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Author Topic: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?  (Read 11579 times)

Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2015, 12:36:44 pm »

P1 people stated that C1 will be using (always ?) all GPUs - both iGPU (in CPU) and dGPU... so you might consider getting a dual dGPU

I found 1 !!!
http://amzn.com/B007ZRO3U4

What a bargain at $1995!

thats under $2000
To make the most of my C1 software. Hmmmm

I'll stick to this 970. For a quiet one its already close to $400 for just C1, as LR is not having the issue with the same files.  But I do like C1 results, and I think a video card update may have already been needed...Well, I should upgrade my Mobo and processor and do 32gb ram as well...But things are moving along fine.  A laptop is what I need next, But this might be a BIGGER issue to spec out for C1!!
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2015, 12:59:54 pm »

I found 1 !!!
http://amzn.com/B007ZRO3U4

What a bargain at $1995!

thats under $2000
To make the most of my C1 software. Hmmmm

Well, not only C1. All GPU enabled soft ware should benefit, although Lightroom seems to run slower, Hmmmm.
SNS-HDR's new version 2, currently in Alpha stage, seems to be much (more than 2x) faster according to some users, due to hardware/GPU acceleration.

Quote
I'll stick to this 970. For a quiet one its already close to $400 for just C1, as LR is not having the issue with the same files.  But I do like C1 results, and I think a video card update may have already been needed...Well, I should upgrade my Mobo and processor and do 32gb ram as well...But things are moving along fine.  A laptop is what I need next, But this might be a BIGGER issue to spec out for C1!!

Looks like a fine choice, although the 'need' for speed continues and, what's worse,... we tend to get used to the new situation fast as well.

Cheers,
Bart
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2015, 06:45:42 pm »

we will see in a couple days when I get it. I got the EVGA version http://amzn.com/B00NVODXR4

It says PCI3.0 or 2.0x16, and I'm crossing my fingers that my Asus P7P55D Pro can take it.....  If not, its a good way to pigeon hole(where did this idiom come from?) myself to getting a new setup :-)
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 12:11:59 am by Phil Indeblanc »
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2015, 11:42:44 pm »

So I went ahead and took the advice to get a new graphics card and it arrived today!

I got the one below the latest bleeding edge, the GTX970. the EVGA FTW version as they had a high clock speed. 

I fired up C1, and used the same image I shot last with P1/22mp file, and same thing with the Exposure, Contrast, Highlight Shados, Brightness slider and other top adjustments. At least the Sharpen isn't doing it, but even Saturation does it.  Also it does it at the most critical time when it matters and you have it at 100% so you can see the details, but then goes blurry!! 

This just shouldn't be so, and I shouldn't have had to spend $300-400 just to find out that its about the same!
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AlterEgo

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2015, 12:09:33 am »

So I went ahead and took the advice to get a new graphics card and it arrived today!

I got the one below the latest bleeding edge, the GTX970. the EVGA FTW version as they had a high clock speed. 

I fired up C1, and used the same image I shot last with P1/22mp file, and same thing with the Exposure, Contrast, Highlight Shados, Brightness slider and other top adjustments. At least the Sharpen isn't doing it, but even Saturation does it.  Also it does it at the most critical time when it matters and you have it at 100% so you can see the details, but then goes blurry!! 

This just shouldn't be so, and I shouldn't have had to spend $300-400 just to find out that its about the same!

just in case - what C1 logs say about gpu performance ?
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2015, 12:19:18 am »

Never checked the C1 logs...

Only logs I see is when I open or close, or camera error
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David Grover / Phase One

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2015, 05:17:16 am »

Never checked the C1 logs...

Only logs I see is when I open or close, or camera error

Is hardware acceleration enabled in C1 prefs?  Checked drivers for the card?

« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 05:20:52 am by David Grover / Phase One »
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Paul2660

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2015, 09:31:44 am »

Hi Phil.

You have a good card for sure, so the GPU is top.  I don't think C1 or LR can use the cards in the 2K range to any great benefit, at least on the win side of things.

As mentioned, make sure that the GPU is enabled under prefs.  In C1 you have two check boxes, both should auto.

You might need to do a total uninstall of C1 and go back and re-install it.  As I am sure you are aware, on the win side C1 leaves a ton of hooks in the OS.  On the Phase One site, they have a listing of everything that needs to be pulled off. 

If you are using a tech camera, copy all the LCC's out of their folder, as a totally true clean un-install will delete them also.  I can send you the location of the LCC folder, it's not where you think.

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2015, 10:35:20 am »

Also make sure your proxy/preview size is set to higher than the resolution you're viewing the images at.

For instance if you're on a 4k screen you need to increase the proxy/preview size from default. If you're on a normal res monitor you may want to lower the size from default.

Setting a new preview size does not effect previews that have already been drawn. So after changing this value make sure to regenerate the previews of any existing images.

When viewing an image larger than the preview that has been drawn for that image, C1 must use the raw data rather than the preview, which is much much slower.

Paul2660

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2015, 11:48:28 am »

Each time I make an adjustments, and since I make them in small increments, its vital to see it happening without a image shift.
But since things go blurry for a second when making an adjustment, and then it shows the change, this makes it very hard to reference the before and after.

I never thought the problems this type of "image viewing" causes would be something overlooked by C1.

This is something Ronald Rensink has explained.
http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~rensink/

Does anyone know what I'm even talking about? (of course, If you use C1)

Phil,

I may have steered you wrong, I see now what you are talking about.  I miss read your 1st post.  Yes, when ever you make a change when viewing the image at 100%, the first 6 sliders, all wink the screen and the view blurs for a 1 sec or 2.  Then comes back with your effective change.  I don't see the wink when viewed in normal size, or default size where the viewer slider is all the way to the left.  All the changes with the image at this size don't do not exhibit the same issue.  I guess most of the time I make the adjustments like that I am not at 100% view.  Only for sharpening. 

I also checked in a local adjustment and the same is true for all 6 sliders again. 

And now you mention it, it is very distracting. 

Sorry for the bad call.

I am running win7 64 bit, 32 GB system ram, 4 GB Vram, C1 8.3.3.  One or two versions behind, but I tend to stay there as I have been bitten hard by moving too soon with C1, (like the disaster with the workspace issue that was a huge bug for win7 users before 8.3.3 and the minimize command).

I will look at the MAC version later today just to see if it does the same them on Yosemite. 
EDIT, Just looked, and on the Retina 15" Macbook pro late 2013 version, (purchased early 2014) with 16GB and whatever the graphics setup was (they are all the same), I see the exact same thing, albeit, faster and not quite as noticeable as on the Win side. Only on a 100% view. 

Paul
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 12:23:33 pm by Paul2660 »
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Paul Caldwell
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AlterEgo

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2015, 11:49:52 am »

Never checked the C1 logs...
see, for example, the file like "ImgCoreExternal.log"... there you will find info like this :

> Logging is now active.                                                                                   
> CPU: GenuineIntel [Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4810MQ CPU @ 2.80GHz]                                             
> CPU features: MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE41, SSE42, AVX, AVX2, FMA, F16C, MOVBE, CX8, RDRAND, RDTSCP
> CPU features: POPCNT, BMI1, BMI2, LZCNT                                                                   
> OpenCL initialization...                                                                                 
> OpenCL : found platform Intel(R) OpenCL, OpenCL Version : OpenCL 1.2                                     
> OpenCL : found platform NVIDIA CUDA, OpenCL Version : OpenCL 1.1 CUDA 6.5.35                             
> OpenCL Device : Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600                                                                 
> OpenCL Driver Version : 10.18.14.4264                                                                     
> OpenCL Compute Units : 20                                                                                 
> OpenCL : Loading kernels                                                                                 
> OpenCL : Loading kernels finished                                                                         
> OpenCL : Benchmarking                                                                                     
> OpenCL : Initialization completed                                                                         
> OpenCL benchMark : 0.823120                                                                               
> OpenCL Device : GeForce GTX 870M                                                                         
> OpenCL Driver Version : 344.91                                                                           
> OpenCL Compute Units : 7                                                                                 
> OpenCL : Loading kernels                                                                                 
> OpenCL : Loading kernels finished                                                                         
> OpenCL : Benchmarking                                                                                     
> OpenCL : Initialization completed                                                                         
> OpenCL benchMark : 0.319616                                                                               
> Exiting                                                                                                   
> Shutting down                                                                                             


lower benchmark is better (yes, lower!)
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AlterEgo

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2015, 11:51:40 am »

And now you mention it, it is very distracting. 

so you were a happy user till you read this topic  ;D
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Paul2660

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2015, 12:24:46 pm »

Must must be the fact, I most of the time am not making those adjustments at a 100% view.  I tend to keep the entire file in view for that, just my workflow. 

But it is strange to see it.

Paul C
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2015, 12:27:00 pm »

Ok,

So I checked if the Auto,Auto was on for HW accel, and it is. I really had not messed with default setting as far as I remember.
Doug, that was a interesting point on the cache, and I use a 2560x1600/30" dual screens, and it was set to the default, I think it was 1152, SO perhaps this needs to be at least 1600px ?

And for the log file. Weird but I did a search in the P1 folder and subfolders, but no file came up with "*.log" extension/?


No worries Paul...but I should mention, when you do critical focus work, and you need to be accurate to compile files, or even just see the changes as a before after WHILE(In case someone suggest me to use the side by side view/it actualy might help, but also complexing the workflow) doing the raw processing..its VITAL to know the changes being made, specially when they are small ones.

The "wink" as you call it...
I say its 2 images slipped between the actual image before edit and post edit...and no matter how you slice it, it erases the brains set point of logging what the image was, to what the change is you made.  Hard to convince anyone when they don't make small 100% view alterations.

I did a test to the GPU and the FPS was on average 1750(~1650-1850). I also did a 3DBench, but the 2003 version as the file is 1.6GB for the latest and I bet its full of crap, so not installing it.I saved that log.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 12:30:24 pm by Phil Indeblanc »
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AlterEgo

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2015, 12:54:32 pm »

And for the log file. Weird but I did a search in the P1 folder and subfolders, but no file came up with "*.log" extension/?

if Windows then it is somewhere in place like = C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\Logs (or replace Administrator with your user id)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 12:59:35 pm by AlterEgo »
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2015, 03:35:59 pm »

Ya, my second post has the OS...I should add it to my first

Interesting find!
...

2015-11-18 08:58:56.434> Logging is now active.
2015-11-18 08:58:56.601> OpenCL initialization...
2015-11-18 08:58:56.677> OpenCL : found platform NVIDIA CUDA, OpenCL Version : OpenCL 1.2 CUDA 7.5.0
2015-11-18 08:58:56.699> OpenCL : Benchmark previously failed. OpenCL disabled
2015-11-18 08:58:57.170> OpenCL initialization...
2015-11-18 08:58:57.170> OpenCL : found platform NVIDIA CUDA, OpenCL Version : OpenCL 1.2 CUDA 7.5.0
2015-11-18 08:58:57.195> OpenCL : Benchmark previously failed. OpenCL disabled
2015-11-18 09:05:06.382> OpenCL initialization...
2015-11-18 09:05:06.382> OpenCL : found platform NVIDIA CUDA, OpenCL Version : OpenCL 1.2 CUDA 7.5.0
2015-11-18 09:05:06.399> OpenCL : Benchmark previously failed. OpenCL disabled
2015-11-18 11:28:57.062> Exiting
2015-11-18 11:28:57.063> Shutting down
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AlterEgo

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2015, 04:03:05 pm »

Ya, my second post has the OS...I should add it to my first

Interesting find!
...

2015-11-18 08:58:56.434> Logging is now active.
2015-11-18 08:58:56.601> OpenCL initialization...
2015-11-18 08:58:56.677> OpenCL : found platform NVIDIA CUDA, OpenCL Version : OpenCL 1.2 CUDA 7.5.0
2015-11-18 08:58:56.699> OpenCL : Benchmark previously failed. OpenCL disabled
2015-11-18 08:58:57.170> OpenCL initialization...
2015-11-18 08:58:57.170> OpenCL : found platform NVIDIA CUDA, OpenCL Version : OpenCL 1.2 CUDA 7.5.0
2015-11-18 08:58:57.195> OpenCL : Benchmark previously failed. OpenCL disabled
2015-11-18 09:05:06.382> OpenCL initialization...
2015-11-18 09:05:06.382> OpenCL : found platform NVIDIA CUDA, OpenCL Version : OpenCL 1.2 CUDA 7.5.0
2015-11-18 09:05:06.399> OpenCL : Benchmark previously failed. OpenCL disabled
2015-11-18 11:28:57.062> Exiting
2015-11-18 11:28:57.063> Shutting down

here is your answer it seems - check the nvidia drivers ! use the ones that are stable and not most recent game ready ones just in case... you are not gaming
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #57 on: November 18, 2015, 06:39:36 pm »

Yes AlterEgo...looks like checking this might do the trick.
Is there a specific way to go about installing older drivers?
Other than deleting it, and have the older extracted file with the right driver file, or dll ready when it prompts?
Well, I'll give it a spin, and see how it goes.

Perhaps nVidia or C1 should update their compatibility as well.


As far as what Doug brought up...I should update that as well...Any idea what I should set it as? I'm thinking the max that teh C1 edit screen allows on a 30" screen
I would have to do a PrintScreen, paste that into a file and calculate the space the image takes up and aprox that into the C1 Preferneces to render..I think that should work.
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AlterEgo

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #58 on: November 18, 2015, 08:46:17 pm »

Yes AlterEgo...looks like checking this might do the trick.
Is there a specific way to go about installing older drivers?
Other than deleting it, and have the older extracted file with the right driver file, or dll ready when it prompts?
Well, I'll give it a spin, and see how it goes.

I'd suggest to note what is the current version of the driver then I 'd uninstall the driver completely and then check what Windows Update suggests to install (means not from Nvidia or EVGA website)... 

for example for my GTX870M Nvidia itself has

GeForce Game Ready Driver - WHQL
Version: 358.91 - Release Date: Mon Nov 09, 2015

but I am still using the version from Dec 07, 2014 (so Windows says) - not the bleeding edge, but no issues... installed from M$.

C1 reports my driver as
2015-11-18 20:46:56.600> OpenCL Device : GeForce GTX 870M
2015-11-18 20:46:56.600> OpenCL Driver Version : 344.91



« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 08:49:26 pm by AlterEgo »
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Does anyone else have problems with C1's inability to "render" in realtime?
« Reply #59 on: November 18, 2015, 10:48:50 pm »

It didn't suggest, it just loaded a generic vga with low res.  So I went back 5 months. I will go back further, BUT before I do, I read about the 3D vision feature, the nVida Experince and the HD Audio, which all 3 I opted out of installing as I don't game. Can any of these disable installing some feature that C1 needs?  Or does JUST the driver cut it?
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