50mpixel CMOS Show down(not a test)....usage adaptations

[Doug Peterson]

YES, I think with information overload I must have deleted the 14vs16bit washout. thanks for refresh!

I dropped the thought of the Pentax 645z as I cant deal with a couple things......1/125 flash sync(last place I read), the mounting to a 4x5 is not that ideal, the software and tether to deal with is another area that has had some issues.

I know I would be giving up a LOT of field advantage, and thats where the Pentax would be great, but that's not my main intention for a MF DB.

(BTW, I miss interpreted the Whitesheet info on the DR difference for IQ 250 vs 150, Sorry bout that)

Looks like a CFV-50c maybe the way to go for my needs.....Unless a deal falls on my head on a great Credo 50 or IQ150, 250 etc.
Maybe the new location is hiring for some part time work and I can work part of it off, ya Doug?

Phil,

I'm obviously biased, but I can't imagine you making this choice without coming to our office and playing with a Credo 50V kit. The sales promo that includes the Actus makes for a great combo and a view camera one can reasonably work with. Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread (it's 6am here and I'm heading to airport) but I don't think you mentioned which "4x5" you'd be using and in general the legacy 4x5 systems are frustrating to use, especially at the wide end, when coupled with a high res back due to focus precision needed for the smaller focal lengths used with a digital back as compared to film, and are needlessly large and heavy (their extra size/weight present to support a film format MUCH larger than medium format digital). The Actus precision and size are a much better match, and could be easily converted for mirror less cameras of you decide to go that direction in the future.

Whether the system you pick is 5, 10, or 20k it is still a lot of money and warrants an afternoon playing with the options you're considering (ours and the others as well).

Now that we have a physical office location in LA it isn't much work to set up an appointment to do this. Numbers on a website pale to the usefulness of making images with each option. Plus I think you know how good a coffee Ken makes 

And yes, our LA office is hiring to expand the permanent staff there .

[Phil Indeblanc]

Hi Doug,

I'm using a SinarP2.
I like the flow I have with it for tabletop. I prefer manual over all the electronic lenses and  metering stuff.
Now I cock the shutter, wake the back and fire, refocus, repeat.(every few I get a static elec fire which I don't know where it comes from).
Even with these hinderences, I can't see myself going more in price and getting a kit, even if its $10K off the $25K price. Looking for a new DB was mainly to improve or minimize my macro work, and to hope in being able to take it on a portable system for some field work. It would be a major plus to rely on the DB screen for accurate focus, so that zooming would be important.

If down the line I see a 645 body to be of good use, great. But I have the RZ entire kit with just about every conceivable option. I have hardly used it.
I am not likely to get much in selling it($?), but putting it to use on the field maybe a bit heavy and bulky, but I don't see it being a problem for now, and I can use it in the studio for non-macro work.

I don't looking at making a purchase to unlock what can be possible. I am looking to make a purchase with the least hit to my wallet, with the maximum return. When I started, I sure did make those novice moves of getting a bunch of gear, which half I hardly ever use and could have easily rented.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a kit and all. I'm a techi. Yet its just not wise for me to put myself in that position. It has to be a tool with a direct purpose. If that makes much sense. But I will come to the office for more info on the 50 and pick up a job app!

[LKaven]

[...] The reason Hassy stores all bits noise and all I guess they didn't think it made the files so much bigger so they didn't really care. And sure if you use 16 bit in marketing it's even more embarrassing if you don't even store the bits. But sure those making the camera design know their stuff and have known all along that 16 bit marketing is, well, a lie.

The reason it was used in the first place I think is because the salesmen wanted some easy ways to convince the customer of a superior product. [..]

The CCD-based cameras needed outboard A-D converters.  The most common off-the-shelf converters were 16 bit converters. 

Apparently marketing firms could not resist the temptation to tart up their materials with vague claims about delivering 16 bits while purposely neglecting to mention that at least 3 of those bits were completely useless.

[ErikKaffehr]

Yes,

And photographers unfortunately swallowed that now everybody feels that image quality of MFD is superior due to those 16 bits.

A big sensor has some advantages, though, just not the ones usually claimed :-)

Best regards
Erik

The CCD-based cameras needed outboard A-D converters.  The most common off-the-shelf converters were 16 bit converters. 

Apparently marketing firms could not resist the temptation to tart up their materials with vague claims about delivering 16 bits while purposely neglecting to mention that at least 3 of those bits were completely useless.

[Transposure]

Unless I missed it, also consider the physical size of the sensor relative to the image circle produced by your RZ.

http://www.mamiyaleaf.com/credo.html

The Credo 60 and 80 are physically larger than the Credo 50 (53.9x40.4mm vs. 44x33mm).  You will simply capture more of the image projected onto the film/sensor plane.  This was a factor in my choice for a Credo 60 that I use between the RZ and 645 DF+.

[Ken R]

Of the 50mp CMOS backs I would choose a used PhaseOne IQ150 if at all possible if I can't go up to the wifi Phase models. The screen, the software, the tethering, the interface, the reliability, the service and resale value. All superb among other things.

Close second would be the Credo 50. Basically close to the IQ150 in features.

Distant third would be the Hasselblad 50c. The Hassy is good but the mediocre screen is a hindrance when out in the field and I do not love the software but it is good. The V mount I do not love although it might work for you.

The Phase and Credo are more expensive but the Hasselblad is still $10k. Its not like its free and that is a lot of $ to have to settle with a back that you might not love and might not work great for you. (might as well use one of the top DSLRs)

I would at the very least talk to a dealer and check out the Phase and Leaf alternatives and talk about price. Its free and at the very least you get to check out some really cool gear. 

[Theodoros]

By the way... I wonder why Hasselblad doesn't provide the CF-V (meaning a CF) for other mounts than Hassy too... Can't they see that if they do it, they will gain even more customers? Providing the back for Contax 645 mount, should be enough for the hundreds of (the better) wedding pros that use C645 cameras around the world, as to add an MFDB in their gear and abandon (having great LL ability) DSLR use altogether... Let alone all the rest of C645 (and other) camera users....

It's funny how slow they are in Hasselblad as to "catch" the pulse of the market... Especially when they are on top...

Common guys! ...bring the CF backs back! It costs you nothing (no research) as to do.... you are only loosing customers by not doing so! ...and don't forget the multishot versions of the back... right?

[Theodoros]

Phil... go for the CFV hands down... Other than the price you are a pro and you'll get access to the world's most accurate and easy calibration system for "dead-on" color... (improved further to the Sinar's one - same method but more informative card used) ...and on top you save a fortune!

[Drew Harty]

So out of the different CMOS 50mpixel sensor adaptations, which is the least expensive and best suited for 4x5, AND hopefully use on a MF portable camera system, preferrably a Mamiya RZPro2? (Its what I have with all the glass. I might be better off getting a $1000 D version, but have a V adapter plate already).  Your thoughts....

So far I see...
Pentax 645z, not so great for using on a 4x5 at a $4000-new6800  /14bit
Hass CF-50c new at $6500-new $9500 /16bit?
Leaf Credo 50 at $20,000  /14bit?
Phase One IQ250 at $? /16bit?

any others models I missed with this sensor? Thanks!

I recently spent time evaluating the Credo 50 and CFV-50c and would like to suggest you choose a back based on your budget and the features you need, not on image quality. From what others have said, and from my experience, the differences in image quality will be small and could be compensated for in editing. For me, the Credo 50 was the best choice because I do severe swings and tilts on a view camera with the digital back. The larger, higher resolution screen on the Credo 50 and the much quicker navigation with the touch screen to select focus points at 100% view and to evaluate sharpness at 100% view made the Credo 50 worth the extra money over the CFV-50c. If you don't typically tilt and swing with your view camera, the CFV-50c might be a better choice.

Also, if your view camera doesn't have a geared tilt, it will be well worth the investment in a view camera that does. I would find it very difficult to focus on my Arca 6x9 without the orbix geared tilt, with or without a live-view back.

Drew Harty