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Author Topic: deconvolution sharpening plug in  (Read 54664 times)

Robert Ardill

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #140 on: February 26, 2016, 03:01:23 pm »


Imageprocessing of natural images is a process where a lot of trade-offs need to be made, and some image content is better suited for one approach, while other image content benefits from another approach, and they are often combined in the same image. The need for sharpening is inherently linked to the capture process, which blurs image content, and resampling also blurs and/or reduces contrast. Therefore there is no single best solution. But if our tools allow a good preview of what the effects are, and we use some of the insights we can get from analyzing images with tools like Imatest, we can get quite far.


Thanks for your reply Bart.  I'm certainly much more aware now of how easy it is to damage an image than I was.  And also of how important it is to get the capture as right as possible so that it isn't subsequently necessary to do things like straightening the image.  Or, for example, if we are taking pictures of things that we do not want to be distorted (like buildings) that we would be well advised to use a lens with minimal distortion if we want the best sharpness.  After that ... use all adjustments with care and in the right order ... and, as you say, experimenting with test images and with tools like Imatest does inform and help quite a lot.

Regarding the tool preview ... that's really my biggest bitch with Focus Magic: the preview is really not great!  Still, by putting the amount up to 300% it's possible to judge the best radius without too much trouble.  I think the blend-if is good; I also think that using the layer opacity is good as it allows one to reduce the strength of the sharpening very easily, quickly, and visually (or use the Fade adjustment as this is very good too).

Robert
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Robert Ardill

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #141 on: February 26, 2016, 03:12:24 pm »

What we really need is better Capture sharpening tools in the Raw converter. Most of the current 'solutions' also cause a lot of confusion and issues, and most of that is avoidable, IMHO.

I know that this I am asking an unanswerable question because the answer probably depends on the image and what we are going to do with it in post-processing.

But I'll ask it anyway.  What do you think is the best sharpening workflow? Assuming Lightroom and Photoshop;  and that there will be either upsampling or downsampling for output;  and that we have a well-taken image with a good lens and camera.

I will understand if you are too weary of the subject to answer :)

Robert
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Robert Ardill

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #142 on: February 26, 2016, 03:32:58 pm »

Ugh, right.  Two things:

1) I forgot one setting for the preset: 'Suppress Artifacts = 0.2'
2) How are these images getting to InFocus?  The settings I gave are for capture sharpening unsharpened raw images, if they have already been pre-sharpened by LR for instance all bets are off.


Hi Jack,

Still doesn't work for me.  I am using an image from Lightroom with sharpening off (everything off in fact) and here is the result:



If I use a smaller radius (even 1.9) I don't get the ringing.  If I reduce the Edge Softness (with a Blur Radius of 2) the artifacts are also reduced.  But even then, I have to put Suppress Artifacts to max before I get a clean image.

Robert
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Robert Ardill

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #143 on: February 26, 2016, 03:37:51 pm »


Robert, would you care to make a raw of your test shot available, let me try Iridient on it, and then analyse it with Imatest?

Yes, sure.  It's the same image I've been using all along (to try to keep comparing apples to apples).

Slanted Edge Test Image

Robert
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Hening Bettermann

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #144 on: February 26, 2016, 04:27:12 pm »

Many thanks, Robert. - Which output color space did you use when processing the raw?

Robert Ardill

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #145 on: February 26, 2016, 04:53:11 pm »

Many thanks, Robert. - Which output color space did you use when processing the raw?

AdobeRGB.

Cheers

Robert
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earlybird

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #146 on: February 26, 2016, 05:24:49 pm »

Just curious, did you try InFocus' one-click mode as described earlier?

EDIT: Including the setting that I forgot, 'Suppress Artifacts = 0.2'

Hi Jack,
 No I did not, mainly because when I click estimate blur nothing changes in the parameter values so it seems like mystery meat to me, and also because I enjoy making the extra choices that you may with InFocus.

 On your suggestion I just tried it while following your directions. The results seem very similar to piccure+ in that the Estimate Blur process in InFocus generated a easily visible dark line with a lighter line on running parallel along each side.

 Thank you for the reminder.
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Hening Bettermann

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #147 on: February 26, 2016, 05:46:22 pm »

Here's my first attempt, Iridient everything zero, Iridients camera color profile, but tone curve linear. Sharpening Iridient Reveal, radius 0.8 by eyesight, rest default.
Well that was the thought. But
"Your attachment has failed security checks and cannot be uploaded. Please consult the forum administrator." ??
It's a 66 kB TIF containing a 70x135 px crop of the slanted edge target.

Robert Ardill

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #148 on: February 27, 2016, 04:06:34 am »


"Your attachment has failed security checks and cannot be uploaded. Please consult the forum administrator." ??
It's a 66 kB TIF containing a 70x135 px crop of the slanted edge target.

Hi Hening ... if you could send me a tif crop of the sharpened image to robert@irelandupclose.com I will run it through Imatest.

Cheers

Robert
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Hening Bettermann

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #149 on: February 27, 2016, 05:06:41 am »

Thank you Robert. Mail with attachment is on its way.

TonyW

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #150 on: February 27, 2016, 06:30:23 am »

Still doesn't work for me.  I am using an image from Lightroom with sharpening off (everything off in fact) and here is the result:

If I use a smaller radius (even 1.9) I don't get the ringing.  If I reduce the Edge Softness (with a Blur Radius of 2) the artifacts are also reduced.  But even then, I have to put Suppress Artifacts to max before I get a clean image.

Robert
Hi Robert
Curious, so I had a look at your original and used the same settings.  I am not getting the same result as you.  The attached shows original and Topaz at 100% view and at closer to your screenshot 200%.  I would also add that Smart Sharpen does the job just as well in this case ( a little more noise perhaps but irrelevant for print IMHO)

EDIT:  The only change I made to your original was to apply ACR Lens corrections and Remove CA.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 06:40:09 am by TonyW »
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Robert Ardill

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #151 on: February 27, 2016, 06:46:25 am »

Hi Robert
Curious, so I had a look at your original and used the same settings.  I am not getting the same result as you.  The attached shows original and Topaz at 100% view and at closer to your screenshot 200%.  I would also add that Smart Sharpen does the job just as well in this case ( a little more noise perhaps but irrelevant for print IMHO)

EDIT:  The only change I made to your original was to apply ACR Lens corrections and Remove CA.

Very curious indeed Tony.  I've tried again with ACR lens correction and remove CA and I get the same ringing.  Are you using this original file?

Slanted Edge Raw File

Robert
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TonyW

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #152 on: February 27, 2016, 06:49:32 am »

Yes Robert the same file link you posted earlier in the thread: Reply #143. 
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Robert Ardill

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #153 on: February 27, 2016, 07:12:07 am »

Yes Robert the same file link you posted earlier in the thread: Reply #143.

Weird ... I'm using InFocus 1.0.0 Win 64.  And you?
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TonyW

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #154 on: February 27, 2016, 07:59:29 am »

Weird ... I'm using InFocus 1.0.0 Win 64.  And you?
Same version 1.0.0 on Windows 10 64bit
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Robert Ardill

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #155 on: February 27, 2016, 08:26:39 am »

Same version 1.0.0 on Windows 10 64bit

I can't explain it Tony.  The only way it works for me is to put a radius of between 1 and 1.9.  Anything at or above 2 gives major artifacts.

Robert
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Jack Hogan

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #156 on: February 27, 2016, 09:57:52 am »

Hi Jack,

Still doesn't work for me.  I am using an image from Lightroom with sharpening off (everything off in fact) and here is the result:

Interesting, that typically works decently with natural images but definitely not here.

Jack
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TonyW

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #157 on: February 27, 2016, 10:15:00 am »

I can't explain it Tony.  The only way it works for me is to put a radius of between 1 and 1.9.  Anything at or above 2 gives major artifacts.

Robert
I confess no idea why the results should be so different between our systems. 

In any case I think 2 is too much for this image as I can see artifacts around the 'staple' and square on my image, and as the purpose (assuming capture sharpening?) is to remove initial blur to make ready for creative and final output sharpening I would be concerned that the artifacts may harm the final image
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #158 on: February 27, 2016, 11:36:10 am »

Ugh, right.  Two things:

1) I forgot one setting for the preset: 'Suppress Artifacts = 0.2'
2) How are these images getting to InFocus?  The settings I gave are for capture sharpening unsharpened raw images, if they have already been pre-sharpened by LR for instance all bets are off.

Yes, that's one of the main difficulties people tend to have, making a distiction between Capture sharpening (which only tries to restore Capture blur) and creative/output sharpening (which enhances the impression of sharpness).

BTW Infocus 'Estimate' does best if zoomed in to a well focused area with lots of detail in all sorts of directions.

Cheers,
Bart
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: deconvolution sharpening plug in
« Reply #159 on: February 27, 2016, 11:39:22 am »

@#134
Thanks again, Bart.

> What we really need is better Capture sharpening tools in the Raw converter.

1- But that would seldom be the output size.

What I was implying was that if the Capture sharpening is done well at the Capture size (maybe even before/during demosaicing), then we have a much easier job with final sharpening at any size.

Cheers,
Bart
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