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Author Topic: D500: Nikon admits defeat, but takes the title!  (Read 19847 times)

Dan Wells

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Re: D500: Nikon admits defeat, but takes the title!
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2016, 02:11:37 pm »

Two questions: Why not a built in flash commander (but no actual flash)? That covers many of the uses people are talking about (although not the kids putzing in the backyard). I've never seen a camera (from any maker) that includes one, apart from medium format, and I've always been mystified by the omission. If it was an optical commander, there would need to be a window in the body somewhere (and the D500 doesn't have an AF illluminator, whose window would do just fine - modern high power LEDs can put a lot of light (even IR) out a little hole). An RF commander wouldn't require a visible hole, but would require the antenna to have SOME non-metallic egress (under the top display?) Through the lens mount initially seems obvious, but could be blocked pretty easily by a 600 mm f4!

The second question I've had is "why no high resolution version of either the D5 or the D500"? There is an obvious sensor problem for the D500 - no production sensor enough higher resolution to be worthwhile. There are rumors floating around of a Sony 36 MP APS-C sensor, but also hints that it might not be a great performer if it exists. The A6100 has been delayed several times, and Fuji executives, asked "why 24 MP" about the X-Pro 2 have hinted that they looked at higher resolution options and didn't like them as much. This could simply be the Samsung 28 MP sensor (which I'm almost sure is for sale to any camera maker who wants it), but it could also mean that Fuji had a look at the 36 MP sensor and didn't like what they saw.

A sensor appropriate for a D5x DOES exist - the A7rII sensor would be an excellent choice. It's not a whole lot higher resolution than a D810, but it is a better performer overall, and it would satisfy folks wanting a big-body "x" camera. I don't know why we haven't seen a Sony 54 MP full-frame sensor anywhere - it's easy to do (take the 24 MP APS-C sensor and make a full-frame version of it), and that 24 MP sensor has been a great performer for a while, but the reports coming from photographers who've used the latest version in pre-production X-Pro 2 bodies (which is at least a full sensor generation ahead of any other version of the Sony 24 MP APS-C sensor) are simply stunning (it doesn't seem to give ANYTHING up to 24 MP full-frame). A 54 MP full-frame sensor based on the X-Pro 2 sensor would cause some trepidation at Phase One headquarters in Copenhagen (not to mention increased Alka-Seltzer sales in the immediate vicinity of Canon HQ)...
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Hulyss

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Re: D500: Nikon admits defeat, but takes the title!
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2016, 02:45:00 pm »

I think you ask yourself too much questions, Dan.

Whatever we want, anyway, things are what they are. Just just wait and see and continue to use what you have and buy what you need. The market is so complete today that everything seems possible.
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dwswager

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Re: D500: Nikon admits defeat, but takes the title!
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2016, 05:06:26 pm »

I don't think you do.

Creating a larger viewfinder, by removing the pop-up flash, increases the ability to "see" through the viewfinder, a vital element to nature photography.

Taking a photo of your kid "putzing around" is hardly "professional imagery" ... which is why the D7000 is perfect for those kind of owners.

That the D500 removes the pop-up flash, paying no heed to amateurs trying to take a photo of their kid "putzing around" only underscores its target market: pros, not amateurs.

I think Nikon responded to the calling of its fans, and resurrected the D3s, inflated it beyond anyone's expectations, and flushed all the traces of "amateur" down the drain with its specifications.

The Nikon D300/D300s replacement was the most talked about camera in the history of Nikon cameras!  The D300/D300s was wildly popular precisely because it appealed to both amateurs and professionals.  The D500 is the closest thing to that replacement as we can get.  They gave us more performance than one would have expected and removed the flash.

For people who don't know Nikon or foolishly think the D500 is a D2h or D3s replacement, I hate to break this news.  If that was the case, it would have been called the Dx5, would look almost identical to the D5, would have the same level of durability and reliability (Nikon's main definition of professional) as the D5 and would have a selling price of around $5000.  You have to remember, Nikon doesn't want to have a professional DX camera! 

Don't take my word for it, take Nikon's word: Nikon Enthusiast Line of Cameras w/ D500 front and center!  I'm actually surpised they do list the D810 and D810A as professional cameras since they violate the durability and reliability parameter.

I will add that I suspect the flash was removed because a lot of professionals wanted a DX sensor camera and Nikon is currently not intending to release a Dx5 for them.  That is why the D500 has a lot of pro features (No flash, 10 pin terminal, Button Interface body, round eyepiece, etc), but is marketed as Enthusiast.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 05:24:04 pm by dwswager »
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razrblck

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Re: D500: Nikon admits defeat, but takes the title!
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2016, 04:15:31 am »

Why not a built in flash commander (but no actual flash)?

This should've been the center of the argument from the start. The D500 could've used the integrated wireless commander like the D5 has. I assume it was skipped to save some money, but frankly Nikon should've made it part of the camera to make their new wireless flash system a viable alternative without the need for bits sticking out from the left side.

The second question I've had is "why no high resolution version of either the D5 or the D500"?

They have the D8x0 line for high resolution (but slower workflow) cameras. The D5 has always been about speed and low light quality. The D500 mirrors that, being also lower in resolution than other DX bodies but having (at least on paper) much higher and cleaner ISO ratings. This also shows that they are not targeted to every market but specific jobs, despite the fact that you can use them for whatever.

The Nikon D300/D300s replacement was the most talked about camera in the history of Nikon cameras!  The D300/D300s was wildly popular precisely because it appealed to both amateurs and professionals.  The D500 is the closest thing to that replacement as we can get.  They gave us more performance than one would have expected and removed the flash.

There is still a lot of confusion.

The D500 is not a successor to the D3s, it's a successor to the once top of the line DX cameras that were replaced with full frame ones after the D3.
Nikon used to push DX real hard, but the lack of proper DX lenses made professionals demand for a full frame camera to fully utilize all the full frame lenses available. We still lack a full DX lens lineup because after the D3 introduction Nikon basically regarded DX as amateur stuff.

But professionals wanted DX for reach and size, so they turned around again and released the D500.

As for the positioning, you can't take what the Nikon USA website classify as the ultimate proof. The D500 marketing material states that it is a professional camera. Nikon USA groups them up by price. Nikon Europe website has the D500 fall under the professional label (go here http://www.europe-nikon.com/en_GB/products/category_pages/digital_cameras/category_SLR.page? and in Narrow By: select Professional under Photography level). The global Nikon website doesn't even make a distinction between levels, but they state it is a professional camera in press releases and the official microsite.

There will never be a Dx5. Nikon will never name a camera this way, they have a different naming scheme and this would sound just too confusing to customers. They went for D500 because it was available and people were expecting the D400 already, so they wanted to capitalize on that. They could've called it "The second coming" for all we care, it won't change what the camera actually is and what it is not.

There D300 successor so many were waiting will never come. The market has changed and Nikon is going in a different direction. As I said before, the closest thing this D500 gets to is the D2x/D2h line, with the vertical grip removed to emphasize the portability of the crop sensor cameras compared to the full frame alternative (D5).

Quoting again the official Nikon description of this camera because I have to hit this nail in the head a lot harder than I thought:

Quote
Meet the D500: itís a compact powerhouse fusing the highest performance of Nikonís professional D5 with the unique agility of the DX format. Portable and powerful, the D500 will galvanize the way you shoot stills and video.
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dwswager

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Re: D500: Nikon admits defeat, but takes the title!
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2016, 09:41:07 am »

As for the positioning, you can't take what the Nikon USA website classify as the ultimate proof. The D500 marketing material states that it is a professional camera. Nikon USA groups them up by price. Nikon Europe website has the D500 fall under the professional label (go here http://www.europe-nikon.com/en_GB/products/category_pages/digital_cameras/category_SLR.page? and in Narrow By: select Professional under Photography level). The global Nikon website doesn't even make a distinction between levels, but they state it is a professional camera in press releases and the official microsite.

There D300 successor so many were waiting will never come. The market has changed and Nikon is going in a different direction. As I said before, the closest thing this D500 gets to is the D2x/D2h line, with the vertical grip removed to emphasize the portability of the crop sensor cameras compared to the full frame alternative (D5).

Bottomline:  It doesn't matter.  I've always found Nikon USA's Professional, Enthusiast, Consumer branding stupid.  The D500 will sell like mad with respect to other cameras.  That is because it meets the needs of professionals wanting a professional DX body and the D300/D300s update crowd.  That it might tilt a little more one way or the other is immaterial.  Nikon obviously believes they can fulfill this slot with 1 camera rather than having a strictly professional DX body (with identical specs to the D5) and a lesser body targeted at the 7DmkII.  They might be right since I am of the D300 update crowd and will own the D500.

All I know is a lot of us in various segments are doing a very happy dance!
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armand

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