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Author Topic: The most revolutionary camera designs in photo history... suggest your top 3!  (Read 16839 times)

Theodoros

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Many insist on suggesting the 30D or the D1 for being revolutionary on picture taking, but none bothers to explain in what why ones photography was revolved because of them... Price or IQ are not revolving picture taking... only implementing extra abilities on the design does...
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ErikKaffehr

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Hi,

D30 was really the first affordable DSLR and it offered image quality similar to slide film, AFAIK. So it was a first. Actually the D30 was the camera that motivated Thomas Knoll to develop Camera Raw, as far as I know.

Going from film to digital is a revolution, is it not? It was released 17-th May 2000.

https://luminous-landscape.com/d30-vs-film/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_D30

Best regards
Erik






Many insist on suggesting the 30D or the D1 for being revolutionary on picture taking, but none bothers to explain in what why ones photography was revolved because of them... Price or IQ are not revolving picture taking... only implementing extra abilities on the design does...
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Erik Kaffehr
 

Theodoros

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Hi,

D30 was really the first affordable DSLR and it offered image quality similar to slide film, AFAIK. So it was a first. Actually the D30 was the camera that motivated Thomas Knoll to develop Camera Raw, as far as I know.

Going from film to digital is a revolution, is it not? It was released 17-th May 2000.

https://luminous-landscape.com/d30-vs-film/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_D30

Best regards
Erik

Going from film to digital is a revolution of technology, not a function (by itself) that affects the process of capturing images... Neither the process of picture taking is affected by the price of a product.
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Krug

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I am amazed that nobody has suggested the Minolta 7000.
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John Ashbourne
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NancyP

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Here's a design no-one has mentioned, possibly because of its age - Pinhole!
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Theodoros

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A lens without a focus mechanism is smaller than one with a focus mechanism, but that does not impact the optical performance. Most rangefinder lenses and many fixed-focal length SLR lenses consist of a barrel with the optics in place, the whole mechanism screws into a focus mount.

The 1936 Coated Zeiss 5cm F1.5 Sonnar performs as well in it's new Leica Thread Mount as it did in the original Contax mount.



Oh yes it does... if focusing is done by moving an internal group of elements, it does affect lens performance. The lenses that you mention which have the focusing mechanism as an exterior barrel to the design are in reality using the "barrel" instead of a bellows as to move the whole lens with respect to the image area. Yes, the legendary 1.5 Nokton has been used on many different cameras (leica m included) at the days.



I have two Voigtlander Prominents, with the 50/1.5 Nokton, 100/4 and 35/2.5. Nice optics, on par with Zeiss. The camera body is poorly thought out, the rangefinder mechanism is horrible. I've repaired one of them. The Voigtlander Vitessa has the worst rangefinder mechanism that I've seen.

The rangefinder focusing of the Prominent is not the most easy to use around but it is as accurate as with the competition, it was highly improved with the Prominent II and III that also replaced the "wheel" with a film wind lever... but it is still a function of the camera and I love the 35/50/100 revolving turnit and the build quality of the Prominent! Still there is no other 35mm camera with bellows focusing and flash sync at 1/500sec coming from... 1951! (PS. the prominent with 35/50 noct & 100 is still my first choice whenever I want to shoot with 35mm film....  :) )

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Theodoros

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I am amazed that nobody has suggested the Minolta 7000.

Why should one? The 7000 is second (four years later) to Nikon F3AF for bringing AF into the market...

EDIT: Actually, Minolta its third, Canon was second to Nikon by offering two lenses with AF ability that would work on all FD mount bodies...
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 10:08:27 am by Theodoros »
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Peter McLennan

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Here's a design no-one has mentioned, possibly because of its age - Pinhole!

Absolutely!  The very first camera. 
Good one, NancyP
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Theodoros

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Absolutely!  The very first camera. 
Good one, NancyP

I did mention the pinhole camera...  ;D Look back on No4, my quote to Ellis...  ;) The thing is that the pinhole camera (and the camera obscura) can't really be included because they are not production camera designs (they are rather principals)... but it is nice to be discussed if one wishes...  :)
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Theodoros

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If you are talking about lenses that focus by moving only the front element not being as good as lenses that focus by moving the entire group, then I can agree. That would be a lens such as on the Polaroid SX70, the Prominent  Skoparon 35/3.5, and Voigtlander Prominent 100/4.5 Dynaron. Glad I looked, found an entire set of Walz filters made for the Prominent lenses that I forgot about. The rear group of the Voigtlander wide-angle and telephoto lenses remains stationary and only the front group moves as you focus using the Knob. It is a compromise, the focal length changes as you focus.


Actually I seriously wonder if you really have ever used a Prominent Brian... There is no element moving on the Skoparon nor on the Dynaron or any Prominent lens... There isn't even a focusing ring on the lenses... the Prominent focuses by expanding or retracting a (small) bellows which has the lens mount "bayonet" at the end of it!   ;D
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Theodoros

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You really don't understand this at all. The 35mm and 100mm lenses bayonet to the camera body, the internal mount pushes on a collar that is around the rear element. The rear element is fixed in place, the front group moves with the collar.


Before I posted, I picked up my 100/4.5 Dynaron and tested it. Look at yours. There is a collar around the rear element. Push that collar, the rear element stays in place- the front element moves. This is how the rangefinder mechanism translates movement for the normal 50mm lens to accommodate other focal lengths. Regarding the Rangefinder, I repaired mine. Have you ever taken yours apart?

Hard to believe I did this one 8 years ago. And finding an original Prominent Body Cap- that was hard. I have a set on contrast filters for the Nokton, will use it on the M Monochrom via an adapter. I use it on a Nikon S2.

The RF did not work because one of the screws had sheered off. Much better now. Adjusting the RF on Voigtlander cameras defies description.

Aaaaah.... I must admit you got me here! I thought all this time that the Dynaron works like the Skoparon (no they don't work the same...) and just checked!

Now the Dynaron is like you say... The Skoparon has DUAL rings on the back... one moves the whole lens until the focus is near (there is no movement of front element until that point - the whole lens is pushed into the barrel) and then the second ring activates only the front element for the nearest last meter or so... I thought the Dynaron was the same as the Skoparon all this time! Thanks for sharing that, (please check with the Skoparon - your turn  ;) ). There are two "pushers" on it, only the later one pushes the front element out for the nearest part of focusing... Thanks for sharing, I honestly never bothered to check that the Dynaron was different!
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BrianVS

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I did check the Skoparon- and indeed the rear element is not fixed, and does move relative to the camera and relative to the front element. It is essentially a "Zoom"!

I like the Prominent- it's an interesting design with a lot of trade-offs to keep a leaflet shutter. It uses Two sets of shutter blades to prevent light leaks. The camera on the right was $50 with the Nokton, needed the shutter to be flood-cleaned. It took a while to get both sets of shutter blades operating.
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tnargs

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The Brownie
The AE-1
The iPhone

 8)
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Theodoros

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I think none suggested up to know the camera that could be one of the favorites for the titles of the "absolute king" of innovation... the Seitz Roundshot 220VR... A camera that I have used extensively and have easy access on whenever I needed (the now old owner would never separate it, but is glad to lend it to me whenever I need it...) 

https://luminous-landscape.com/roundshot/

EDIT: I will be glad to explain how it works and what it does for those that would be interesting... it's really an amazing product even with today's standard...   
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 06:54:42 pm by Theodoros »
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LesPalenik

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What's the going price these days for Seitz 220VR?
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Theodoros

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What's the going price these days for Seitz 220VR?

Don't know... I've seen some on e-bay a couple of years earlier around 2.5K euros and I know that my old friend that lends it to me has payed some 35K on 1996 when he bought it new in Switzerland... but I think that prices are now going up than what they where a couple of years ago as its not widely available and it can provide a very serious income for pros if used in demanding situations...

"Mine"  :) is in Nikon mount with no shift on it, but I don't mind that as I mainly use a Nikkor  35mm f2.8 PC or the 85mm f2.8 micro PC with it...
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LesPalenik

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Don't know... I've seen some on e-bay a couple of years earlier around 2.5K euros and I know that my old friend that lends it to me has payed some 35K on 1996 when he bought it new in Switzerland... but I think that prices are now going up than what they where a couple of years ago as its not widely available and it can provide a very serious income for pros if used in demanding situations...

"Mine"  :) is in Nikon mount with no shift on it, but I don't mind that as I mainly use a Nikkor  35mm f2.8 PC or the 85mm f2.8 micro PC with it...

Thanks, Theodoros
They were indeed amazing machines, especially for that time. I used both versions, Super 35 and Super 220VR. Also with Nikon lenses. Made a few really long frames with a 400mm lens (used the entire length of film for one very long frame).
 

 
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Theodoros

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Thanks, Theodoros
They were indeed amazing machines, especially for that time. I used both versions, Super 35 and Super 220VR. Also with Nikon lenses. Made a few really long frames with a 400mm lens (used the entire length of film for one very long frame).

The version of the 220vr I have access on, is a dual head one with both the 35 & the MF film heads included, but the 35mm is never used. I've used the older Nikkor 300mm AF-D f4 with it to keep the height short as the horizontal AOV is independent of focal length but in most cases, I find the 85PC to be perfect for it with some shift, the problem with the 85 PC is that the tilt functions always at 90 degs difference than the shift and thus in most cases one has to use one or the other than both... The huge advantage of the PC lenses is of course their wider image circle which is very helpful (especially if shifted) since the lens is mounted at 90degs angle and shoots with its diagonal as height....

At the begging, I used the Nikkor 9000 ED scanner to scan film lengths up to 18cm but later, I found that the best way is to digitize the film by using my Sinarback 54H at 16x mode, do as many multishot captures required for whatever length of film, use a Kaizer lightbox and then stitch the digital files (a real torture for the computer)... The results with this method is jaw dropping... one can shoot 80cm of 220 film with the 85mm lens and end up with a 1500mp file after stitching the multishot captures... But then the detail on the billboard size print is just fantastic.... nothing a man can ever imagine... and it pays accordingly....  :)

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adrian tyler

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1. dry plate
2. leica 35mm
3. digital
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Hulyss

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LINHOF MASTER TECHNIKA

MINOX M.D.C

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