Can you Teach Creativity?

[RSL]

Russ,
With all due respect, I think you are being naïve. Give me an example of a great work of art which did not depend upon a degree of skill. The painter or photographer requires a skill to recognise a pleasing, meaningful or interesting composition which is relevant to his immediate goal. The painter needs the skill and dexterity to place the blobs of paint on the canvas where he wants them to be placed. The photographer needs the skill to operate the camera, frame the composition, press the shutter at the right time, and process the resulting  image to his own satisfaction.

To separate artistic talent from skill is a nonsense. They are both inextricably intertwined.

You need to read what I said more carefully, Ray. Of course an artist can't produce art without skill, but without creativity what the skilful artist is able to produce is the kind of crap you see in flea markets.

[AreBee]

Russ,

...without creativity what the skilful artist is able to produce is t he kind of crap you see in flea markets.

Without exercising creativity, skillful individuals produce world-class forgeries of artwork.

[RSL]

Good point, Bob. Some of those guys are really skillful at stealing the creativity of others.

[RSL]

"Creativity" doesn't produce original or unusual ideas or make something new or imaginative.

People do.

Talk about a non sequitur! Wow! Sounds like Credence's line: "Clouds of mystery pourin' confusion on the ground."

[AreBee]

Russ,

...without creativity what the skilful artist...

Oxymoron.

[RSL]

Good point Rob. Reconsidered: ". . .without creativity what the skilful worker. . ."

[AreBee]

Russ,

Please address me as Rob.

[RSL]

Okay. A slip of the finger.

[Isaac]

… but, in the end, nobody has changed anyone else's mind one iota.

That requires open-minded curiosity -- a willingness to change one's mind -- rather than defensive blanket assertion and non sequiturs.


As before --

IMO to the degree that this stuff is contentious it's so only amongst opposing ideologues who can't bring themselves to see beyond the boundaries of their respective dogma systems.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Raise your hands, oh you wise ones, who changed your mind one ioata, due to your open-minded curiosity! Do I see your hand up, Isaac?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Okay. A slip of the finger.

That one finger can be quite expressive by itself 

[TomFrerichs]

Yes.

Raise your hands, oh you wise ones, who changed your mind one iota, due to your open-minded curiosity! Do I see your hand up, Isaac?

Ah, but did it change your mind two iotas?  I mean, one iota is rare, but two?  That would be rara avis.



Tom Frerichs

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Yes.

Clever, Isaac, clever! To send me on a nine-page, wild-goose chase from three years ago to figure out what you meant. Nope.

Besides, I was referring to issues raised in this thread.

[Isaac]

Besides, I was referring to issues raised in this thread.

At least you brought something to the table: unfortunately it turned out to be a mish-mash of non sequiturs about gifted children.

The couple of references that seem to have something to do with "creativity" date back to 1962 and 1989 ("Do the family lives of highly creative youth differ from those with ordinary ability? Yes they do in a number of important ways, which will be described in this article.")

Those articles are behind a paywall.

[kencameron]

Raise your hands, oh you wise ones, who changed your mind one ioata, due to your open-minded curiosity! Do I see your hand up, Isaac?

As someone suggested, that's not setting the bar very high. I probably have had my mind changed something not too far short of one iota, in the general direction of recognising that there is something to be said for the "either you have it or you don't" perspective on these issues (as well as plenty to be said against it).  But I am certainly here to improve my own understanding rather than change anyone else's mind. A (slightly) more realistic objective, maybe.


I did enjoy the list of synonyms for "iota" produced by googling it:


[color=rgb(135, 135, 135) !important]

synonyms:bit, mite, speck, scrap, shred, ounce, scintilla, atom, jot, tittle, jot or tittle, whit, little bit, tiniest bit, particle, fraction, morsel, grain; soupçon; informalsmidgen, smidge, tad; archaicscruple, scantling[/t][/color]

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I did enjoy the list of synonyms for "iota" produced by googling it...

Now that we are off-topic, it is equally interesting that the same word, used in the same expression, exists in my mother tongue (a Slavic language). Probably no wonder, given its Greek origin.

There you go, Ken, I expanded your linguistic horizon for one more iota today

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

I haven't yet decided whether I have changed my mind one tittle or one soupçon.

[Colorado David]

It was bound to come to this eventually. Here you go. Tittles and assets. Okay run with it.

[Ray]

Hey! If it's true that creativity cannot be taught, maybe that's a wonderful blessing. There seems to be some scientific evidence that genetically based creativity is linked to mental disorders such schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

If that's true, I guess I'd prefer to 'learn' my creativity. 

http://www.livescience.com/51125-creativity-genetically-linked-psychiatric-disorders.html

In the study, researchers looked at genetic material from more than 86,000 people in Iceland and identified genetic variants that were linked with an increased risk of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. The investigators then looked for these variants in a group of more than 1,000 people who were members of national societies of artists, including visual artists, writers, actors, dancers and musicians in Iceland.
The study revealed that the people in these artistic societies were 17 percent more likely to carry those variants linked with the mental health conditions than were people in the general population, who were not members of these societies.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2013/sep/19/born-creative-study-brain-hemingway

So, are we born creative or not? While factors such as upbringing play a crucial role in your brain's development, the work done by scientists in Scandinavia, Germany and the US has shown that having the right genetic makeup can make your brain more inclined towards creative thinking. The rest of us have to "learn" to be creative.

[Rob C]

Hey! If it's true that creativity cannot be taught, maybe that's a wonderful blessing. There seems to be some scientific evidence that genetically based creativity is linked to mental disorders such schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

If that's true, I guess I'd prefer to 'learn' my creativity. 

http://www.livescience.com/51125-creativity-genetically-linked-psychiatric-disorders.html

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2013/sep/19/born-creative-study-brain-hemingway

Now that we've obviously passed from the grave discourse level into the light relief one, I think I have licence to agree with what you have just mentioned. In  fact I think it's almost a given: many of the creativos of my ken appear to have a proclivity for sadness and mood swings, not least of all myself. Yesterday was a clear example: from finally discovering the whereabouts of my missing Amazon package, a clear signal for utter joy, I went on to dine and appreciated that too, as well as a pleasant conversation with mine host, quite enjoyable really, as during his winter holiday a notice had appeared on his window stating that the place was up for transfer due to retirment, which would/will cause another frantic rush for altenatives if/when he can shift it... then later in the afternoon I went off to pick up a replacement Samsung battery for my cellphone - after another two-weeks wait - and returned to base armed with four AA/LR6 batteries for the Amazon purchase - a pair of Pocket Wizards.

I batteried everything up, fitted one transceiver to the camera and the other to the jack plug socket of my monobloc and nothing happened. Yes! End of euphoria, made even worse by realising that there seems no solution in the form of a simple cable that will allow me to fit those Wizards even to the other unit, a Metz 60 CT 1/2. The simple version of the needed cable would have a female version of a camera PC socket at one end, and a male plug at the other to fit into the transceiver socket. Their official offering (out of stock) consists of old Metz cables refubished to fit both the Metz 8-contact special plug at one end and the Wiz at the other, far more complex than one needs, I guess. As the Wizard in the factory ain't that bloody smart after all, and if JK Rowling can't make it happen, then maybe Kathleen Winsor can. I need to consult, but not any white coats, those of my acquaintance similary given to the shifting sands of mood...

So yes, mood swings are for real, and rather than signs of mental disorder perhaps more correctly seen as signs of rapid appreciation of changing circumstances.

Rob C