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Author Topic: i1Pro weirdness & fix  (Read 16889 times)

AlterEgo

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2016, 10:31:38 am »

after 75 minutes of heating
how did you manage to keep the lamp burning for 75 minutes uninterrupted ?
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NickXavi

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2016, 12:18:08 pm »

If my lamp, today have an usage time of 8.762,2 second, how can you think that before my test I heated the lamp during 4500 seconds (75 minutes)?

Hi...Hi.

Good luck.
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CG277, P800, i1Pro 2

AlterEgo

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2016, 02:48:14 pm »

If my lamp, today have an usage time of 8.762,2 second, how can you think that before my test I heated the lamp during 4500 seconds (75 minutes)?
then what do mean exactly by "after 75 minutes of heating" which was "made yesterday" ?

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AlterEgo

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2016, 03:14:34 pm »

So if you do lots of spot measurements with your i1Pro's, and get the
impression that your accuracy and consistency of measurement is getting
squirrelly, you may be right.

I tested my i1Pro2 using BabelColor PatchTool (non XRGA mode) - one calibration and then imitating manual spot reading patch by patch on a calibration tile with ~2 sec delay between readouts

this is the file with the 300 sequential spot readouts = attached


L* =



a* =



b* =


« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 03:54:24 pm by AlterEgo »
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2016, 03:30:54 pm »

Could there be the possibility of manufacturing differences between halogen bulbs to account for why some don't have this warming problem? I don't know how quality control is managed in QH lighting.
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Doug Gray

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2016, 03:52:06 pm »

The I1 is much more stable reading the same spot but I've noticed variations averaging about .10 dE going up to about .5 dE on more saturated colors in different positions of the same printed patch. Also seems to vary based on paper texture (glossy, pearl, semi, matte...).

Anyone know of products that make v4.3 profiles using the new Float32Number based LUTs? They would seem to offer much less inversion error in BtoA -> AtoB and enhance proofing accuracy.  OTOH we also need products that can utilize these new types.
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AlterEgo

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2016, 05:14:40 pm »

now do the same again __BUT__ with BabelColor PatchTool "lamp restore" done once just before the series of 300 manual, patch by patch measurements (of the same calibration tile - click were by mouse, not through button on the device - so position on tile was pretty the same, just in case)

the measurements attached

L* = the same scale as above - see the difference :



a* = the same scale as above - see the difference :



b* = the same scale as above - see the difference



funny that a* stays OK, but b* still drifts...
« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 05:32:28 pm by AlterEgo »
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AlterEgo

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2016, 05:42:58 pm »

quote from PatchTool manual

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AlterEgo

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2016, 06:50:18 pm »

now with Spectrolino + argyll spotread, 400 readouts off the calibration tile (a different one from i1Pro2 naturally)

Quote
Argyll 'V1.8.3' Build 'MSWin 64 bit' System 'Windows V10.0 SP 0'
Device:     Spectrolino
Serial No:  17984
Part No:    36.55.52
Prod Date:  9/8/2004
SW Version: 1.68

the data attached

L* =



a* =



b* =

« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 07:05:16 pm by AlterEgo »
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Doug Gray

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2016, 07:11:53 pm »

FWIW, I saw a .1 dE76 shift on my 10 y/o I1 after doing the bulb renew. Considering how old the thing is I was half expecting more. They are solid instruments.
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AlterEgo

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2016, 07:29:31 pm »

the same Spectrolino, after some rest, reset, couple of recalibrations

the data attached

L* =



a* =



b* =



« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 07:45:06 pm by AlterEgo »
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NickXavi

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2016, 09:09:22 am »

Attached a screenshot of i1Profiler comparing two sets of 30 measurements:

Measurement A: 10 patches measured patch by patch, from cold after calibrating, plus 10 patches measured 10 minutes after without recalibration, plus 10 patches measured 45 minutes after without recalibration. Total 30 patches.

Measurement B: 30 patches continuously measured, patch by patch after calibration, the instrument measured from cold and followed with 2 second pauses between measurements.

All against the tile.

De 2000 standard error: 0,11
De 2000 maximum error: 0,33
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GWGill

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2016, 07:27:36 pm »

First of all, on all comparisons the Delta E 2000 is always less than 0.1, not 0,01, sorry for the mistake.
Right - that matches my experience of an instrument that is in good shape, and is within the manufacturers short term repeatability specifications.

The phenomenon I'm referring to takes the instruments outside their specifications. Subsequent experimentation with my i1Pro2  indicates that something like short strip reads (1-5 seconds lamp on time) with about 5 seconds off time between strips is quite effective in developing this behavior.
Quote
** Have you checked your i1Pro with i1Diagnostics?, this software when checking the instrument also modify some parameters if necessary: http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?Action=support&ID=766
As far as I can see (looking at how i1Diagnostics works, and what operations it performs over USB), it doesn't do anything special - just operates the instrument like any application does. I presume it  analyzes the resulting measurements in a way that normal applications do not, but it doesn't appear to modify the instrument in any way.

The report "Reflectance drift test: Successful" is intriguing - perhaps this test is looking for exactly the type of thing I've noticed >

So I tried "dirtying up" my i1Pro2 - 50 x 2 second measures with 5 secs between increased the thermal drift from 0.08 DE to 0.18 DE, and then ran i1Diagnostics on it.

But it still reported "Reflectance drift test: Successful". So either it's not testing for this, or it's error threshold is quite high.

After 60 seconds of "cleaning", it was back to 0.07 DE thermal drift.

[ Interestingly, I tried "dirtying up" one of my i1Pro RevA's, and couldn't budge it - drift stayed at 0.06 - 0.07. Either the effect is very device instance specific, or the i1Pro2 has a different type of lamp in it ? ]

Quote
** All my measurements were performed with i1Profiler software. Perhaps the software performs any correction ?. I suggest that you take the same test with i1Profiler
I've cross checked the behavior using X-Rite driver output, as well as my own driver. The driver is what feeds the measurements to applications such as i1profiler, and yes, I've checked that i1profiler doesn't manipulate the numbers it is fed by the driver. So it is a characteristic of the device, not the software (although how it is driven certainly influences the behavior.)
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GWGill

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2016, 07:29:23 pm »

Surely you don't mean 0.003 - 0.008? If I can get 0.03 - 0.08 I would be delighted. I'm mostly seeing 0.1 deltaE2ks with my i1Pro 2 Rev E.

Yes, that is correct. "With carefully controlled cadence" and without moving the instrument, on the white calibration tile.

i.e. not normal measurement conditions.
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GWGill

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2016, 07:35:48 pm »

I tested my i1Pro2 using BabelColor PatchTool (non XRGA mode) - one calibration and then imitating manual spot reading patch by patch on a calibration tile with ~2 sec delay between readouts
I calculate a shift of 0.26 DE. So outside spec., but not in the direction I would expect if it was due to the effect I'm talking about.
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GWGill

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2016, 07:37:52 pm »

Could there be the possibility of manufacturing differences between halogen bulbs to account for why some don't have this warming problem? I don't know how quality control is managed in QH lighting.
There's certainly variation - one of the i1Pro RevA's I've got doesn't seem to show this effect at all, whereas the i1Pro2 I have is quite repeatable. Whether the variation is systematic is another question.
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AlterEgo

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2016, 07:42:26 pm »

I calculate a shift of 0.26 DE. So outside spec., but not in the direction I would expect if it was due to the effect I'm talking about.
"burning" the lamp with a special option in PatchTool in the 2nd test of i1Pro2 makes it work better... now if you can add something to argyll utilities like spotread to burn Spectrolino lamp instead of a user trying to burn "manually" it though measurements ?
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AlterEgo

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2016, 07:43:47 pm »

one of the i1Pro RevA's I've got doesn't seem to show this effect at all
may be it's lamp so old that it reached the state of spectrometer's nirvana  ;D
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GWGill

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2016, 07:58:13 pm »

quote from PatchTool manual
Right - so X-Rite know all about this, but just haven't told anyone but SDK licensees ?
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GWGill

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Re: i1Pro weirdness & fix
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2016, 08:04:48 pm »

may be it's lamp so old that it reached the state of spectrometer's nirvana  ;D
Maybe :-)

It's got about 9 hours lamp use on it, but that isn't much, even for a pure incandescent lamp.

If it's actually QH, it might be expected to last 1000Hours, although the constant on/off
works against that. On the other hand, I'm reasonably sure the i1 drivers it with a "soft start",
so the lamp life shouldn't be excessively degraded by constant on/off.
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