"the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"

[John Camp]

For a start, I wouldn't pay much attention to anybody who is a photography teacher, regardless of how brilliant they may have been thought to have been in their youth. If you're that bloody good, then you work at the job until you retire or are retired. Period. Teaching is for when you can get nothing better to do.

I sort of used to believe that, a long time ago -- met a lot of writing teachers who couldn't seem to sell anything -- but then I met some teachers not involved in "art," and some of them took their teaching jobs with great seriousness: it was what they were all about. I think there are some people who become teachers because they have a certain technical expertise which isn't panning out for them, in terms of money; but there are others for whom teaching really is important, especially in fields where actual or supposed facts are involved, as in most hard science. Those people seem to have a drive to pass on the subject matter of their field to a newer generation so that more advances can be made, and *their* work can be carried on by quality people. So, I no longer make a priori judgments. I need to look at the teacher before I decide.

Edit: This sounds like some form of liberal do-gooder bullshit but really isn't.

[GrahamBy]

As for "projects,"  I do not work on projects.

The recently posted video of a discussion with Lee Friedlander revealed that he doesn't, either.

[stamper]

There seems to be a serious problem with this thread. Isaac has re visited his posts and deleted his content and replaced it with a !. This means that the thread has lost a lot of it's meaning. If other members do the same then what is the point in posting a reply to someone? Quoting is one answer but the original post should still be there for all to see?

[Rob C]

I sort of used to believe that, a long time ago -- met a lot of writing teachers who couldn't seem to sell anything -- but then I met some teachers not involved in "art," and some of them took their teaching jobs with great seriousness: it was what they were all about. I think there are some people who become teachers because they have a certain technical expertise which isn't panning out for them, in terms of money; but there are others for whom teaching really is important, especially in fields where actual or supposed facts are involved, as in most hard science. Those people seem to have a drive to pass on the subject matter of their field to a newer generation so that more advances can be made, and *their* work can be carried on by quality people. So, I no longer make a priori judgments. I need to look at the teacher before I decide.

Edit: This sounds like some form of liberal do-gooder bullshit but really isn't.

With that I can agree: for over thirty years I've personally know a chap, son of old friends - millionaire - who teaches children in a school. He is into the mechanical sciences, and gives them projects such as building solar cars as so forth, which both parties seems to enjoy. He has no financial motivation with it, but derives a great deal of personal satisfaction from opening the kids' eyes to what's possible, what can actually be achieved, even at a lowly school level.

I think the key's in what you wrote about the 'art' distinction: unless one can make it provide a good enough living, then it ends up having little practical worth, which is how I suspect 'art' is considered by the rest of the community not involved in it. I guess writing is much like photography: stars of whom everyone has heard, and also-rans.

Rob

[GrahamBy]

There seems to be a serious problem with this thread.

Does it matter? It's not like this discussion is precious and needs to be preserved for our descendants...

[AreBee]

Rob,

...Son of Hal...

Please don't use a response to me as an excuse to attack others - doing so serves only to demean yourself.

[Zorki5]

Jose, I think your photos help illustrate that perfectly good photos emerge from purely serendipitous, unplanned encounters with landscapes. So ignore Isaac.

+1

It's ironic that a very good illustration of the topic, with actual images, was dismissed as OT. I guess if it was amended with quotes from ancient manuscripts (preferably in Mayan), then it would be OK...

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

There seems to be a serious problem with this thread. Isaac has re visited his posts and deleted his content and replaced it with a !. This means that the thread has lost a lot of it's meaning...

Do I read this correctly? Isaac's posts add a lot of meaning to a thread!? 

[Christopher Sanderson]

There seems to be a serious problem with this thread. Isaac has re visited his posts and deleted his content and replaced it with a !. This means that the thread has lost a lot of it's meaning. If other members do the same then what is the point in posting a reply to someone? Quoting is one answer but the original post should still be there for all to see?

Isaac protested my refusal to split the topic and my moving of the thread to the Coffee Corner. This may have been his response.

Chris

[stamper]

Do I read this correctly? Isaac's posts add a lot of meaning to a thread!? 

The responses to his posts add meaning hence the need for the initial post?

[stamper]

Isaac protested my refusal to split the topic and my moving of the thread to the Coffee Corner. This may have been his response.

Chris

I used to have a forum for angling and part of the forum software was the ability to prevent posters altering their posts after someone had replied. Does this site have the ability to do the same? I think the implementation would be worthwhile?

[Rob C]

Rob,

Please don't use a response to me as an excuse to attack others - doing so serves only to demean yourself.

In the immortal words of Eddie Fontaine in 1958, and I quote: "Ain't nothin' shakin' but the leaves on the trees."

I find this response absolutely as valid as yours, which I quote above, in full.

You had posted a remark:

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=108724.msg897282#msg897282

(Reply No. 58) to which I responded, as best and as honestly as I could (Reply No. 59); if that doesn't suit your agenda, whatever in hell that might be, then too bad. It's your problem, not mine.

Have a good day,

Rob

[Rob C]

I used to have a forum for angling and part of the forum software was the ability to prevent posters altering their posts after someone had replied. Does this site have the ability to do the same? I think the implementation would be worthwhile?

As long as it doesn't pevent one altering spelling/typo mistakes!

;-.)

Rob

[stamper]

As long as it doesn't pevent one altering spelling/typo mistakes!

;-.)

Rob

That should be done right away after posting? I spell check my posts before hand but after posting I sometimes see a mistake. At the end of the day small mistakes are harmless and nobody should in reality worry about them. Unfortunately there are some grammar and spelling nit pickers on here.

[PeterAit]

Teaching is for when you can get nothing better to do.

The above is simply what I believe; I'm sure the vast majority of people will disagree, and that's perfectly okay with me.

The majority of people disagree because it is a truly cosmically stupid and ignorant statement. Tell it to Saint Ansel whose workshops inspired hundreds of photographers over many years (yours truly among them).

The fact is that in any field of art, supporting yourself solely by selling your work or talent is very rare and difficult, and depends as much on luck, contacts, and self-promotion as it does on the quality of your work. I mean, look at the dreck being sold for large amounts in some galleries in NY and elsewhere, or the many photographers making a living with "calendar and greeting card" crap.

Many highly talented artists teach because they love working with students. It can also be a way to pay the bills to allow you to pursue your passion.

It's unfortunate that you did not have better teachers.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Who the hell hal is the Son of Hal?

[AreBee]

Rob,

You had posted a remark:...(Reply No. 58) to which I responded, as best and as honestly as I could (Reply No. 59)...

That surprises me; I've just reread the entire thread, and it appears to be about whether or not Son of Hal can dig himself a deeper hole than the last one.

Perhaps you read it on Mac, whereas I have to make do with Windows.

Do you honestly consider that referring to Isaac as Son of Hal does anything other than demean you?

Do you honestly consider that a computer operating system affects how thread comments on the Luminous Landscape website are interpreted by those who view them?

Is that the best you can do?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

The responses to his posts add meaning...

If you quote the part you are responding to (a good practice anyway), then subsequent deletion doesn't matter.

Sometimes, deleting one's thread is the only way of getting out of notifications for a thread that ran its course and turned into something one doesn't want to follow anymore. This of course makes sense if one posts one or two rather inconsequential remarks. If one posts a lot of supposedly meaningful comments, then deletes them, it might come across as petulant.

[Peter McLennan]

The majority of people disagree because it is a truly cosmically stupid and ignorant statement. Tell it to Saint Ansel whose workshops inspired hundreds of photographers over many years (yours truly among them).

The fact is that in any field of art, supporting yourself solely by selling your work or talent is very rare and difficult, and depends as much on luck, contacts, and self-promotion as it does on the quality of your work. I mean, look at the dreck being sold for large amounts in some galleries in NY and elsewhere, or the many photographers making a living with "calendar and greeting card" crap.

Many highly talented artists teach because they love working with students. It can also be a way to pay the bills to allow you to pursue your passion.

It's unfortunate that you did not have better teachers.

"Teaching is for when you can get nothing better to do."


It's an aphorism among teachers that the teacher learns as much as the student.

Certainly true in my case.  Hardest job I've ever had.

[Zorki5]

Isaac protested my refusal to split the topic and my moving of the thread to the Coffee Corner.

Well, you didn't just "split" the topic (as you did with recent HCB discussion), you also locked the original thread.

IMHO actually splitting it would have been more appropriate.