more problem. This list of menu choices is large. As far as the operational guidance goes, seems from where I sit and what I hear from users, most of us that actually have them are not having any major issues. Perhaps many of us are experienced with printers, some of us just experiment rather than stop, just guesses. In either case I think about half the people that have access to good manuals dont, and common sense seems to have gone a long way for me with this printer so far. I do not understand the other posters comment about the programming being dreadful. For instance I love the plug-in for Photoshop.

Thats all I am done.

Thank you for the idea about the subject heading for this list. Perhaps that will helpf some, but getting word out is still very important.
Gary

They also need to hire talent who can write competent and comprehensive instruction manuals, because this is a complex piece of machinery and the operational guidance they have produced is equally dreadful. This is a major issue and one of the reasons - amongst others - why I didn't buy this printer.
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[Mark D Segal]

Gary, where you say users you are talking to have no major issues - this is interesting. How many users are you talking about?

As for "getting the word out", I guess I find that kind of meaningless, because there is no one "word" to get out. The printer has pros and cons. It's been well-discussed in a number of places. I've seen excellent output from it, and I've seen frustrations. Small samples, but enough to tell me that before I plunk over 3000 Canadian dollars into a venture like this, there are things to be fixed. Maybe my tether for experimenting with things that one shouldn't need to experiment with is shorter than yours. So be it.

[aussiephil]

Gary, where you say users you are talking to have no major issues - this is interesting. How many users are you talking about?

As for "getting the word out", I guess I find that kind of meaningless, because there is no one "word" to get out. The printer has pros and cons. It's been well-discussed in a number of places. I've seen excellent output from it, and I've seen frustrations. Small samples, but enough to tell me that before I plunk over 3000 Canadian dollars into a venture like this, there are things to be fixed. Maybe my tether for experimenting with things that one shouldn't need to experiment with is shorter than yours. So be it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73890\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark,

I still really like my IPF5000, it is doing a great job for me, especially on the A2 Canvas sheets i have been using nearly exclusively lately.

Still on the initial set of cartridges though so i'm not a heavy user by any means.

I seen a head clean the other day after it had sat turned off for around 14 days and was moved from one room of the house to another, seemed straight forward and quick.

For me at least i have found this to be a simple and easy to use piece of printing equipment that i have taken a little bit of time to work out what paper selections to use without actually trying to match types/names to the actual paper in use.
Select the one that enables me to feed from the required source and lays down enough ink to do the job without saturating the paper then profile that combination and write all the settings down.

cheers
Phil

[Gary Damaskos]

Getting the word out was in the context of directing users to a group forum to discuss and share experience. I hope that clarifys that. I know that in June there were ~100 units out. Another wave hit sometime in July. I know some of these people visit various groups, a few post from time to time like me, but I really do not know numbers. Maybe I have read or shared with 5 or 6 other users??

Been on the epson list so long...had several Epsons too, HP also...experimenting always has seemed to be unavoidable to me, I know there are degrees of it. From that the experimenting the Canon requires of me seems little, in fact so far it has been little (albeit a little blind during the first attempts at it, but rapidly turning in to more informed and easier from the experience). The diary of Uwe(sp?) on the Canon seems to be similiar - as in experimenting isn't that demanding. Yes your experimenting fuse is seems shorter with this than mine at this time. We do what we do...
Gary

Gary, where you say users you are talking to have no major issues - this is interesting. How many users are you talking about?

As for "getting the word out", I guess I find that kind of meaningless, because there is no one "word" to get out. The printer has pros and cons. It's been well-discussed in a number of places. I've seen excellent output from it, and I've seen frustrations. Small samples, but enough to tell me that before I plunk over 3000 Canadian dollars into a venture like this, there are things to be fixed. Maybe my tether for experimenting with things that one shouldn't need to experiment with is shorter than yours. So be it.
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[Gary Damaskos]

Phil, Mark -
Phil's statement (though I am not using Canvas) is like my experience. And I still am on my first carts to  (though 1 is down to 20%). My roll unit had to be replaced - some part must have failed because the printer couldn't recognize it being installed. The new unit came overnight and works fine.

Phil - any ideas of your own about where a group might find a home??
Gary

Mark,

I still really like my IPF5000, it is doing a great job for me, especially on the A2 Canvas sheets i have been using nearly exclusively lately.

Still on the initial set of cartridges though so i'm not a heavy user by any means.

I seen a head clean the other day after it had sat turned off for around 14 days and was moved from one room of the house to another, seemed straight forward and quick.

For me at least i have found this to be a simple and easy to use piece of printing equipment that i have taken a little bit of time to work out what paper selections to use without actually trying to match types/names to the actual paper in use.
Select the one that enables me to feed from the required source and lays down enough ink to do the job without saturating the paper then profile that combination and write all the settings down.

cheers
Phil
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73927\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[tonywh]

its been odd having this printer, my own experiance has been very positive. The manuals are garbled, the software slightly strange but having used it for day by day work its excelent, and the commercial benifits are looking very good. Printed 36m2 so far, Y,PC,PGY,GY,MBK,PM, carts are down to 20% the rest at 40%. Over the next few weeks it should get far more usage. I suppose untill it has become a well tested printer and more serious reviews come out there is going to speculation and potential purchaces are wary. My own experiance dosn't match the slightly negative tone discussions on most forums have about this printer.

tony

[tbonanno]

I too am finding this printer to have a lot of strengths.  The more I use it, the more I like it.  Admittedly, Canon has to do a better job on the documentation, but the 16 bit PS plug-in is pretty good and most of the other stuff with the standard driver can be figured out with a little patience.  The media/size selection options and menus really need some work, but once again, its not a disaster or anything, and you can sort it out with some testing and patience.  Some things are very annoying, like having to use A4 or larger paper just to print out "information" from the driver or do alignment and nozzle checks.. Geesh !  Profiles are still a major issue if you aren't set up to make your own, etc.  Like many others here, I come from an Epson wide format background and this is definitely a different beast.

I have been compiling a list of "issues", concerns, etc. in preparation for a review I'll be authoring in the NM ASMP Newsletter.  I think one of the issues is not knowing how well and aggressively Canon will support this product.  Epson's support program is well known by the pro community... Canon's "camera" program is well known and respected as many of us are Canon CPS members.  But Canon's "printer" program is an unknown entity with serious users and pros.  Canon really needs to demonstrate their committment to these new printers by not dragging their feet with firmware and software updates, etc.

Generally though, I'm optimistic.  Time will tell.  But I think I'll be keeping this baby.. no more 4000's, no 4800, just the Canon IPF5000, and looking forward to bigger models down the road (this fall ?).

Tony Bonanno

[martinmitch]

Hello,

The mid summer lull appears to be over and comments are once again developing on Luminous Lanscape concerning the Canon iPF5000 injet printer.
Some of the comments seem trivial from MarkDS because my experiance with this printer contradicts his negative statements,perhaps he should just invest his obsession with money in a savings bank!
As for raptorys let no more be said?

My Canon printer arrived in June and I have been printing since regularly,using a few different papers and getting to know how to use this printer.There are a few problems with the software but it is early days and Canon will rectify this otherwise sales will be affected,but there are ways around such problems,it's fun to work around such issues just apply lateral thinking and the prints roll out of this printer with ease.
I have been an avid supporter and user of various Epson printers for a number of years but decided to buy this printer because  the 12 inks suite me as an artist,amazing to have red,green,blue and yellow inks to print with none of the dead red,yellow green and blue from the Epson 4800 when making coloured prints and the 4800 appears to be a modified 4000 so where is the comparison concerning new printers.`````the Canon iPF5000 is the new leading printer in this class of printers.The colour gamut is larger the prints once you sort out the machine to your particular printing style produces better prints [more detail and better shadow depth] and tonal range.Plus it's cheaper to run.
There is no argument here just go and buy one of these fabulous machines.

[Mark D Segal]

Hello,

The mid summer lull appears to be over and comments are once again developing on Luminous Lanscape concerning the Canon iPF5000 injet printer.
Some of the comments seem trivial from MarkDS because my experiance with this printer contradicts his negative statements,perhaps he should just invest his obsession with money in a savings bank!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74138\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Martin, there are facts and then there is how one deals with the facts. What you think is trivial other people may not think is trivial, and those views are just as valid as yours. My only "obsession" with money is to optimize my expenditure of it because I don't have unlimited resources, and I know that within the next few months there will be some additional considerable options from which to chose. I have a clear perception from hands on experience what the Canon printer does relative to an Epson 4800, I know the strengths and weaknesses of my Epson 4800 extremely well, and I've decided that the optimal solution to the two issues I want resolved may be around the corner, but are not quite here yet. So my strategy and your strategy simply differ. I wish you all the best of continued happy use and good results with your Canon IPF5000.

[martinmitch]

Hello,

Here are web links to reviews of new HP B9180 A3 inkjet printer-looks like another interesting make of ink jet printer to consider instead of Epson.

http://www.neilsnape.com/HP9180_review.htm

http://www.inkjetart.com/news/archive/IJN_07-27-06.html#2

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews_hp_...t_pro_b9180.php

Bye
Martinmitch

[martinmitch]

Martin, there are facts and then there is how one deals with the facts. What you think is trivial other people may not think is trivial, and those views are just as valid as yours. My only "obsession" with money is to optimize my expenditure of it because I don't have unlimited resources, and I know that within the next few months there will be some additional considerable options from which to chose. I have a clear perception from hands on experience what the Canon printer does relative to an Epson 4800, I know the strengths and weaknesses of my Epson 4800 extremely well, and I've decided that the optimal solution to the two issues I want resolved may be around the corner, but are not quite here yet. So my strategy and your strategy simply differ. I wish you all the best of continued happy use and good results with your Canon IPF5000.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74161\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hello MarkDS,

Thanks for the reply but what is the difference if I say:

 "If spring was arriving in Dec' I may notice,but only because I look foreward to the day we have a white Christmas"|.

Please tell us what are these facts you talk about,options you are considering and solutions you wish to resolve relative to inkjet printers?
Most important what is the experiance you have using a Canon iPF5000 and in what circumstances?

All the Best
Martinmitch

[Mark D Segal]

Hello MarkDS,

Thanks for the reply but what is the difference if I say:

 "If spring was arriving in Dec' I may notice,but only because I look foreward to the day we have a white Christmas"|.

Please tell us what are these facts you talk about,options you are considering and solutions you wish to resolve relative to inkjet printers?
Most important what is the experiance you have using a Canon iPF5000 and in what circumstances?

All the Best
Martinmitch
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74679\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Martin, you can pick it all up in previous posts (not only mine, but others too) in this and other threads on L-L and other Forums. Thanks for posting the links to the HP reviews. They are useful. I had seen the InkjetArt one. HP will be announcing more printers either at or before Photokina. It is one of the reasons I put-off buying a Canon - I'm not in a panic to replace my 4800 and the more choice the better - that's my strategy. The two issues I want to resolve are nozzle clogs/ink droppages and being able to switch between matte and glossy paper without flushing ink. And of course print quality at least as good as I have now. Trust me - I've seen comparative output from an IPF 5000 and an Epson 4800 using my own files and both can produce excellent prints - no doubt about it.

Cheers

[martinmitch]

Hello MarkDS

I have looked at many Forums on the Web and on L-L concerning the Canon iPF5000 and the two points you mention nozzle clogs and seperately,flushing inks when switching between matte and glossy papers have been resolved by Canon with this printer.
My experiance during last two months is this printer is economical with ink usage,there are no clogging issues so far [early days],discovered it's better for printer to be left on in sleep mode so it does not perform major head clean if switched on to mains electricity and there is no problem as in Epson 4800 switching between matt and gloss papers there are 12 inks in the Canon.The colour gamut is proving to be greater than the Epson somewhere on the web last week I came across examples showing this point it was difficult for me to understand - color theory language et'c [if have time will try and find web page],this brings me to paper profile developement for the Canon iPF500.
A few weeks ago purchased PrintFixPro to make paper profiles but sent it back and given refund under the 30 days option because it was mechanical profile machine ,one had to press
click for each colour patch 729 clicks for each profile madness was the only outcome.After searching web bought from Chromix    X-RITE Pulse ColorElite   a sensible piece of kit and the software is much easier to use.

http://www.chromix.com/colorgear/shop/prod...CFUBdEAodLjiMFg

The lesson is always buy the best gear at time of purchase!

The one problem with the Canon that cannot be altered is smallest size of paper it will print is A4.
The HP B9180 would solve this problem if I had one they sell in U/K from Sept' 06,but do not have another car to sell for printer purchase.
Next few months will teach myself colour print theory,profile different papers then hopefully write about linearity,delta E and colour gamut in relation to Canon iPF5000.
 X-rite documation is good it arrived with printed manuel.

Bye
Martinmitch

[neil snape]

I am reading this with as much interest as ever. Since the announcements of the Canon printers , and having inside information on HP (some Epson too), I see this is the most exciting year in digital imaging ever.
I saw the early Canon's in December. Then in February, then in March. I saw leaps of progress each time and as expected my statements of Canon eng. are very talented and smart people capable of making these printers work.
That seems to be the case, many of you are saying just this. I missed my chance to print on one in the beginning of July, much to my chagrin.
What I see as an inconvenience is the pains of early models. Yet I don't see this as a sacrifice, merely a hindrance to what are perfectly sellable and usable fine art prints.
Does Epson rightfully deserve it's place in pigment FA printing. You bet.
Are they overthrown by HP and Canon? I think not. Will we have to put up with software, documentation, and some hardware first model problems with HP and Canon? Yes definitely.
Will Epson users be jumping ship immediately? No, no way but they will have options now. Will Epson have to make better products if they want their client base stay with them. Yes definitely, and I do believe they'll do just that. Yet this is the first time they have any serious competition. And it's not just to try to chase the current model. Both Canon and HP are moving the features well beyond any current Epson model. Hence my statement that Epson will be forced to better their models. But please don't think that Epson are not capable of doing so , and doing so quickly.

Let's have fun talking about these printers as we are at a point now where we can all do just that.