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Author Topic: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?  (Read 23935 times)

narikin

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Hi printing experts - can I use my Canson Platine custom profiles on Epson Legacy Platine?  Seems like I should be able to, but thought it's worth asking the brainiacs here...
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2016, 07:48:29 pm »

The best way of finding out whether it works for you is to try it with several different kinds of photos - look for shadow detail, colour rendition, etc. Or try it with a good printer test image.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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hugowolf

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2016, 09:03:17 pm »

Interestingly, Epson have profiles available for several printers, but not all. 3880, 7900, 9900, the new SC-P series, but not, for example the 7890 or 9890.

Brian A
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narikin

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2016, 12:26:44 pm »

Interestingly, Epson have profiles available for several printers, but not all. 3880, 7900, 9900, the new SC-P series, but not, for example the 7890 or 9890.

Brian A

yes it's strange - they have profiles for 3880 but not 9880 or 11880, which most people find are interchangeable. 
I'll give that a try on my next run.
still suspect that Canson Platine and Legacy Platine profiles will be interchangeable.

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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2016, 12:29:32 pm »


.........still suspect that Canson Platine and Legacy Platine profiles will be interchangeable.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. Please let us know once you've tried.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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disneytoy

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2016, 06:50:28 pm »

Perhaps someone who speaks German can check the Epson site if they have the Legacy 9890 profiles?
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disneytoy

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2016, 02:48:39 pm »

Bozos at Epson CS said because my 9890 "predates" the Legacy paper they don't have profiles. My printer is less than one year old. The Legacy came out in January. Everything predates the Legacy paper.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2016, 03:28:29 pm »

Bozos at Epson CS said because my 9890 "predates" the Legacy paper they don't have profiles. My printer is less than one year old. The Legacy came out in January. Everything predates the Legacy paper.

When you get obviously unhelpful answers like that, it is generally a good idea to have the question escalated to the next level of support. Anyhow, FWIW, my understanding is that only the sample packs are generally available, the rolls somewhat available, and the sheet formats (other than sample packs) not yet available. (The B&H website says "Special Order 7-14 business days.) I would expect Epson is in the process of getting the profiling done for the large number of printer models in which customers may use this paper. Just taking some time. I can't imagine that in the soonest feasible time period they will not have profiled these papers for every professional printer in their current line-up.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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narikin

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2016, 03:32:20 pm »

Bozos at Epson CS said because my 9890 "predates" the Legacy paper they don't have profiles. My printer is less than one year old. The Legacy came out in January. Everything predates the Legacy paper.

Just go to Cansons website and download their Platine profile for your printer, it will work fine. I've been using my custom Canson Platine profile, and it's working great.

Comparing the two Platine's, I do think they have improved the white point of the Legacy paper a bit from Cansons original version, which is worrisome. (OBAs). Ernst's spectra viz readings should answer this.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2016, 03:44:17 pm »

Just go to Cansons website and download their Platine profile for your printer, it will work fine. I've been using my custom Canson Platine profile, and it's working great.

Comparing the two Platine's, I do think they have improved the white point of the Legacy paper a bit from Cansons original version, which is worrisome. (OBAs). Ernst's spectra viz readings should answer this.

The information on the sample pack clearly says that Epson Legacy Platine is "OBA free".
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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disneytoy

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2016, 04:11:49 pm »

I order my paper in 24" and 44" rolls from Ink and media wholesalers. They have it in stock and I get it delivered next day .

Just the Legacy Baryta so far, was going to order some rolls of the Plantine to offer to my customers.
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deanwork

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2016, 06:26:58 pm »

The Platine has been improved long before they made the deal with Epson. The white point is indeed brighter, and done with pigments not oba. I love this paper. It is what I have always wanted. The surface texture is so perfect, it is much sharper than anything I've ever used, and it is fantastic for bw and color. They really took the finest texture of the best analogue media and really did it right. I haven't had any of the curling problems or head strikes either, even on the end of the rolls. The gloss differential on the Canon printers is also almost nonexistent, and better than the original Platine.

As for profiles, all I know is the Legacy Fiber, which is the Canson Rag Photographique, is the same Canson paper I've been using. I just printed reprints from two weeks ago and they were exactly the same. I have no reason to believe that the Etching paper, the Platine, and the Baryta are all the same exact papers as well. All of these are the best papers I've ever used. I suggest you guys who are not making your own profiles download the Canson profiles on their website for these papers which is the next best thing to making your own.

john



 ;)
The information on the sample pack clearly says that Epson Legacy Platine is "OBA free".
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narikin

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2016, 07:48:07 pm »

The information on the sample pack clearly says that Epson Legacy Platine is "OBA free".

Yes, well I hope that is indeed the case. We've seen papers claiming that, and turning out to have 'residual' OBAs in the base material.

Keen to know what the magic 'pigments'are that make the base whiter, but hope it's true. Best answer would be they have upped the quality of the base cotton, and that's what's lifted the white point.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2016, 08:04:36 pm »

Yes, well I hope that is indeed the case. We've seen papers claiming that, and turning out to have 'residual' OBAs in the base material.


There are ways of finding that out (Ernst Dinkla Spectrum Viz, black light lamp), which would surface sooner or later if present. BTW, they do not make this claim for the Legacy Baryta, so I would assume at least a modest amount in the paper base; more than that - frankly, I wouldn't expect any info on the secret sauce from source about any of these papers.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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deanwork

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2016, 08:21:34 pm »

The Canson Baryta has always had oba. These four legacy papers are Canson, repackaged by Epson. The Rag Photographique and Platine are not the only media ever made that is significantly whiter without dyes. Breathing Color has done this for many years with their canvas products.

If you want to test that just put a sheet under a black light. If it glows it has oba.

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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2016, 08:27:30 pm »

The Canson Baryta has always had oba. These four legacy papers are Canson, repackaged by Epson. The Rag Photographique and Platine are not the only media ever made that is significantly whiter without dyes. Breathing Color has done this for many years with their canvas products.

If you want to test that just put a sheet under a black light. If it glows it has oba.

I expect Epson would take issue with you on the use of the term "repackaged", because it kinda contradicts what they say on the back of the sample packs about how these papers came about: "Working with famous European paper makers, art galleries and chemical engineers, Epson created the Legacy Paper line to be the finest papers available." This sounds to me like a lot more than repackaging, though clearly they didn't start from scratch. I'll be having more to say about similarities and differences in my review of these papers, now under preparation.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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narikin

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2016, 11:49:15 am »

I expect Epson would take issue with you on the use of the term "repackaged", because it kinda contradicts what they say on the back of the sample packs about how these papers came about: "Working with famous European paper makers, art galleries and chemical engineers, Epson created the Legacy Paper line to be the finest papers available." This sounds to me like a lot more than repackaging

Gee Mark, surely you recognize marketing hubris (polite word, there are others..) when you see it!

look forward to reading your review, and to Ernst giving us Spectrum Viz analysis - that is the best detective tool out there for finding out who repackages other brands as theirs.
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deanwork

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2016, 12:13:01 pm »

Just spoke with Ernst yesterday. I'm sending him samples of the Canson papers that are being distributed by Epson. Yes indeed we will find out very soon. Like I said I just printed a body of 30x40s on the Legacy Fiber and it is exactly the same media I used two weeks ago, the Canson Rag Photograhique. Why would they call their Platine, Platine? Platine comes from a long tradition of Canson rag media used for Platinum printing and they developed the ink receptor coating for inkjet and did one hell of a job.

Epson can take credit for it all they want but I"m sure they just made the arrangement with Canson because Canson had just split with Arches and Epson didn't have any media that came remotely close to what they were doing.  Their "signature worthy" exhibition fibre is so loaded with cheap dyes that it a sad product and many peoples work will turn gray in a few years.  Personally I don't care what they call these papers  or how much they want to take credit for their development as long as they keep the damn prices down.

john




Gee Mark, surely you recognize marketing hubris (polite word, there are others..) when you see it!

look forward to reading your review, and to Ernst giving us Spectrum Viz analysis - that is the best detective tool out there for finding out who repackages other brands as theirs.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2016, 12:17:58 pm »

Gee Mark, surely you recognize marketing hubris (polite word, there are others..) when you see it!

look forward to reading your review, and to Ernst giving us Spectrum Viz analysis - that is the best detective tool out there for finding out who repackages other brands as theirs.

Narikin,

Yes, I wasn't born yesterday; but there is a boundary between marketing hype and flat-out misrepresentation. Maybe I'm just blissfully naive (but I don't really thing so), however I expect Epson to know and respect that boundary. There is no mileage in it for them, for the paper mills and for any other companies with whom they may be collaborating on this project. Think of the industry relationships involved and whether Brand A would consider it commercially acceptable or even legal for a mill or a coating plant to share their recipe with newcomer Brand B, unless by prior agreement (which wouldn't make any sense outside of a merger or acquisition context). I think the difficulty some people may be having is that the technology behind these papers is held by only several mills and coating plants and has matured to the point that each time a new variant is cobbled together, the differences between them can be really subtle (to the point that profiles can be interchangeable without seeing any remarkable problems with the prints), so this could lead some to believe the recipes are simply copied or repackaged, which may in fact not be the case. Anyhow, this is somewhat tangential to the OP's question, so I shall leave it at that.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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deanwork

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2016, 12:23:54 pm »

It's not a project, it is a product, and it's Canson's product they are selling. And my feeling is, good for them! They have finally got in bed with the best and it should pay off in sales and make killer prints with their new inks, and they will last.





Narikin,

Yes, I wasn't born yesterday; but there is a boundary between marketing hype and flat-out misrepresentation. Maybe I'm just blissfully naive (but I don't really thing so), however I expect Epson to know and respect that boundary. There is no mileage in it for them, for the paper mills and for any other companies with whom they may be collaborating on this project. Think of the industry relationships involved and whether Brand A would consider it commercially acceptable or even legal for a mill or a coating plant to share their recipe with newcomer Brand B, unless by prior agreement (which wouldn't make any sense outside of a merger or acquisition context). I think the difficulty some people may be having is that the technology behind these papers is held by only several mills and coating plants and has matured to the point that each time a new variant is cobbled together, the differences between them can be really subtle (to the point that profiles can be interchangeable without seeing any remarkable problems with the prints), so this could lead some to believe the recipes are simply copied or repackaged, which may in fact not be the case. Anyhow, this is somewhat tangential to the OP's question, so I shall leave it at that.
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