Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?  (Read 16411 times)

Mark Lindquist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1303
  • itís not about the photos we take - itís the ones we leave
    • LINDQUIST STUDIOS
Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« on: February 05, 2016, 03:15:18 PM »

I recently had someone ask me if HP will be continuing to support the Z3200 series printers and if so, for how long.

You know, I haven't got a clue.  If anyone out there knows, or knows someone who knows, please share that information.

Most people who have these printers would rather fight than switch, and it is the same for me.

No need in extolling the virtues of the Z series printers here.  If you have one, you know, if you don't you likely don't care.

Let us know if you have any insight:

Will HP do another iteration of the Z Series Printers?  or are we all done?

Thanks - very much appreciate any and all input.

Mark

Logged
Mark Lindquist
z3200.com, MarkLindquistPhotography

namartinnz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2016, 04:28:57 PM »

I'd love to know too, and like you I'd never give up my 3200

Neal

John Caldwell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 649
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2016, 04:51:50 PM »

I had understood HP was out of the fineart printer market. I had the impression, quite wrongly maybe, that this had been a consensus view for a while.

I owned a 24" Z3200, and still marvel at how it always worked. Having since moved  to Epson, I now particularly marvel at how the HP worked...

John-
Logged

Ernst Dinkla

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3680
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2016, 05:35:49 AM »

I had understood HP was out of the fineart printer market. I had the impression, quite wrongly maybe, that this had been a consensus view for a while.

I owned a 24" Z3200, and still marvel at how it always worked. Having since moved  to Epson, I now particularly marvel at how the HP worked...

John-

The 24 and 44" Z3200-PS versions are still in the HP catalog. It is not unusual for HP to keep a product available for a long time after its introduction.
http://www8.hp.com/nl/nl/large-format-printers/designjet-printers/z3200.html
44" model pricing in the market is about 1200 Euro lower than mentioned there. I guess in the US it will be lower even.
Inks are partly shared by more recent models in the Designjet range so I expect that the ink production will continue too.

For the jobs I have to do the printer does not need to be enhanced. I know that printer and its habits and not any new one.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
Logged

adeel tahir

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2016, 10:54:07 AM »

Looks like they will continue to support Z series printers but not sure for how long.. hope below link helps,

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/large-format-printers/designjet-printers/support-services.html

Adeel
Logged
Print Fiction
www.printfiction.me

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2399
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2016, 11:40:21 AM »

Looks like they will continue to support Z series printers but not sure for how long.. hope below link helps,

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/large-format-printers/designjet-printers/support-services.html

Adeel

I'd be hesitant to buy a Z3200 printer at the moment. They're great printers - very reliable and with a fantastic inkset - but who knows how much longer they'll be supported?

Canon's iPF6300/6400/6450 are a good alternative - also very reliable, and the Lucia EX inkset exceeds the colour gamut of the HP while equalling it for longevity on many media. You can pick up 6300s and 8300s cheaply second-hand now, and they use the same inkset and print at the same resolution with the same image quality as the newer 6400/6450/8400.
Logged

Mark Lindquist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1303
  • itís not about the photos we take - itís the ones we leave
    • LINDQUIST STUDIOS
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2016, 03:50:03 PM »

I'd be hesitant to buy a Z3200 printer at the moment. They're great printers - very reliable and with a fantastic inkset - but who knows how much longer they'll be supported?

Yeah, I don't know.  The beauty of the HP Z3200ps is that it has the embedded spectrophotometer, the micro-droplet self-maintaining anti-clog system, and as you mentioned a superior inkset.  It's like a sports car in comparison to the big Epsons or Canons.  It will crank out some excellent work, and be able to just change papers and make a new profile at the drop of a hat.

None of the other printers can do that unless custom profiles are in a library and whoever is using the printer has the equipment and ability to make instant custom profiles in-house. With the Z Series printers, load any paper, calibrate and profile and ready to go usually under 20 - 25 minutes.  With consistent excellence.

It is a little finicky, but all the large format printers are.

I believe they will continue to make inks for it.

Having been through these printers part by part, they use a lot of off the shelf parts so that a lot of it is replaceable.  There seem to be a lot of parts available for them, either OEM or secondary market, either on eBay, or through distributors and resellers.

They are not that difficult to work on actually.

I've been thinking of getting another 44" Z3200 ps and keep it in the crate in case they stop making them.  Problem is the ink and printheads would expire, but I could just use them and continue to have printheads and inks available as time marches on.

I hate the thought of going to another printer when this printer does so much, sips ink, and produces fantastic output and doesn't weigh a ton.  Also, has printheads that are easy to change and are really inexpensive.  So many advantages to it over other printers, (not to say that the others are not great also.)

I wish HP would just do an update to the Z3200ps like they did to the Z3200 years back.

If they won't do that, than please, just keep making the printers and supporting them.

I'd really like to hear if anyone has heard anything from HP Corporate about their future plans in this market.

Mark
Logged
Mark Lindquist
z3200.com, MarkLindquistPhotography

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2399
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2016, 05:35:45 AM »

Yeah, I don't know.  The beauty of the HP Z3200ps is that it has the embedded spectrophotometer, the micro-droplet self-maintaining anti-clog system, and as you mentioned a superior inkset.  It's like a sports car in comparison to the big Epsons or Canons.  It will crank out some excellent work, and be able to just change papers and make a new profile at the drop of a hat.

The automatic profile is nice, but hardly a deal-breaker for the others. It's not exactly difficult to run a strip through a separate spectro to generate a profile - and, that way, you can generate a profile based on the final, dried, coated product. Also, I believe the Canon iPF6450 has an inbuilt spectro too.

It's a very nice inkset, but the Lucia EX inkset used by the iPF6300/6400/8300/8400 was tested to have the same longevity on many media, at Aardenburg. Not sure how the new Lucia Pro set compares in this regard. Also, I believe Epson's HDX inkset has more than doubled its longevity over the previous HDR inkset, simply by replacing the yellow. I don't regard Epson's printers as being suitable for anything other than a print shop which prints every day, though - they run well when used constantly, but, when used intermittently, as is the case with most fine art photographers, they tend to clog. The Canons, on the other hand, do well when used intermittently.

Quote
I believe they will continue to make inks for it.

CMYK (and the light versions), certainly - after all, they're used by all the other HP printers too. I'm not so sure about the other colours, though.
Logged

Mark Lindquist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1303
  • itís not about the photos we take - itís the ones we leave
    • LINDQUIST STUDIOS
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2016, 10:29:57 AM »

The automatic profile is nice, but hardly a deal-breaker for the others. It's not exactly difficult to run a strip through a separate spectro to generate a profile - and, that way, you can generate a profile based on the final, dried, coated product. Also, I believe the Canon iPF6450 has an inbuilt spectro too.

The Canons, on the other hand, do well when used intermittently.

CMYK (and the light versions), certainly - after all, they're used by all the other HP printers too. I'm not so sure about the other colours, though.

I wasn't aware that the Canon printers had optional embedded spectrophotometers.  Good to know.  For the record, the Z Series printers are capable of measuring coated dried substrates as well.  There are many options and different ways to run charts, do whatever you want to them and run them back through to read them.  In many cases, however, for many papers, the waiting time is adequate.  If you want to let a paper dry overnight or 24 hours, or whatever, it's the same - easy to just have the printer read the chart whenever.

You have some good points shadow blade and I appreciate the information and your perspective, but regarding inks and support, I really would not just count HP out when it comes to future offerings.  Guessing that they will or won't continue to make the inks is not enough proof to simply write them off, when the company has a long history of long time manufacture of their inks.

You could be right, but until I see evidence of any such sort, I'll be sticking with my Z series printers.  I'm glad you like the Canons - I have some Canon Pro Series printers as well in our studios, and they're great, but I really prefer the HP's.

Just curious, do you have any evidence or any special knowledge that HP will discontinue manufacturing the other colors?

Thanks -

Mark

 
Logged
Mark Lindquist
z3200.com, MarkLindquistPhotography

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1113
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2016, 05:53:28 PM »


It's a very nice inkset, but the Lucia EX inkset used by the iPF6300/6400/8300/8400 was tested to have the same longevity on many media, at Aardenburg. Not sure how the new Lucia Pro set compares in this regard. Also, I believe Epson's HDX inkset has more than doubled its longevity over the previous HDR inkset, simply by replacing the yellow.


Not really, Hp generally outperforms the Canon Lucia ink set due to its balanced fading performance and this shows up in the Aardenburg testing as well as WIR test results. However, when paired with an underperforming media, the superior HP Vivera pigments won't buy you much that the other pigmented ink sets can't deliver in terms of light fade resistance. Nevertheless, if you look at all the data on the Aardenburg website, it's a fair conclusion to rank HP's Vivera pigments as the very highest rated ink set in overall light fastness, followed by Canon Lucia, and then by any Epson printers that use the K3 yellow. The new HDX yellow in the latest Epson ink sets may change the rank order, but that remains to be seen. As pigment longevity improves, the battleground shifts more and more to the properties of the chosen media.

I don't regard Epson's printers as being suitable for anything other than a print shop which prints every day, though - they run well when used constantly, but, when used intermittently, as is the case with most fine art photographers, they tend to clog. The Canons, on the other hand, do well when used intermittently.


I own a Canon iPF8300 and am very happy with it, but it's not a clearcut case of Canon being better when used intermittently in comparison to Epson printers being used intermittently. Canon uses very simple clock timer intervals to initiate pre-emptive cleaning cycles prior to printing when your Canon pigment ink printer has been left unused for more than a few days. And the longer you leave a Canon printer, the more aggressive that cleaning cycle is. While this preemptive procedure to avoid clogged nozzles on a Canon printer gives the enduser the impression that Canon printers don't clog as often as Epson printers, the reality is that a lot of ink hits Canon waste tanks rather than your paper if you don't use your Canon pigmented ink printer almost every day. And also in light use cases, when the nozzles finally do clog and don't respond to cleaning, then the Canon remaps the misfiring nozzles to spare nozzles, but it's a consumptive process. Because I use my Canon iPf8300 for only my personal work, my usage follows that of the "fine art" photographer. I'm having to replace Canon print heads approximately every two years, and it takes even less time for the $90 waste tank to get full. That is about $500 dollars per year in ongoing maintenance costs over and above all the wasted ink which goes unaccounted for.

Epson clearly suffers from a cleaning and maintenance perception problem where there is some truth to the story, but the story for Canon printer owners is far less obvious though real nonetheless.  I'm not so sure that the generally perceived reality between the two brands is accurate.  Bottom line: it would take a rather sophisticated multi printer study to prove total cost of Canon ownership is less than Epson (not just hearsay on internet chat forums), and I don't know of any such independent test reports with conclusions along those lines as ever having been published. Because HP heads are so cheap to replace, it may very well be that HP wins the total cost of ownership game as well, so it's a shame that HP hasn't maintained a vigorous pursuit of the photography and fine art market. Maybe we should all write a "draft HP" petition, and send it on to Carly Fiorina's successors at HP. ;D

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 06:34:21 PM by MHMG »
Logged

Mark Lindquist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1303
  • itís not about the photos we take - itís the ones we leave
    • LINDQUIST STUDIOS
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2016, 08:57:25 PM »

Thanks for weighing in, Mark.  Considering that the only change to the Vivera Inkset has been with the addition of Chromata Red, it is a testament to HP's vision to create the best inks ever at the time when the Z Series printers came on the scene.  I like your idea about a petition, but I'm afraid HP's corporate stance is unmoveable - the bottom line is the line they toe.

Ernst's comment:

For the jobs I have to do the printer does not need to be enhanced. I know that printer and its habits and not any new one.

This is probably true, that the printer doesn't need to be improved.  If there was any way that they could include a paper tray, it would possibly become the most popular prnter on the market. If they were going to make a single change, a simple one would be to make the control panel have an "upside down" reading capability to make it easier to read from the back side of the printer.  Come to think of it, a "snap-clip" to clamp the belt which could be a strip rather than a loop, would be a significant improvement.

Just continuing to manufacture the printer and inks as is would be enough though.

Mark
Logged
Mark Lindquist
z3200.com, MarkLindquistPhotography

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2399
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2016, 10:00:00 PM »

Not really, Hp generally outperforms the Canon Lucia ink set due to its balanced fading performance and this shows up in the Aardenburg testing as well as WIR test results. However, when paired with an underperforming media, the superior HP Vivera pigments won't buy you much that the other pigmented ink sets can't deliver in terms of light fade resistance. Nevertheless, if you look at all the data on the Aardenburg website, it's a fair conclusion to rank HP's Vivera pigments as the very highest rated ink set in overall light fastness, followed by Canon Lucia, and then by any Epson printers that use the K3 yellow. The new HDX yellow in the latest Epson ink sets may change the rank order, but that remains to be seen. As pigment longevity improves, the battleground shifts more and more to the properties of the chosen media.

I was looking at some direct comparisons and found this:

Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl @ 100 Mlux hours - HP Vivera via Z3100 I*colour average 97.6/worst 10% 92.1, I*tone average 95.1/worst 10% 90.1
Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl @ 100 Mlux hours - Canon Lucia EX via iPF8300 I*colour average 96.8/worst 10% 91.9, I*tone average 96.3/worst 10% 91.5

Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308gsm @ 140Mlux hours - HP Vivera via Z3200 I*colour average 94.5/worst 10% 82.1, I*tone average 92.7/worst 10% 84.8
Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308gsm @ 140Mlux hours - Canon Lucia EX via iPF6300 I*colour average 95.1/worst 10% 83.2, I*tone average 93.4/worst 10% 87.4

All uncoated/unlaminated samples.

I'm very interested to see what you and others have found with the HDX pigments - after all, if you take out the yellow completely (via a RIP) and compensate with orange and green in the HDR inkset, you end up with longevity similar to those of Canon and HP. I'm also interested to see what Canon have done with the Lucia Pro inkset vs Lucia EX - with Lucia EX they were claiming 200 years plus, whereas with Lucia Pro they're only claming around 60-80 years. It's hard to imagine them going backwards, particularly since Lucia Pro is a more concentrated ink than Lucia EX, but maybe their standard of 'acceptable fading' has changed.

Don't get me wrong - I really like the HP printers and inks, and wish they had developed them further. The HP printers are fairly idiot-proof, and you know the inks will last as long or longer than any other aqueous ink available no matter what you're printing on. The gamut could have been improved a bit, but the next generation of Vivera pigments could have done that, and it's only when you put them side-by-side with a Canon or Epson print of a highly-saturated subject that you can sometimes see a difference. It's just unfortunate that HP dropped out of the aqueous photographic printer game and we may not be able to obtain red, green and blue ink in the future, if no other HP printers use them.

At the moment, I'm also looking at the possibility of using Epson's S70-series (and upcoming S80-series) solvent printers for indoor fine-art prints, since their gamut is now approaching that of aqueous printers, and their physical durability and ink permanence are without question (2-3 years outdoors uncoated probably equals several centuries coated with Timeless and on indoor display).

Quote
I own a Canon iPF8300 and am very happy with it, but it's not a clearcut case of Canon being better when used intermittently in comparison to Epson printers being used intermittently. Canon uses very simple clock timer intervals to initiate pre-emptive cleaning cycles prior to printing when your Canon pigment ink printer has been left unused for more than a few days. And the longer you leave a Canon printer, the more aggressive that cleaning cycle is. While this preemptive procedure to avoid clogged nozzles on a Canon printer gives the enduser the impression that Canon printers don't clog as often as Epson printers, the reality is that a lot of ink hits Canon waste tanks rather than your paper if you don't use your Canon pigmented ink printer almost every day. And also in light use cases, when the nozzles finally do clog and don't respond to cleaning, then the Canon remaps the misfiring nozzles to spare nozzles, but it's a consumptive process. Because I use my Canon iPf8300 for only my personal work, my usage follows that of the "fine art" photographer. I'm having to replace Canon print heads approximately every two years, and it takes even less time for the $90 waste tank to get full. That is about $500 dollars per year in ongoing maintenance costs over and above all the wasted ink which goes unaccounted for.

Is it the same with HP, though? They're both based on the same head technology; granted, the inks are different.

Quote
Epson clearly suffers from a cleaning and maintenance perception problem where there is some truth to the story, but the story for Canon printer owners is far less obvious though real nonetheless.  I'm not so sure that the generally perceived reality between the two brands is accurate.  Bottom line: it would take a rather sophisticated multi printer study to prove total cost of Canon ownership is less than Epson (not just hearsay on internet chat forums), and I don't know of any such independent test reports with conclusions along those lines as ever having been published. Because HP heads are so cheap to replace, it may very well be that HP wins the total cost of ownership game as well, so it's a shame that HP hasn't maintained a vigorous pursuit of the photography and fine art market. Maybe we should all write a "draft HP" petition, and send it on to Carly Fiorina's successors at HP. ;D

The thing is, Canon and HP both map out blocked nozzles to completely compensate for them, so you don't get prints spoiled by malfunctioning nozzles, and can go away on a six-week shooting trip and still come back to a printer that works perfectly. It might cost a bit of ink to run it that way, but it still runs. Epson does not - a single blocked nozzle makes the entire printer unusable, and nozzles clog on a regular-enough basis that, unless you print every day, you end up spending more time unblocking the printer than actually printing with it. And, when even a single nozzle can't be unblocked by regular means, you need to drain all the lines and remove the head to try to flush or clean it - or even replace the whole $2000 head - rather than just remap it like with every other printer. Sure, it works fine for a production environment where the printer is working continuously. But it's probably not ideal for a photographer who prints on demand and doesn't also provide a printing service for other photographers and artists.
Logged

Ernst Dinkla

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3680
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2016, 04:51:56 AM »

I wasn't aware that the Canon printers had optional embedded spectrophotometers.  Good to know.  For the record, the Z Series printers are capable of measuring coated dried substrates as well.  There are many options and different ways to run charts, do whatever you want to them and run them back through to read them.  In many cases, however, for many papers, the waiting time is adequate.  If you want to let a paper dry overnight or 24 hours, or whatever, it's the same - easy to just have the printer read the chart whenever.

You have some good points shadow blade and I appreciate the information and your perspective, but regarding inks and support, I really would not just count HP out when it comes to future offerings.  Guessing that they will or won't continue to make the inks is not enough proof to simply write them off, when the company has a long history of long time manufacture of their inks.

You could be right, but until I see evidence of any such sort, I'll be sticking with my Z series printers.  I'm glad you like the Canons - I have some Canon Pro Series printers as well in our studios, and they're great, but I really prefer the HP's.

Just curious, do you have any evidence or any special knowledge that HP will discontinue manufacturing the other colors?

Thanks -

Mark

Today's Z3200-PS comes with the spectrometer integrated + calibration software + profiling software (2 types) + monitor puck/dongle and it can profile 3rd party printers as well. Both on the 24" and 44" version. All in the price quoted earlier in this thread.  Some weeks ago a customer I print for came here with Canson BFK print proofs made on the Canon Pro 10 (10 pigment inks desktop model). I made the Canon  Pro 10 BFK profile with the Z3200 spectrometer some months before. The proofs were 1:1 in color to the prints I made. Interesting as I had done the same for another customer with an Epson 3880 and there the blue/cyan just could not get near the Z3200 output. Difference probably in the lacking extra hue inks of the 3880.

Epson and Canon deliver a more optional solution for the spectrometer on the printers, any buyer should read carefully what the deal content is on profiling software. Check also the possibility  of making profiles for other printers + legal restrictions on that.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
Logged

Mark Lindquist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1303
  • itís not about the photos we take - itís the ones we leave
    • LINDQUIST STUDIOS
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2016, 09:44:41 AM »

Don't get me wrong - I really like the HP printers and inks, and wish they had developed them further. The HP printers are fairly idiot-proof, and you know the inks will last as long or longer than any other aqueous ink available no matter what you're printing on. The gamut could have been improved a bit, but the next generation of Vivera pigments could have done that, and it's only when you put them side-by-side with a Canon or Epson print of a highly-saturated subject that you can sometimes see a difference. It's just unfortunate that HP dropped out of the aqueous photographic printer game and we may not be able to obtain red, green and blue ink in the future, if no other HP printers use them.

Sounds a little condescending, Shadowblade.  "Fairly idiot-proof", "gamut could be improved", "red, green and blue inks not available in the future"....

By "fairly idiot-proof" do you mean "easy to use"? 

By "gamut could be improved" do you mean better than the already better than the other ink sets? Two of the most highly regarded forum contributors have already refuted your statements regarding overall longevity and gamut.

"Red, green and blue inks not available in the future"  What, you have a corporate crystal ball?

As far as I know, HP has NOT dropped out of the aqueous market yet - they still sell the Z3200ps 44" and as Ernst stated earlier, the printers are still listed for sale in HP's catalog.  Your arguments are really splitting hairs, and I'm not exactly sure what your agenda is, other than to suggest you think the Canon printers are superior.  But to what end?  This is a thread asking if HP will make a next-gen Z-Series, not about "what better Canon printer" replaces it.

What you have to gain by putting the Z Series printers down, is unclear.  If it's just soliloquizing on your part, then of course, you're welcome to your opinions, fact based or not.  To continue to spread a rumor that the inks may not be available in the future, the same can be said of any other printers.

I get it - you're a Canon fan.  Great.


Logged
Mark Lindquist
z3200.com, MarkLindquistPhotography

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2399
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2016, 10:32:48 AM »

Sounds a little condescending, Shadowblade.  "Fairly idiot-proof", "gamut could be improved", "red, green and blue inks not available in the future"....

Now who's the one being condescending?

Quote
By "fairly idiot-proof" do you mean "easy to use"? 

Yes. They're easy to use. If you're not printing every day, you don't need to worry about clogged heads - they'll remap themselves. No messing around with cleaning solutions, cleaning cartridges, etc. When you need to replace the heads, they're cheap. And, as already mentioned, profiling is easy. Compared to any other large-format printer, they are idiot-proof.

Quote
By "gamut could be improved" do you mean better than the already better than the other ink sets? Two of the most highly regarded forum contributors have already refuted your statements regarding overall longevity and gamut.

Now you're putting words into my mouth. I never said anything to suggest that HP inks weren't as long-lasting or longer-lasting than other aqueous inks on the market. I merely said that, on the right media, Canon Lucia EX inks match - not exceed - HP's inks in longevity. And the results I looked up and quoted confirm that. Or are you contradicting the test results?

Show me one test - on any inkjet paper or canvas - where the colour gamut of the HP Z3200 matches or exceeds the gamut of Epson HDR/HDX prints or Canon Lucia EX or Lucia Pro inks. I doubt you'd be able to find one. Every comparison out there shows Epson and Canon having a slight. Whether or not that actually matters depends on the subject matter you're printing. Subdued scenes? Probably not. Deeply-saturated landscapes with strong reds and oranges? Quite possibly.

Quote
"Red, green and blue inks not available in the future"  What, you have a corporate crystal ball?

I take it English isn't your first language? I believe I said 'may not' be available, not 'will not'. Or did you decide to deliberately misquote me for the purpose of attacking a straw man?

HP haven't released a large-format printer using those inks for eight years. In another eight years, with the Z3200 design being as ancient as printers released in 2000 seem today, it seems unlikely that they'll continue to support an ever-dwindling number of old machines still being used at that stage.

Quote
As far as I know, HP has NOT dropped out of the aqueous market yet - they still sell the Z3200ps 44" and as Ernst stated earlier, the printers are still listed for sale in HP's catalog.  Your arguments are really splitting hairs, and I'm not exactly sure what your agenda is, other than to suggest you think the Canon printers are superior.  But to what end?  This is a thread asking if HP will make a next-gen Z-Series, not about "what better Canon printer" replaces it.

And I'm arguing that they won't. HP themselves pretty much said so - they're working on technical/business machines, not those designed for photography or art.

I never said the Canon was better. Merely that, with HP unlikely to bring out another large-format photo printer with lots of inks and a wide colour gamut, the Canon is the best alternative, with proven longevity and colour gamut.

Quote
What you have to gain by putting the Z Series printers down, is unclear.  If it's just soliloquizing on your part, then of course, you're welcome to your opinions, fact based or not.  To continue to spread a rumor that the inks may not be available in the future, the same can be said of any other printers.

What rumour? It's pure speculation. And, given that HP haven't released a photo-oriented large-format printer for years, it's on pretty solid ground.

Quote
I get it - you're a Canon fan.  Great.

No I'm not. I prefer the HP myself (when I'm not selling ultra-glossy dye sub metal, anyway). But I'm under no illusions that HP will ever launch a successor, or that the current model will continue to be supported indefinitely, and prefer to look for alternatives rather than hoping against hope that HP will change its mind and deliver a Z3300 at some stage.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 11:43:51 AM by shadowblade »
Logged

Mark Lindquist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1303
  • itís not about the photos we take - itís the ones we leave
    • LINDQUIST STUDIOS
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2016, 11:16:40 AM »

You've made your points clear Shadowblade.

On some, we'll agree.  On others, we'll agree to disagree.

Thank you for your contributions to the thread.

Mark

Logged
Mark Lindquist
z3200.com, MarkLindquistPhotography

Borealis

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2016, 01:10:15 PM »

This coming summer I'll buy my first 44 inch printer. I was considering Canon or HP. I have read a ton of posts here over the years. I think I'll go with the z3200ps. My remote location (Yukon Territory) and intermittent printing combined with all the infos out there on how to fix problems (thank you Mr. Lindquist) plus a ton of other features/options/specs that are included with the printer make it a no brainer for me. Yes, I was also wondering what HP's plans are for the future supporting the printer but worst case scenario I'll buy the most needed spare parts sooner than later.
I think it's hopeless to wonder about the future of these products, what would HP gain if they said anything about a 'No Future' ? So they might as well keep quiet and enjoy business as usual.
William
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2016, 09:08:25 PM »

You won't be sorry. They are the most trouble free pigment printer on the market and twice the longevity of both the new Epson and Canon. Excellent BW as well, much better dmax on matte media, and if your head dies, it costs you $70.00. I don't care about the future either. They legally have to keep selling ink and heads for like 10 years after they discontinue the printers, and they are still making them. Only downside for me is they are slower than the others, but I don't care. Probably the best product HP ever made ( not that they appreciate it ).

j


This coming summer I'll buy my first 44 inch printer. I was considering Canon or HP. I have read a ton of posts here over the years. I think I'll go with the z3200ps. My remote location (Yukon Territory) and intermittent printing combined with all the infos out there on how to fix problems (thank you Mr. Lindquist) plus a ton of other features/options/specs that are included with the printer make it a no brainer for me. Yes, I was also wondering what HP's plans are for the future supporting the printer but worst case scenario I'll buy the most needed spare parts sooner than later.
I think it's hopeless to wonder about the future of these products, what would HP gain if they said anything about a 'No Future' ? So they might as well keep quiet and enjoy business as usual.
William
Logged

iCanvas

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 157
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2016, 11:54:02 AM »

You won't be sorry. They are the most trouble free pigment printer on the market and twice the longevity of both the new Epson and Canon. Excellent BW as well, much better dmax on matte media, and if your head dies, it costs you $70.00. I don't care about the future either. They legally have to keep selling ink and heads for like 10 years after they discontinue the printers, and they are still making them. Only downside for me is they are slower than the others, but I don't care. Probably the best product HP ever made ( not that they appreciate it ).

j

If you are so pleased with the HP Z series why did you buy a Canon 8300? This is not a challenging question. Just curious. Please tell me the pluses and minuses of both. I am also in the market for a new 44" wide printer and will buying one shortly. Waiting for the new canon's to come out before making a decision.
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
Re: Will HP make a next-gen Z Series Printer?
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2016, 04:50:52 PM »

Well I have three 44" machines. The Canon, the HP, and the Epson 9890, and use them for different projects and different inks. The HP Z has image stability that is off the charts and I bought it before the others and it has out performed the others in terms of reliability. But I use the Canon a lot more because it is much faster and the output at even bidirectional is excellent.  Also it takes the big ink carts and for production work that makes sense. I use the HP for monochrome work on matt rag media primarily, and for my own color work and for those who really want the extra image permanence. To be honest, not that many people these days care about prints lasting more than 100-200 years or so, but I do. Who knows, our species might even last 400 years more, you never know. And prints exposed to a lot of bright daylight will hold up better on the Z.
 
If I were you I would wait to see what the deal is with the new Canons that haven't been released yet, and see how the new Epsons are holding up as well in regard to head issues. They certainly have improved the stability of their inkset this go around. It would be nice if Canon offers on more gray dilution to make an evenly spaced quad bw set, like the new Epson 11880 replacement. And who knows about HP, they could have something up their sleeve too. If you look at both the Canon and HP websites you'll see that they both make a lot of large format pigment and eco solvent printers. It seems like fine arts is small potatoes for all of them. I have to say Epson by far has the best website. It is annoying trying to find anything on the Canon and HP sites, they just jumble everything together.

I do think that for someone who does a modest amount of printing and really cares about longevity, and bw on matte media, the Z is a good deal, and if you do need a head it is dirt cheap but very durable. It is also MUCH easier to set up and move around. It's so much lighter and takes up less space than the others.

john

If you are so pleased with the HP Z series why did you buy a Canon 8300? This is not a challenging question. Just curious. Please tell me the pluses and minuses of both. I am also in the market for a new 44" wide printer and will buying one shortly. Waiting for the new canon's to come out before making a decision.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Up