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Author Topic: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?  (Read 23934 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2016, 12:25:07 pm »

..............  Personally I don't care what they call these papers  or how much they want to take credit for their development as long as they keep the damn prices down.

john

You can check the B&H website and see. I think you are making a very good point about the pricing. In this context price could be one substantial determinant of what to choose between several offerings.

Oh - and good you made contact with Ernst. I think it would be great to get an early reading on reliable third-party evidence concerning OBAs.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Paul2660

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2016, 12:27:21 pm »

Pricing is about the same per foot if it is truly just re-badge Canon product.  Not sure why this move makes much sense for Epson, but I guess 2 sources for the same thing is not all bad.

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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deanwork

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2016, 01:25:28 pm »

I don't want to bad mouth Epson. They are doing the right thing by promoting these papers with their inks. I imagine their engineers told them, look how great these papers are with our inks and see why everyone is using them. But then the sales dept gets involved and have to take credit for everything. Why couldn't they just do as Canon did with Hahnemuhle and say hey we are a a great printer company that is partnering with a great paper company who has been making great products since the Renaissance and leave it at that, rather than trying to pretend they invented the coatings, etc.

There is always chance that Epson is buying a big stock in Canson since Canson left Arches, or buying them out totally, which is always a possibility. Who knows.

You guys do know that Canson made some changes to their coating about a year or so ago as well. The Platine became brighter, and I  believe sharper as well, and they did some changes to the coating of rag photographique as well, and the dmax went down slightly. I don't know why that change occurred.  So when Ernst does white point evaluations he needs to compare Canson's more recent coatings with the new Legacy. The old Platine was fairly warm and flat and I didn't use much of it then.

john

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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2016, 01:53:24 pm »

I don't want to bad mouth Epson. They are doing the right thing by promoting these papers with their inks. I imagine their engineers told them, look how great these papers are with our inks and see why everyone is using them. But then the sales dept gets involved and have to take credit for everything. Why couldn't they just do as Canon did with Hahnemuhle and say hey we are a a great printer company that is partnering with a great paper company who has been making great products since the Renaissance and leave it at that, rather than trying to pretend they invented the coatings, etc.

There is always chance that Epson is buying a big stock in Canson since Canson left Arches, or buying them out totally, which is always a possibility. Who knows.


john

"Who knows" is exactly right - other than Epson. It's good you prefaced your commercial analysis with the words "I imagine" so we are better positioned to evaluate the reliability of those hypotheses. And I agree with you - if they were just repackaging/rebranding a Canson paper it would have been really easy and respectable for them just to say so. Which leads me to believe therefore that maybe Epson is telling the truth and the suspicions are misplaced. Save for the appearance of seriously reliable alternative information I shall take Epson at their word and focus my attention more productively on what the papers do. I think we all agree that is the important bottom line.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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deanwork

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2016, 02:33:52 pm »

Yes, and in the end, they are Canson media, possibly with some VERY subtle tweaking, but probably not even that. You just don't pull papers like that out of your hat overnight. It's not that complicated, Canson has the world class media and Epson has the world class distribution network. It's a good match.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 02:58:38 pm by deanwork »
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disneytoy

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2016, 03:16:21 pm »

If you search Epson Legacy on YouTube there is an interview with the president in charge of this paper, and he says how long and hard he searched throughout Europe to find a paper mill to make these papers. He he clearly states he spent 6 month.
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disneytoy

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narikin

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2016, 03:55:30 pm »

It's not a project, it is a product, and it's Canson's product they are selling. And my feeling is, good for them! They have finally got in bed with the best and it should pay off in sales and make killer prints with their new inks, and they will last.

Oh, yes I am very happy to see it live on as Epson 'Legacy Platine' too. Was worried when I heard of Canson being in trouble /for sale - so it's great they have a (the?) major brand distributor now. It is a truly great paper, and good to know it will live on.

Can't think why they don't have the 60" roll size too though. Canson make that, so it's a surprise not to see it in the Epson line too.

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rdonson

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2016, 06:39:04 pm »

Yes, and in the end, they are Canson media, possibly with some VERY subtle tweaking, but probably not even that. You just don't pull papers like that out of your hat overnight. It's not that complicated, Canson has the world class media and Epson has the world class distribution network. It's a good match.

There sure is a price difference between Epson Legacy papers and the equivalent Canson papers if they are indeed the same.
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Regards,
Ron

narikin

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2016, 12:42:14 pm »

There sure is a price difference between Epson Legacy papers and the equivalent Canson papers if they are indeed the same.

You mean in which way?

For me, after the usual back and forth haggle*, Canson rolls are cheaper, but currently with the rebates, Epson is about 10% cheaper, assuming you are ok with buying 3 rolls at a time. My sense is we are paying too much for the Epson Legacy material right now, and it will drop down in price per roll, to below Canson, once the 3 for 2 offer expires.

(* fed up with the haggling nonsense. Wish someone just had prices that were clearly set at the bottom rung, and that was that... assuming shipping and returns policy is similar, etc)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 12:48:21 pm by narikin »
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rdonson

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2016, 05:24:22 pm »

Sorry, I was comparing prices of various sheet sizes between the two on B&H.  Canson came out quite a bit less expensive.
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Ron

stockjock

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2016, 03:14:38 am »

Sorry, I was comparing prices of various sheet sizes between the two on B&H.  Canson came out quite a bit less expensive.

Right at the moment Shades of Paper and Atlex have significantly lower prices on the Legacy papers than B&H or Adorama.  With the rebates the Legacy Platine and Fibre Rag are quite a bit cheaper than the Canson equivalents.  I would suggest stocking up.
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disneytoy

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2016, 03:31:51 am »

Ink and media wholesalers had the best price on my Legacy Baryta at 44" $289 and 24" $155. B&H has the 44" roll for $349 so that is a big savings. Also they don't charge shipping. I'm in Cali and they are im Arizona so no tax for me.

I'm going to order some Platine, before the Epson rebate is over.
.
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narikin

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2016, 10:37:33 am »

Right at the moment Shades of Paper and Atlex have significantly lower prices on the Legacy papers than B&H or Adorama.  With the rebates the Legacy Platine and Fibre Rag are quite a bit cheaper than the Canson equivalents.  I would suggest stocking up.

Rolls of 44" Legacy Platine work out about $225 each after you buy 3, and jump through all the rebate hoops correctly to get your refund.
Rolls of 44" Canson Platine can be had for around $270 each. (ymmv)

So it's a saving of $45 per roll, a net 17% discount. Worth having, but not huge. This assumes you want/need 3 rolls, pay no sales tax (you won't get that back on 3rd roll) and the rebate process goes smoothly.

I'm going to buy some, but not go crazy. The offer isn't that incredible, and in past offers, I've bought too many rolls that I never really needed, and turned out to be a waste of money. So... easy does it!
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stockjock

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2016, 03:14:41 pm »

Ink and media wholesalers had the best price on my Legacy Baryta at 44" $289 and 24" $155. B&H has the 44" roll for $349 so that is a big savings. Also they don't charge shipping. I'm in Cali and they are im Arizona so no tax for me.

I'm going to order some Platine, before the Epson rebate is over.
.

They have some pretty spectacular pricing and they say they are an " Epson Authorized Professional Imaging Reseller".  Thanks for the info.
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disneytoy

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2016, 05:00:05 pm »

I'm not at all affiliated with ink and media wholesalers. Just been ordering from them for awhile. My secret is I check the web for the lowest price, even if they charge shipping. Contact their CS and they always match the price, again for me no shipping or tax. I almost always get my order next day.

I believe all the big boys just drop ship from Epson's regional warehouses.

I'm debating if I should get the Platine in 44" and 24". How popular is that with customers?

I got the Baryta because I had several people ask for it before. My selection is limited.

Max
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narikin

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2016, 11:04:59 am »

I'm not at all affiliated with ink and media wholesalers. Just been ordering from them for awhile. My secret is I check the web for the lowest price, even if they charge shipping. Contact their CS and they always match the price, again for me no shipping or tax. I almost always get my order next day.

Good to know about this company - htey are indeed cheaper than the regular people SoP, Atlex etc. seems I overpaid. Last time I use any of them.

through your supplier you can get 44" Legacy Platine rolls for under $200 after rebates.

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disneytoy

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2016, 08:33:20 pm »

I just ordered some Legacy Platine from ink and media. One other tip, is you get essentially 1% back in points. I had 750 points applied to my order today and got an additional $7.50 off. A little more savings.

Hopefully I get my Platine delivery tomorrow:-)
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eleanorbrown

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2016, 03:50:26 pm »

Well as a very long time Epson and Canson user I of course ordered the Legacy sample pack of new papers.  I have just finished testing the Epson Legacy Platine vs Canson Platine and Legacy Baryta vs Canson Baryta on my Epson 7900 printer.   This is a joke.....First Canson and Legacy profiles are interchangeable.....papers are the same (I even looked at the surfaces under an 8X loupe).  Same everything....exact same print out under careful examination.  Possibly Epson made some changes that were so minute that they could make the new claim of "all new papers, etc etc etc etc....Ridiculous.  Well the good news is that I can keep using my supply of these Canson papers and not have to purchase the new legacy papers.  I still love the Epson Exhibition Fiber so will continue to use that also.  I am getting ready to switch to matte black ink and do comparison of Legacy  Fiber vs Canson Rag Photographique.  (I have a feeling I will end up staying with the lovely Epson Hot Press papers and the Canson Rag.  Will also compare the Legacy Etching against  equivalent papers that I already have in stock (Hahnemuhle, Museo, etc).  More Later.  Would love to hear the experience others are having with these new papers.  Thanks! Eleanor

PS...just finished testing the Legacy Matte papers against their counter parts.  Only paper I can recommend over other papers is the Legacy Etching.  It is very lovely with a really wonderful surface texture....very elegant....I would use this over Epson Cold Press, Hahnemuhle Museum Etching and Museo II without hesitation. 

« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 04:51:28 pm by eleanorbrown »
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Eleanor Brown
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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2016, 05:36:01 pm »

Thanks for your report, Eleanor.  Your observations are confirming what many of us have suspected - that the "new" Epson Legacy papers are just a re-branding of the longstanding Canson counterparts.  I'm guessing the Epson Legacy Etching is actually Canson's Edition Etching Rag, in a new box.

Lots of marketing hyperbole, in other words.

Which is fine.  I'm actually quite a fan of Epson's Signature line of papers.  It's high OBA content notwithstanding, I very much like Exhibition Fiber.  And the four Hot and Cold Press papers are my go-to for matte presentations.  I also use Canson's Baryta Photographique, Platine Fibre Rag, and Edition Etching Rag quite a lot.  I'm not at all disappointed that they are available under the Epson label, particular if the rumors of Canson's financial difficulties are true.  I would deeply hate to lose Platine Fibre Rag, a truly special paper.

Thanks again.
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