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Author Topic: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor  (Read 7047 times)

Michael Erlewine

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The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« on: February 16, 2016, 12:02:54 pm »

As a close-up photographer, I have eyed the legendary Noct Nikkor 58mm f/1.2 lens from afar, but put it out of my mind because it is not designed for close-up work. Yet, in the odd times that I wander around the photo web sites, I continued to kind of study what makes this lens unique. And I noticed when Nikon brought out a modern version of the Noct, a f/1.4G 58mm lens, rather than the original hand-polished f/1.2 Noct. And they don’t call it a Noct, which originally was short for Nocturne.

By studying the MTF charts for both the old and new “Noct,” I could see that the old Noct was quite a bit sharper than the new version in the center of the frame, and that the new version was sharper as you get to the edge of the frame than the old. Actually, I liked that the original Noct was very sharp at the center, and then rolled off toward bokeh at the edges.

So, that and the winter doldrums here in Michigan found imagining what I might do with the original Noct, if I could afford it. And before long, as things go in my acquisition department, I found myself selling some lenses I don’t ever use anymore, and putting that money toward a copy of the Noct, which are very, very expensive, around $3000. Ouch.

And then one Saturday morning I found myself just buying a copy from Ebay. My finger just pressed the “Buy” button and something inside me was happy, and my pocketbook was not as happy. But, what the heck, I’m not going to live forever.

The Noct finally arrived and turned out to be pretty-much in mint condition. I fell in love with the lens at first sight through it, but still had to figure out how I could get it a little closer. I did this with the Nikkor K1-Ring, an extension of 5.8mm. It has taken me a little while to adapt this incredible lens to my close-up work, but I am getting there. Here is a photo taken with the Nikon D810 with the Noct, ISO 64, and stacked lightly using Zerene Stacker.

The idea here is to stack a couple of areas, in this case two, and to leave the rest for bokeh. This was not done wide open because wide-open the Noct has razor-thin DOF, almost too thin to stack. But I am happy with this approach and confident I will find still other distinct ways to use this lens. It represents for me a different take on using the Noct Nikkor.

I must agree with those who feel this is a special lens. It is worth every penny.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 12:07:54 pm by Michael Erlewine »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2016, 08:32:22 pm »

Hi Michael,

Thanks for sharing your results.

I used to own a copy of this lens but sold it 5-6 years ago.

Glad to read you managed to put your copy to good use with a very appealing result indeed.

Cheers,
Bernard

Robert DeCandido PhD

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2016, 11:56:25 pm »

yes captive flora is fun...this is a bromeliad with the Sigma Merrell DP 3 at the New York Botanical Garden in the wild Bronx
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2016, 12:13:55 am »

Hi,

Nice image!

Thanks for sharing!

Best regards
Erik

As a close-up photographer, I have eyed the legendary Noct Nikkor 58mm f/1.2 lens from afar, but put it out of my mind because it is not designed for close-up work. Yet, in the odd times that I wander around the photo web sites, I continued to kind of study what makes this lens unique. And I noticed when Nikon brought out a modern version of the Noct, a f/1.4G 58mm lens, rather than the original hand-polished f/1.2 Noct. And they don’t call it a Noct, which originally was short for Nocturne.

By studying the MTF charts for both the old and new “Noct,” I could see that the old Noct was quite a bit sharper than the new version in the center of the frame, and that the new version was sharper as you get to the edge of the frame than the old. Actually, I liked that the original Noct was very sharp at the center, and then rolled off toward bokeh at the edges.

So, that and the winter doldrums here in Michigan found imagining what I might do with the original Noct, if I could afford it. And before long, as things go in my acquisition department, I found myself selling some lenses I don’t ever use anymore, and putting that money toward a copy of the Noct, which are very, very expensive, around $3000. Ouch.

And then one Saturday morning I found myself just buying a copy from Ebay. My finger just pressed the “Buy” button and something inside me was happy, and my pocketbook was not as happy. But, what the heck, I’m not going to live forever.

The Noct finally arrived and turned out to be pretty-much in mint condition. I fell in love with the lens at first sight through it, but still had to figure out how I could get it a little closer. I did this with the Nikkor K1-Ring, an extension of 5.8mm. It has taken me a little while to adapt this incredible lens to my close-up work, but I am getting there. Here is a photo taken with the Nikon D810 with the Noct, ISO 64, and stacked lightly using Zerene Stacker.

The idea here is to stack a couple of areas, in this case two, and to leave the rest for bokeh. This was not done wide open because wide-open the Noct has razor-thin DOF, almost too thin to stack. But I am happy with this approach and confident I will find still other distinct ways to use this lens. It represents for me a different take on using the Noct Nikkor.

I must agree with those who feel this is a special lens. It is worth every penny.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2016, 10:35:38 am »

A couple more experiments with the Noct Nikkor with a little extension on the Nikon D810.
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kers

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2016, 01:02:43 pm »

Like those very much, thanks for sharing...

It strikes me that on the one hand you seem to enjoy the perfect lens and on the other hand use lenses completely different than what they are made for.. :)

Like the Otus 28mm- your first shots published was macro @ f16, while i would expect a notcturnal image @f1.4 to do first...
BTW i would like to see what a focus stacked 1.4 would do in this case.
I very much like macro in combination with wide angel for it lets you combine the detail + the environment in one image.
I used my very sharp fisheye ( 10.5mm 2.8 nikkor) as well for these purposes

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Michael Erlewine

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2016, 01:34:46 pm »

Like those very much, thanks for sharing...

It strikes me that on the one hand you seem to enjoy the perfect lens and on the other hand use lenses completely different than what they are made for.. :)

Like the Otus 28mm- your first shots published was macro @ f16, while i would expect a notcturnal image @f1.4 to do first...
BTW i would like to see what a focus stacked 1.4 would do in this case.
I very much like macro in combination with wide angel for it lets you combine the detail + the environment in one image.
I used my very sharp fisheye ( 10.5mm 2.8 nikkor) as well for these purposes

I would like to see some examples of the 10.5mm fisheye. I am working on the Otus 28mm, but really I need for winter to get over so I could get outside for that.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2016, 03:08:03 pm »

Hi,

I find that fisheye lenses are very good for a certain kind of macro photography without  "volume deformation". This is a sample from my shoots in the Dolomites:


The image was shot with a Sigma semi fisheye 10.5/2.8 APS-C.

Best regards
Erik

I would like to see some examples of the 10.5mm fisheye. I am working on the Otus 28mm, but really I need for winter to get over so I could get outside for that.
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Robert DeCandido PhD

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2016, 03:55:30 pm »

Macros are good too...this was a 16mm F2.8 AIS Nikkor and the D70 if I remember correctly

Wild Pink Silene caroliniana var. pensylvanica - a species of special concern in NY State...growing wild in the Bronx.

Michael might have this species near him in Michigan...blooms in early May.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2016, 04:08:25 pm »

Noct Nikkor and Nikon D810
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NancyP

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2016, 04:41:27 pm »

It would not be a chore to have to walk the dogs in that setting, Eric.
Lovely photos, all around. Tulips look luscious. This is the "fun" macro thread, images, not scores.
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John Koerner

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2016, 06:46:54 pm »

It would not be a chore to have to walk the dogs in that setting, Eric.
Lovely photos, all around. Tulips look luscious. This is the "fun" macro thread, images, not scores.

True, taking photos is the fun part ... but didn't the author first read MTF charts, and multiple reviews, which which are what directed him to the purchase? ;)

Without publicly-available charts, reviews, and forum-based user-opinions (commenting on the differences) it would be hard to make purchase decisions in a vacuum.

I am curious as to how this lens compares to the Otus; if there's a qualitative difference; or if the two lenses are equivalent.
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kers

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2016, 08:25:20 pm »

I would like to see some examples of the 10.5mm fisheye. I am working on the Otus 28mm, but really I need for winter to get over so I could get outside for that.

here is one - but had some other in mind- post it later...

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Michael Erlewine

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2016, 10:06:13 pm »

Reviews, tests, recommendations are useful, but it depends upon what we particularly need for our work that counts IMO.  It is useful to know what kind of photography the reviewer does, and what they value. In my experience, most reviews are of no help to me. In most cases, I have to figure out how I would use the lens, in particular because what I value is not necessarily what others value. For example:

While I like lenses that are fast wide-open, and also highly corrected, others say why spend the money, when they always shoot stopped down. I don’t do that. I stack wide open with fast lenses, and I also prefer highly corrected lenses that, to my eyes, look good even at small apertures. I seldom shoot in the mid-range apertures (f/5.6) that most lenses excel at in resolution. I tend to shoot at the extremes, either wide-open or quite stopped down (f/16). To my eyes, highly corrected lenses stand up at narrow apertures better than less well-corrected lenses do. It could just be me.

And I have one other comment. Every photo I take, including any I post, are just experiments on a long journey that I have been on since 1956, when I started seriously taking photos with my little Kodak Retina IIa (and its close-up lens). It is the process of photographing that I value, not just the results. I don’t take photos primarily for others to see or for even me to see. I take them because in the process of looking through fine lenses I can see something beyond the subject I am photographing, an impression in my mind that I am trying to capture, and I like that. In fact I consider that when I am into it, that I am not just looking at a subject, but am resting in the nature of the mind itself. It brings a certain clarity and lucidity I value.

As for this lens, I don’t use the Noct Nikkor as others have, for mid-range photography, but rather for close-up work, so I am exploring this in my own way. The Noct is a special lens, for a special kind photography, at least how I use it. I have a number of such exotic lenses that I use for a specific kind of close-up work. I call this “lens painting.” I don’t confuse them with mainstay lenses like the Nikon Trifecta (14-24mm, 24-70mm, 70-200mm), which are general purpose lenses. I feel the Otus lenses are general purpose lenses, just much finer ones than many of the Nikkors I have. Yet, I use them for close-up work (as best I can) because I like the “micro-contrast,” color-correction, and resolution they provide.

Here is another shot I took today with the Noct and the D810.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2016, 01:55:00 am »

Hi John,

Yes, reviews are helpful in making educated choices. We need just to keep in mind that not all reviews are created equal.

Personally, I feel that measurements, MTF data and things like that are useful.

For Canon and Nikon shooters I would recommend this site: http://www.the-digital-picture.com

I also use Photozone and DxO-mark but I look at all data across the field and at different apertures and focal lengths and I also consider my own shooting habits.

Best regards
Erik

True, taking photos is the fun part ... but didn't the author first read MTF charts, and multiple reviews, which which are what directed him to the purchase? ;)

Without publicly-available charts, reviews, and forum-based user-opinions (commenting on the differences) it would be hard to make purchase decisions in a vacuum.

I am curious as to how this lens compares to the Otus; if there's a qualitative difference; or if the two lenses are equivalent.
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Rob C

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2016, 05:23:18 am »


And I have one other comment. Every photo I take, including any I post, are just experiments on a long journey that I have been on since 1956, when I started seriously taking photos with my little Kodak Retina IIa (and its close-up lens). It is the process of photographing that I value, not just the results. I don’t take photos primarily for others to see or for even me to see. I take them because in the process of looking through fine lenses I can see something beyond the subject I am photographing, an impression in my mind that I am trying to capture, and I like that. In fact I consider that when I am into it, that I am not just looking at a subject, but am resting in the nature of the mind itself. It brings a certain clarity and lucidity I value.



First of all, I'd just like to say that I think your plant shots are absolutely beautiful, and that I'm glad you didn't, in fact, go as far as not showing them.

Regarding the part, above, that I've stressed in your post, it is one of the main reasons that I love the long lenses and use them whenever I get the circumstances that make it worthwhile. My playing with the 500 cat optic is an example: it's partly about how the subject is going to look in the finished picture, but also very much about the feeling that I get during the focussing process: even wih slightly shorter long lenses, there's an emotional buzz in the act of going in and out of focus with something, a buzz that's tangible not only to my mind - I can almost taste it!

And yes, with my reflections pictures I get a different, but distinct, buzz of recognition of something that's probably more in my head than in the reflection.

In many ways, for me, the point of a website (as a non-business operation) is as repository for pictures of my personal trip along my way to wherever I'm going. I enjoy looking through the work (I call it work, but it isn't) because in it I see the milestones, the things that stayed with me and those that I touched upon and discarded.

But even then, the real part, the flavour of which lasts best, is in the shooting. Truth to tell, the buzz might even be there with an empty camera: it's the seeing of it, the finding. That said, the eventual image that gets out onto the site can sometimes be something very different to the one I imagined that I was making. Looked at like that, Photoshop itself can be felt to be an independent trip hardly tied to the file you offer up to it.

Rob C

Michael Erlewine

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2016, 06:06:10 am »


But even then, the real part, the flavour of which lasts best, is in the shooting. Truth to tell, the buzz might even be there with an empty camera: it's the seeing of it, the finding. That said, the eventual image that gets out onto the site can sometimes be something very different to the one I imagined that I was making. Looked at like that, Photoshop itself can be felt to be an independent trip hardly tied to the file you offer up to it.

Rob C

Some years ago I mixed my photography with my Buddhist mind-training practices and found, probably because I loved nature and looking through fine glass, that I achieved a clarity of mind I had never before experienced in my life. In fact, the clarity was so striking that for six months (unless there was heavy rain) I went out at dawn every day and watched the sun rise, while crawling around in the wet grass taking close-up and macro photos. It got so intense that if I wanted I clear mind, I had to take my camera and go out into nature to shoot photos. Since I often stack focus, I have taken many hundreds of thousands of photos this way. For me, it was not about the results, but about the process of "Seeing" that fascinated me. For some considerable time, I did not even develop (digitally) my photos. The result I was after was the process itself of immersing myself in nature, which I had done since I was six-years old.

It took me a year or so to gradually separate my camera/lens forays into nature from the meditation methods (Insight Meditation) that had fused with my photography. After some time, I learned to have this clarity in many things I do, other than photography. This points out that as photographers we may have different approaches. In my case, the result that was most important was the state of mind I could attain by concentrating out there in the early morning light, peering through a lens, and waiting for the incessant Michigan wind to die down. In time, I found that the resulting photos also improved.

At that time, I was taking photos like this, using the latest Nikon DSLRs and lenses like the Voigtlander 125mm f/2.5 APO-Lanthar. These days I am more interested in composition and what I call the “painterly” lenses, learning to paint with focus.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 06:12:31 am by Michael Erlewine »
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2016, 01:51:37 pm »

My first-take experiments with the Nikon Noct have reached a turning point. I have more to do, but it will be outside when spring comes. My take-away at this time is that, for my kind of close-up work, I will use the Noct wide open or stopped down a bit, either in a single shot or stacked lightly. If stacked, perhaps a shot wide-open for background, and then one or two inscapes, tightly stacked, painting focus on one or a few areas that I want in focus. And because of the fact that this lens is very sharp in the center, but rolls off quickly, I find that it takes extension well, either the K1-Ring (5.8mm) or larger, like the PK-12 (14mm), and this is often needed for close-up work.

This is not a walk-around lens for me, but a specialized lens to add to the series of lenses with “character” or a unique draw that I have assembled. It is very expensive ($3K), but worth the money in that it will serve well for years to come. It really is a wonderful and unique lens, as I had heard all these years. The recent Nikon replacement, as I study the specs will not be the same, in that there is a stronger difference in resolution in the center for the original Noct, and the new lens has better resolution at the edge, but I would rather have the greater roll-off at the edges that the original Noct provides. The new version probably is not something I need.

So, I will continue to experiment with this lens and update here if I have other insights into its use.

This photo taken with the Noct, the D810, the PK-12 extension, and Zerene Stacker.
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jrp

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2016, 02:40:50 pm »

I had a Noct Nikkor in the film days but found it unusable because of focus shift; not an issue if focusing stopped down in live view.

The new 58mm f1.4 is designed to produce a pleasing rendering.  It is not sharp until f2.8, but it produces unique looking images and is great for portraiture.
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tsjanik

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Re: The Close-Up Face of the Noct Nikkor
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2016, 09:37:38 pm »

I love images like these.  Just for comparison Pentax 67 90mm f/2.8, wide open on a 645D:

_IGP2322 by tsjanik47, on Flickr
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