65+ still up to the task / worth an investment?

[Christoph B.]

Okay so I have one last question;

Which CF cards should I use?

I saw a list of 'compatible' cards here https://www.phaseone.com/en/Search/Article.aspx?articleid=1591&languageid=1

How relevant is this list?

Do I have to worry about something if I use a card that's not listed there? I was thinking about using a SanDisk Extreme Pro 16/32GB (160MB/s) but it's not listed there....

Am I going to run into some trouble by using a non-verified card? Never occurred to me that would or could be possible...

[D Fuller]

Okay so I have one last question;

Which CF cards should I use?

I saw a list of 'compatible' cards here https://www.phaseone.com/en/Search/Article.aspx?articleid=1591&languageid=1

How relevant is this list?

Do I have to worry about something if I use a card that's not listed there? I was thinking about using a SanDisk Extreme Pro 16/32GB (160MB/s) but it's not listed there....

Am I going to run into some trouble by using a non-verified card? Never occurred to me that would or could be possible...

I use those cards (Sandisk Extreme Pro 32GB) and have had no issues.

[Christoph B.]

Okay, thank you  -it's just...weird having a list of "compatible" or "tested" CF-cards, makes you wonder why they did that...

[Christoph B.]

So just as a quick follow-up;

I received the camera a week ago and I couldn't be happier! The resolution, the colour fidelity, the comfort of tethering - everything works as it should (well except for some few issues with the AF but that doesn't matter to me).

The 80mm and 210mm are great for working in a studio environment and today I got my 50mm shift lens and I'm very surprised at how sharp it is!

Thank you all again for aiding me in my decision, I don't think I would have (or rather could have) made the switch without your knowledge and advice!

[synn]

Congrats and Enjoy your kit!
The 50mm shift is a guilty pleasure of mine too. Got one for a pittance last month and I am amazed at how beautiful its rendering is. Pixel for pixel, it is not as sharp as the Schneiders, but it is very filmic and has plenty of resolution.

[Doug Peterson]

Okay, thank you  -it's just...weird having a list of "compatible" or "tested" CF-cards, makes you wonder why they did that...

This is the list of CF cards they have specifically tested during firmware development.

A CF card which is not on this list has not been specifically tested with that back/firmware. This does not mean it won't work; in fact, almost always it will.

As an example of when this matters... imagine your back is giving you error messages about the CF card (not common, but certainly not impossible); when you call your dealer to troubleshoot they will ask if you are getting the same error messages when using more than one CF card all of which are on the "compatible" list. If the answer is yes then they will know it is almost certainly an issue with the back. If the answer is that you ONLY have CF cards that are not on the list, then they will suggest that the first step to troubleshooting is to try two or more CF cards on the "compatible" list (a good dealer will have several of these cards in their own testing inventory that they can loan you if needed).

Because of this I think it is good practice to have at least two cards that are on the list. After that, buy any Lexar/Sandisk pro line card you want, as long as you do some testing with each card before using it on an important shoot.

[Theodoros]

I believe a big advantage of the P65+ with respect to competition is its ability to shoot in exposure + mode gaining 2 stops in sensitivity and reducing the resolution at 15mp but retaining the full image area of the sensor... I've heard very positive comments about the picture quality in that mode and although I've used a P-65+ on a Mamiya on the past, I didn't test the (+) mode properly...
I wonder if one can post some comparison samples of the two modes and comment on his experience about the (+) mode...

[Ken R]

I believe a big advantage of the P65+ with respect to competition is its ability to shoot in exposure + mode gaining 2 stops in sensitivity and reducing the resolution at 15mp but retaining the full image area of the sensor... I've heard very positive comments about the picture quality in that mode and although I've used a P-65+ on a Mamiya on the past, I didn't test the (+) mode properly...
I wonder if one can post some comparison samples of the two modes and comment on his experience about the (+) mode...

I have used that mode on my IQ160 and the file looks stunning. Much more detail than the 15mp would suggest. It allows one to retain the look of the large sensor format and optics when 15mp is more than enough (which is a lot of times) and one gains high iso performance. I would imagine the 20mp on the IQ180/280/380 is even better. The P+ file is just so so smooth with a less "digital" look to it. Color is just awesome. No scientific measurement, analysis or judgment, just my own experience.

[Christoph B.]

Honestly I never thought about using the + mode at all. Wouldn't downsampling the 60mpx to 15mpx give the same result?

[synn]

AFAIK, the phase backs use some sort of super pixel binning whereby the results are better than a straight downsampling.

[Doug Peterson]

Honestly I never thought about using the + mode at all. Wouldn't downsampling the 60mpx to 15mpx give the same result?

I'm surprised your dealer didn't cover this with you prior to purchase; its one of my favorite features of the 65+.

The sensor+ mode is doing diagonal hardware pixel binning at the sensor level BEFORE recording the sensor output. This means:
- 2 stops of free ISO gain (ISO1600 in sensor+ is really quite good when combined with the catered processing of C1)
- faster shooting (tethered or untethered)
- smaller raw files (easier on storage, loads faster on older computers or in high volumes)
- you're still getting the full frame (no crop / no change in effective focal length).

The 65+ was the first back that I really enjoyed bringing to weddings, and sensor+ was a huge part of that.

[Christoph B.]

Well I knew about it obviously but I just don't see the advantage for me. I don't have to shoot that fast (1fps is more than enough) and I actually like noise in my photos...and if perchance I really do decide that it's too much for this or that photo - well than I can still resize afterwards

In short: I prefer having the big files to work with, however I do see your point for wedding photographers (though if that was my main profession I would've rather gone for a Pentax 645Z).

[D Fuller]

Glad it's working for you.

FWIW, had dinner this weekend with a friend of mine that lives in France.

His main genre is traveling the world, shooting portrait settings for very wealthy people (think three Verons, two yaghts, 3 homes type of people).

Most of the finished prints are approx 1.2 to 2 meters.

For 8 or so years he's used the p21+ with a hasselblad V using mostly tungsten light.

The agency he contracts with are always amazed at his final output and thinks it's a 60 something megapixel back to the point their other photographers have moved to high megapixel backs and the new Canon 50mpx.

He doesn't lie to them, he just doesn't bring it up, but the interesting thing is he's used the p21+ for about a trillion gigs and only had one small electronic glitch, which was coming from the hasselblad.

He wouldn't trade it, or upgrade it for anything at any cost.

So my point is you should have a great experience with your p65 regardless of the pixel count and they last forever.

IMO

BC

James, I just want to thank you fo the solid advice you hand out in this forum. A few weeks ago I brought my Contax 645 off the shelf and back into my working arsenel with a P65+ purchase, in no small part because of your comments about how solid and useable a system it is another thread here. they gave me a lot of confidence in making the investment. (If you can call any photo equipment purchase an investment.)

Thanks for your perspective.

DAF

[eronald]

I once got hired as an assistant by a guy who specialises in portraits used in ads (think pianist, explorer etc). So we traveled all day to this explorer guy who lives halfway up a mountain when he's not travelling, and portrait man pulls out one 5D or 5D2 and one lightbox and tripod with a portable flash, gets it done outdoors  in 40 minutes or so, including a second nearby location. The mountain was quite a bit cold and windy, mini-siberia the explorer called it, the lightbox tried to turn into a zeppelin. I don't think any client ever asked him what his camera was. He couldn't have used anything larger anyway, since he had a calibrated carry-on go bag with camera, flash, lightbox, comp and clothes. Maybe as you suggest the camera really doesn't matter.

Now for the interesting part: The ads were for a pharma company. The portrait subjects were customers, and the images he made were of a heartbreaking sadness, when you actually looked at them. He was really too good, as an artist.

Edmund

Glad it's working for you.

FWIW, had dinner this weekend with a friend of mine that lives in France.

His main genre is traveling the world, shooting portrait settings for very wealthy people (think three Verons, two yaghts, 3 homes type of people).

Most of the finished prints are approx 1.2 to 2 meters.

For 8 or so years he's used the p21+ with a hasselblad V using mostly tungsten light.

The agency he contracts with are always amazed at his final output and thinks it's a 60 something megapixel back to the point their other photographers have moved to high megapixel backs and the new Canon 50mpx.

He doesn't lie to them, he just doesn't bring it up, but the interesting thing is he's used the p21+ for about a trillion gigs and only had one small electronic glitch, which was coming from the hasselblad.

He wouldn't trade it, or upgrade it for anything at any cost.

So my point is you should have a great experience with your p65 regardless of the pixel count and they last forever.

IMO

BC

[rueyloon]

Now for the interesting part: The ads were for a pharma company. The portrait subjects were customers, and the images he made were of a heartbreaking sadness, when you actually looked at them. He was really too good, as an artist.

Edmund

I'm interested to see the portraits, not for the camera quality, but the story you laid out sounds so interesting. Any keyword to google ?

[eronald]

I'm interested to see the portraits, not for the camera quality, but the story you laid out sounds so interesting. Any keyword to google ?

Long time ago. I'll try and do a search.

Edmund

[rueyloon]

BTW, between the p65+ and the aptus ii 12, which one would you get ? is 80mp just over kill ? I saw one just going on eBay for cheap at about 8k.

[stevehayes]

Hi everyone, I'm sorry but I have to ask. Do you think it will also work and now? I guess that it will be a very good investment. You know, now I started to take care more about the investments that I make. I try to buy only things that I really need and to keep some more money in order to make a big investment in a small business or in some funds. I was inspired by one of my friends who share this blog with me. There I read how to invest correctly and I think that after I'll save enough money I'll make my first big investment. Till then I have to buy little but important things.

[Doug Peterson]

Hi everyone, I'm sorry but I have to ask. Do you think it will also work and now?

We still sell a lot of P65+ via out outlet.

It's one of the best image-quality-to-dollar values of the backs we have. BUT you have to go in eyes-wide-open regarding its usability/features.

There are significant limitations in usability/flexibility that feel anachronistic/dated compared to modern cameras. Namely the ISO (max 800 at full res, 3200 at 1/4th res), the LCD screen that was okay in its time but now feels very low res and dim since we are all used to iPhones and which did a pretty poor to absent job of helping you judge focus post capture, and Firewire for tethering.

If you can live with those limitations, the image quality is really quite good. Skintones are pleasing, dynamic range is excellent for its era, it's a full-frame 645 sensor (most backs of that era are at most a 1.1x crop from a 645 frame), and 61.5 mp is pretty competitive for large prints even today.

Ideally you would try one out before you buy. I think our rental team still offers P65+ rentals with credit toward purchase, but you'd have to contact them to confirm.