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Author Topic: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000  (Read 27428 times)

UlfKrentz

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2016, 04:31:36 pm »

snip
I'd got for Bron but as I said I can't see any prices and for all intents and purposes it's just not available in my region.

Seriously, you´re joking. Just type "Siros 800" and googles second hit is giving you prices from a german retailer. I don´t know Slach in Austria, but again I´m sure you´ll get a price and availability within minutes as he is listed as official dealer on the swiss broncolor site. But by all means, if you feel Profoto suits your needs best and/or is better supported in your region go for it, just don´t say if somebody would have told me…

JoeKitchen

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2016, 05:26:55 pm »

I use to use Dyna Lights and Bowens, and a couple of other brands that I would rent. 

Then I switched to the Profoto Acutes and have never looked back.  I just find the build quality to be spot on, and color consistency is very important to me. 

When I was buying (before the D1s were released), I read two studies pitting the Acutes against the Sensos.  Both found that the Senso had amazing color consistency at the higher power settings, but fell off once you got to the middle and lower settings.  The Acutes were not as consistent as the Sensos at the high power settings, but held their consistency throughout. 

This why I bought into Profoto. 

In the future, I am thinking about adding a few D1 1000s to my kit, and only take one 2400 Acute with one head for my main key light.  Weight is an issue with the Acutes, and my back is not getting any younger. 

With that said, it kind of annoys me that you can not do straight up ceiling bounces with the D1 Monolights.  I consider this to be a serious design flaw, however they are very well built other wise. 

Insofar as Brons, there are a few modifiers Broncolor make which Profoto does not have a great equivalent to.  (However, it is the same thing the other way around as well.)  Too bad, since some of the Bron modifiers I would love to have. 
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 05:31:21 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Christoph B.

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2016, 06:10:10 pm »

@Ulf:

http://www.slach.at

Not kidding at all. Look at it. It's a mess.
I'm not going to rely on a dealer from Germany if I'm in trouble and need some help a.s.a.p. and this is the dealer listed by Broncolor:

http://www.bronkobold.de/broncolor/broncolor-produkte/kompaktleuchten

can't find any prices for the 800S anywhere on these pages.

I was however able to find a listing on another page from Germany (which was not listed as an official Bron dealer) but as the price is in the same range as the ProFoto and it has 200W less and there's nothing to rent locally I wouldn't buy it anyway. I'm not just thinking about what can deliver enough power, I also have to think about jobs where I need more equipment and I don't want to rent a completely new/strange system when I need more heads.

Yes, the short flash duration sounds great, I'm looking into options to pair with the Profoto for HSS (PocketWizard seems to have some sort of HSS-capability with PF) but I wouldn't buy into a monohead if short flash duration was the main reason. A generator would be a much better option.

@JoeKitchen: thanks for the feedback!

I think most monoheads are ill equipped for shots straight up - but I found a neat little trick - on my bigger Manfrotto stands you can mount the spigot horizontally - which means your lights can point anywhere you like - and it's just as stable and a fairly quick process.

I agree, there's always something missing - that's why I'll keep most of my current Elinchrom light modifiers (the Rotalux System is pretty great) but I'm also looking forward to working with the magnum reflector. The shadows look amazing and I'm sure it's going to be a nice light for edgy fashion shoots.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 02:49:44 am by C+B »
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UlfKrentz

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2016, 06:57:52 pm »

@Joe: I see your point and understand your decision against the senso. Actually I never understood broncolor for releasing a series that is not fully integrated into the system with the senso line. But I think they have made great product with Move and Siros, both using and introducing their advanced grafit / scoro CTC technology in a very comparative package. Color consistency and flash duration is in its own category.

@C+B: I did not intend to point you to a german dealer, it was just for a price reference. You might have also taken a look at a well known dealer in USA just for comparison. I´m glad you finally found out the siros are in the same ball park price wise. I cannot speak for other countries but at least in Germany broncolor has a direct contact to the user base and does not sell through retailers. You can get a hands on demonstration in your studio and a quote if interested in any products. Alternately you can just give them a call and get a price list, its just not available online. That´s the same for Briese, Profoto, you name it.
Regarding flash duration, a pack is not necessarily better than a mono head, if you don´t like broncolor, take a look at the Einsteins but be aware these really won´t be available in your country.

gazwas

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2016, 07:03:08 pm »


I think most monoheads are ill equipped for shots straight up - but I found a neat little trick - on my bigger Manfrotto stands you can mount the spigot horizontally - which means your lights can point anywhere you like - and it's just as stable and a fairly quick process.

I think Joe is referring to pointing an open flash tube to the ceiling so you get some bounce and direct light 360 degrees (sort of) around the head. You will struggle to do this with the D1 as the tube is recessed and gives a 77 degree spread by default. Adding one of those optional domes can help as long as you can put up with the terrible way they connect and extra bulk but the tube is not inside the dome and still recessed beneath it so not the same as the lovely Acute or Pro heads.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2016, 07:30:46 pm »

Yes, Gareth, that is what I dislike about the D1s.  Actually, I don't think I have found any monolights that I really like, but I kind of think that is par for the course.  If you want to save weight, and your back, you have to sacrifice in other areas. 

I think I really need to get into high production shoots where I have like 3 assistance and a digital tech running around carrying everything.  But, even so, I know that with the guys who do that work, that that only happens maybe a third of the time.  The rest, they are working on small budgets with one, or two, assistants carrying half the stuff themselves. 

Anyway, the Magnum reflector is pretty awesome.  And if you have some money left over, I would highly recommend getting the Narrow Beam and the 10 degree grid spot, which fits both. 

Both of those reflectors offer so many possibilities. 

The great thing about the Magnum is the inside must have over a 1000 dimples, which keeps the shadow from breaking apart.  In the kitchen image below, the light coming in from the left is from the Magnum, no gel (other than for color) was used. 

Now the Narrow Beam has a polished interior, so the shadows start to break apart, but a 1/8 diffusion over the front (or under the grid) helps that.  However, the Narrow Beam produces an extremely bright center with a dramatically less bright edge.  This is great for me; I can aim the center of the beam to project the furthest into the image and still have that area brighter then where the edge hits.  In the restaurant image, the Narrow Beam is about 5 feet outside the window on the right and is what is producing the light raking across the bar and making the light & shadows on the left. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2016, 07:37:13 pm »

@Joe: I see your point and understand your decision against the senso. Actually I never understood broncolor for releasing a series that is not fully integrated into the system with the senso line. But I think they have made great product with Move and Siros, both using and introducing their advanced grafit / scoro CTC technology in a very comparative package. Color consistency and flash duration is in its own category.


Yes, those Siros look nice.  Nice flash duration too, considering they are monolights. 

At this point though, the only thing that would make me go to the other side would be if I started doing splashes. 

I was going to, but I really love interior work and kind of feel there is no connection between my product work and my architectural work.  So my focus right now is producing lifestyle/product work in well lit spaces (not necessarily well lit like my current interior work, but more like my product work), which is what my Para Umbrella post was all about. 
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 07:43:15 pm by JoeKitchen »
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UlfKrentz

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2016, 07:48:18 pm »


At this point though, the only thing that would make me go to the other side would be if I started doing splashes. 


If you´re working with a handheld camera you quickly learn to value short flash duration...

FelixWu

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2016, 05:58:25 am »

Interesting discussion. I have B1 and D1s and looking to add more lights to my kit so I started comparing the B4 and move. How durable is the Broncolor move anyway? Can it viral the B4 durability wise? B4 looks and feels very heavy duty and I wonder if Move is up to the same standard. Look at the price difference, it's kinda saying they are in different levels. Move does have a very good spec though besides recycling time and recharging time.
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UlfKrentz

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2016, 06:14:03 am »

Interesting discussion. I have B1 and D1s and looking to add more lights to my kit so I started comparing the B4 and move. How durable is the Broncolor move anyway? Can it viral the B4 durability wise? B4 looks and feels very heavy duty and I wonder if Move is up to the same standard. Look at the price difference, it's kinda saying they are in different levels. Move does have a very good spec though besides recycling time and recharging time.

Other than just playing around with one some time ago I don´t have personal experience, but from what I´ve seen it is practically a "mini-Scoro". Only downside would be they don´t power the modeling light on the Pulso heads. Probably to not cannibalize their high end line… But if you´re all into Profoto that´s a tough decision.
There is a review / comparison on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4FT8wGgDl4

Cheers
Ulf

yashima

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2016, 06:44:18 am »

Its a dilemma between Broncolor and Profoto, Broncolor has the best packs but I much prefer Profoto head design. Profoto heads are very compact, fuse seamlessly to the modifiers and the attachment collar makes every head/modifier zoom-able.
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gazwas

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2016, 07:50:53 pm »

Interesting discussion. I have B1 and D1s and looking to add more lights to my kit so I started comparing the B4 and move. How durable is the Broncolor move anyway? Can it viral the B4 durability wise? B4 looks and feels very heavy duty and I wonder if Move is up to the same standard. Look at the price difference, it's kinda saying they are in different levels. Move does have a very good spec though besides recycling time and recharging time.

I've owned and used Profoto mono's and packs but now have Move and Scoro packs and I have no concerns over their durability as they are beautifully made. I've been told the Profoto Pro packs were designed with rental markets in mind (their biggest customers) so massively over engineered as rental gear is not generally well looked after. Not sure what you plan on doing with your lighting kit but a good sign of bron durability is a quick surf on ebay and you will find some very old bron kit that looks and works pretty much as they did when they were new however, in comparison the old Profoto gear works but look very battered. I personally feel at this level, build quality and reliability is a given so a level playing field when comparing between the two unless dropping personal gear out of the back of your car is the usual way you look after your lighting kit.

If I owned B1 and D1's mixing bron battery pack's in with them doesn't make much sense to me as they operate quite differently and modifiers not compatible.
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gazwas

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2016, 08:10:22 pm »

Its a dilemma between Broncolor and Profoto, Broncolor has the best packs but I much prefer Profoto head design. Profoto heads are very compact, fuse seamlessly to the modifiers and the attachment collar makes every head/modifier zoom-able.

Used to think so as well but you very quickly grow to love the gear you use and I wouldn't want to go back to Profoto heads having used all the various bron's available. Pulso heads have a zoomable flash tube that work as the Profoto heads, unilite very compact and MobiLED tiny with LED modelling so great to used with battery packs. The latest bron ring light is super as well even though it gets seldom use. Also wortha mention, every bron head ever made going back to the 70's can still plug into a pack unlike the confusing compatibly of the Profoto head range.
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FelixWu

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2016, 03:40:31 am »

I've owned and used Profoto mono's and packs but now have Move and Scoro packs and I have no concerns over their durability as they are beautifully made. I've been told the Profoto Pro packs were designed with rental markets in mind (their biggest customers) so massively over engineered as rental gear is not generally well looked after. Not sure what you plan on doing with your lighting kit but a good sign of bron durability is a quick surf on ebay and you will find some very old bron kit that looks and works pretty much as they did when they were new however, in comparison the old Profoto gear works but look very battered. I personally feel at this level, build quality and reliability is a given so a level playing field when comparing between the two unless dropping personal gear out of the back of your car is the usual way you look after your lighting kit.

If I owned B1 and D1's mixing bron battery pack's in with them doesn't make much sense to me as they operate quite differently and modifiers not compatible.

I just went and tested the bron move kit at a rental house and found the air trigger is far superior. Also the mounting system of Bron is very counter intuitive to use. Probably a matter of habit.

The only advantage and a big one is its well priced and a lot lighter than the B4. Can move be trickle charged while shooting and keep up on the battery level?

Perhaps one disadvantage on the move is that you have to always choose between recycling Speed and Battery life.

Would be awesome if one day modeling light can switch between day light and tunsteng by one pressing of a switch.
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UlfKrentz

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2016, 04:24:45 am »

Felix, you´re missing their main advantage which is the CTC IGBT cut off circuit that enables CT stability over a wide power range and precise short flash duration due to the cut off of the "lighting tail". Their power range is extremely wide.
Regarding fast recycling / battery life that´s just physics and is a matter of fact. For fast recycling you need suck more amps from the battery which draws them quicker. You can attach and charge while using the pack, to still run out of juice will probably be possible and is a matter of how intense your use is.
That said if you have to buy an entire line of broncolor modifiers and are well equipped with Profoto gear it might be better to stay in the system. Cheers!

FelixWu

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2016, 05:17:21 am »

Felix, you´re missing their main advantage which is the CTC IGBT cut off circuit that enables CT stability over a wide power range and precise short flash duration due to the cut off of the "lighting tail". Their power range is extremely wide.
Regarding fast recycling / battery life that´s just physics and is a matter of fact. For fast recycling you need suck more amps from the battery which draws them quicker. You can attach and charge while using the pack, to still run out of juice will probably be possible and is a matter of how intense your use is.
That said if you have to buy an entire line of broncolor modifiers and are well equipped with Profoto gear it might be better to stay in the system. Cheers!

Yes Bron has the fastest cut off and the shortest FD. I even tested b4 vs scoro pack and Bron marginally comes out on top. That said the B4 is fast enough for freezing any action that I might shoot.

Yeah I got a lot of Profoto sofboxes and some reflectors and a para. the para is what draws me to buy the barehead+ generator light. So I am one foot in the Bron camp ;)
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PhotoKratky

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2016, 08:35:58 am »

@Ulf:

http://www.slach.at

Not kidding at all. Look at it. It's a mess.
I'm not going to rely on a dealer from Germany if I'm in trouble and need some help a.s.a.p. and this is the dealer listed by Broncolor:
Servus...

While I agree that the website is a bit of a mess, I suggest you give Johannes (Slach) a call, or, if you are near Vienna, visit the store: Clickme.

I know him because he is also the Hasselblad rep in Austria, he knows a lot about the stuff he sells and I'd be surprised if there wasn't a chance to try before you buy (Broncolor).
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gazwas

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2016, 03:19:32 pm »

Felix, you´re missing their main advantage which is the CTC IGBT cut off circuit that enables CT stability over a wide power range and precise short flash duration due to the cut off of the "lighting tail". Their power range is extremely wide.

And a biggy is the totally independant power distribution on both channels on Move and all three channels on Scoro so you don't have to deal with funny pack power distrobution ratios between the heads.

Oh dear, begining to sound like a bron rep now and very OT as this originally was a shout up for the Siros mono head.
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FelixWu

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2016, 09:28:17 pm »

And a biggy is the totally independant power distribution on both channels on Move and all three channels on Scoro so you don't have to deal with funny pack power distrobution ratios between the heads.

Oh dear, begining to sound like a bron rep now and very OT as this originally was a shout up for the Siros mono head.

I really want don't mind if a knowledgeable Bron rep commenting here. It's would even better. I like to hear both sides of arguments.

Even Bron is total independent on output settings, which sounds really wonderful, in reality the B4 is really independent enough so no big deal there. Funny thing is I have used pro8 B4 and d4 in the past and NEVER noticed how they affected my shoot in real life. Any one can perhaps give more in depth comment on this where Bron may have a significant advantage?
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gazwas

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Re: Elinchrom ELC Pro HD 1000 vs Profoto D1 1000
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2016, 05:05:39 am »

Lets not get too bogged down by this as when comparing specification on bron's top battery and studio packs to Profoto you really are splitting hairs and neither are short on features. However, for me by far the biggest and most important advantage was when I was shopping for powerful battery location lighting (owned and loved AcuteB2 packs for location) I visited a trade show to look at the then new B4 and was shocked and dissapointed by their size. At the same show I then passed the bron stand to which I knew very little about their product range as they not exactly aggressive with marketing unlike Profoto and discovered the Move 1200L. I waved bye bye to all my Profoto gear and the rest is history.
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