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Author Topic: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape  (Read 145183 times)

haplo602

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2015, 07:14:35 am »

Hmm ... now I don't know what to do. At the moment I am on the "try 1 year and see" side.

Basically I am visiting LuLa periodically, however I mostly read the forums (and contribute almost nothing). The videos are not interesting to me and the articles are in the same category lately.

Depends on how the forums will change after the membership goes live.

Oh and what happens to existing accounts ? I mean when I log in after the change, can I convert my existing account to a membership one ?

(BTW this is the 2nd photography site that I frequent that changed from free and mostly reader generated content to membership paywall ... the other one died once forum access was cut off to free members)
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graeme

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #81 on: November 24, 2015, 07:15:02 am »

12 dollars per year seems  reasonable.

My main reservation is that new contributors will be deterred from joining the forums if they have to subscribe first. Maybe Michael & Kevin have a 'try before you buy' plan. I say this because I've had a growing feeling that LuLa could do with an influx of new blood & influences, that is input from younger, edgier & dare I say it, financially poorer photographers / artists both as forum members & writers of articles.

This site forum does feel like a place for rich old guys at times. Some of these rich old guys produce great work but most of them seem to be here to discuss gear & what they're going to buy next. ( I clicked a link to one contributor's blog & there weren't even any photos on it - it was all about what gear & software he used ).

No personal disrespect to any of the aforementioned rich old guys they mostly seem like decent people who've made their money because they're intelligent & hard working. ( But that doesn't mean that they've got a damn thing to say as visual artists ).

I too preferred the feel of the site when it was Michael's ( no disrespect to Kevin who seems like a thoroughly decent guy ).

The promised emphasis on printing in forthcoming site articles sounds interesting. ( But please get some interesting & provocative contributions from 'outsiders' just to piss us off & keep us on our toes ).

Good luck & thanks for all the good work.

Graeme
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simonphotos

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2015, 07:16:29 am »

This is ridiculous--ly cheap!
I pay more than this yearly subscription to my calendar and if doesn't give me anything like the info your site does.
Personally I would pay more than double that for a yearly subscription to your site.
Are you sure there aren't any catches especially if you are offering access to all the videos as well?
Personally I want to know where I can subscribe!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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philaitman

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2015, 07:19:01 am »

$12 a year is exceedingly cheap (OK it's not cheaper than free, but I'll argue a lot of free content doesn't match up to the video content on here. try finding something as comprehensive as C2P2S on youtube!)
I'll consider the forum free and the $12 a price for the videos. I'm happy with that.
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bill wood

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2015, 07:21:05 am »

Bravo, Bravo, Bravo.

As a former Video subscriber who was willing to fork over $100 when you ran a special, but not $150 on renewal because there was not that much new video content to make it worthwhile, I applaud your decision.

For what you put out content-wise $12 is nothing.  If you have a million readers a month, you should have a million subscribers.  I have loved LuLa since the first day I say it about 10 years ago.  And I love you guys for making me feel as if I am among friends when I watch your videos.

As I started to watch the video I was guessing what your subscription cost would be.  As I have subscribed to KelbyOne, Lynda.com, and LuLa in the past, let me say that I was floored!  As was said in the movies:  "You had me with 'Hello'".

I will happily be one more brick in the foundation.

Well done, Kevin and Michael!!

Bill Wood
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synn

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2015, 07:24:24 am »

Just wanted to also add, in the age of Google, people have taken "Free" as standard and have equated many "Wants" to "Needs".

If people who can pay thousands of dollars regularly for gear can't pay 12 bucks a year for access to some content, then the content is most definitely not a "Need", but a "Want".

Furthermore, there is no obligation for anyone to pay for this. If you find the content not worth the paltry price, feel free to vote with your wallet. I do that to Lloyd Chambers and his incredibly pedantic and artistically void "Tests". The Steve Huffs and Ken Rockwells of the world have enough free content for you where every latest thing is the "Best in the world" and a "Must buy" (Through the provided affiliate links, of course).

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Otto Phocus

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2015, 07:57:28 am »

...
I discovered LuLa browsing idly the Internet, because it was free. I would never register for a fee  on a new site without knowing what is its content !
My comment :
With this new policy you will maintain a fraction of your audience, but what about gaining new readers ?
I am interested to read about the answer to that subject, I don't doubt you have a clever one waiting

...

This is a very important question that I hope the owners of this site have carefully thought about.

Arguments can be made, between people already familiar with the content of this site, whether a subscription is worth it or not.  But people not already familiar with this site -- aka potential new members-- won't be able to tell whether it is worth it to them to subscribe. 

This the delicate balancing act that business people have to deal with all the time.  You want to give potentially new customers just enough content to convince them to start paying but not too much content that they feel there is no marginal benefit for paying. 

I agree with U_Grsl in that I would never have come to this site if it required any type of payment up front.  I am reluctant to purchase a swine in a shed.

It is easy for owners of sites like this to be lured into garnering a short term increase in revenue (existing happy customers now paying) but potentially losing future customers and inhibiting membership sustainability/growth.

I hope they have thought this out fully.

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stamper

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #87 on: November 24, 2015, 08:10:25 am »

Perhaps they feel that they have TOO many customers and subscribing is a way of trimming the number of visitors and existing members that don't add anything useful?

bns

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #88 on: November 24, 2015, 08:27:48 am »

I did not pay attention to this site for just one day. Was woken up by an email making the anouncement.
Thanks a lot Michael, Kevin and Chris. I will join at the earliest opportunity.

Best regards,
Boudewijn Swanenburg

Krug

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #89 on: November 24, 2015, 08:58:51 am »

When we (happily ?) pay large amounts of money for the equipment to enable us to make photographs I find it totally incomprehensible that anyone should think for more than a millisecond about paying this tiny amount for quality advice and information about potentially improving our use of that equipment - even if it is only by a small fraction of the equipment cost. Even a one percent improvement in a year - due to new information or shared experience would surely justify $12 - few of us have less than $1200 invested in our equipment I suspect, or if we do we are planning to have that or more.

I am not a rich man but I would happily pay $12 a month for the information, shared experience and sheer pleasure that LL gives me at many times a month, indeed sometimes several times a week in one way or another. Some contributors have stressed the "value" of this move but when I look at most of the "competition" out there I rather wish that the price had been set a little higher if only to give LL an even stronger position for both the present and the future.

Personally I do especially value Michael's input and influence but personal situations change over time and every organization has to change and develop to maintain itself in this competitive world.

Two practical suggestions seem to me to make a lot of sense.
First could you not give a free first month or 'x' number of viewings to enable new viewers to see the product before having to enrol - there does seem a lot of sense in the views that one would be unlikely to enrol "blind" so to speak, unless strongly recommended to do so by a friend or colleague.
Second the suggestion of a "Charter Membership" period or level with a small extra fee going to the Endowment might well be worth consideration.

Best wishes for this change and for a most successful future - without LL those interested in serious photography would be much the poorer.
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John Ashbourne
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amolitor

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #90 on: November 24, 2015, 09:10:19 am »

Some people seem to be missing my point. It's not that $12 is expensive. It's not.

The point is that for me personally, these sites have negative value. They're temptation to waste time I should spend elsewhere.

Frankly, a paywall is fantastic for me. The general diminution of the internet is working out very well for me as people flock to Facebook and a few other sites that I have not joined.

Some day I hope to have my life back.

This is a personal problem, not Lula's problem, not your problem. It's just me.

But, I probably represent a slice of the audience.
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Kevin Raber

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #91 on: November 24, 2015, 09:12:06 am »

Thank you for the feedback . . .  We do have a plan in place for people that are new coming to the site to see content.  We do have plans to offer educational institutions something special for their students.  We are also working on a way folks can try out the forum.  We will announce these once we are live and have tested them to make sure they work the way we'd like.  We are excited about the potential of some of the projects we have planned.  December will be a very busy month for us as we have some big projects in the works regarding printing (tease).  All of us are very dedicated to making Luminous-Landscape a success and a benefit for all our readers.
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Kevin Raber
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kencameron

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #92 on: November 24, 2015, 09:19:11 am »

Some people seem to be missing my point. It's not that $12 is expensive. It's not.

The point is that for me personally, these sites have negative value. They're temptation to waste time I should spend elsewhere.

Guilty as charged. Your post did make it seem as if you had some kind of problem with paying for entertainment. I certainly relate to having mixed feelings about photo sites, and the internet in general, as time wasters.
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Ken Cameron

stamper

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #93 on: November 24, 2015, 09:24:31 am »

Some people seem to be missing my point. It's not that $12 is expensive. It's not.

The point is that for me personally, these sites have negative value. They're temptation to waste time I should spend elsewhere.


The site helped you advertise a book you had written.....all for free.


amolitor

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #94 on: November 24, 2015, 09:30:23 am »

Ha ha! Good point! I had forgotten that.

I've probably sold... $5 worth of books this way.

Which, if I value the time I helplessly waste here at a penny an hour... is still a staggering loss.
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synn

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #95 on: November 24, 2015, 09:34:27 am »

Ha ha! Good point! I had forgotten that.

I've probably sold... $5 worth of books this way.

Which, if I value the time I helplessly waste here at a penny an hour... is still a staggering loss.

I'd buy the said book, but for me it hase negative value. It's a  temptation to waste time I should spend elsewhere.
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RonBoyd

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #96 on: November 24, 2015, 09:37:03 am »

Count me in!
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amolitor

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #97 on: November 24, 2015, 09:40:02 am »

My book is guaranteed to make you dumber. Nobody should buy it.

But that's probably enough about that? And maybe even enough insults for one thread?

Although one could argue that there's some people who haven't had a shot at me yet and they should get their turn.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #98 on: November 24, 2015, 09:49:50 am »

Considering how much I just spent on a set of snow tires whose only usefulness is not slipping on dirty roads, how could I hesitate on spending 12 US$ on Lula? :)

Cheers,
Bernard

aaron

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Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #99 on: November 24, 2015, 10:06:52 am »

$12 is fair but...

Including forum access as a paid resource is simply a bad idea.
A forums value lies in the contributions of its members, so you'll start to feel like your both paying the fee and creating the content.

I recommend splitting the forum access from the regular site access.
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