Canon ipf8400 New printer DOA opinions please

[Mackie007]

Hello, Long time lurker first post...

We just unloaded a brand new ipf8400 and when completing the setup procedure it came up with an error to call service. I was told by Canon service it was a print head error and they would send me out a new print head. I said that's fine but we have been running a Canon ipf8300 for about 4 years so I am very familiar with how much ink is used with a printer head change, and being this is a brand new printer right out of the box Canon needs to comp me with the ink used to replace a brand new printer head with another brand new printer head. The Canon rep said nope we will only replace the head and ink is a consumable. The Canon rep then told me it only use at most 20% of the ink. I said well let's do the math 20% of the ink is about $400 dollars worth of ink you want me to eat on a brand new printer? He said well your getting a new print head......

I'm just going to send the whole printer back, what would you guys do? I'm so upset right now I can barely see to type this out.

Best Regards,

Mac

Jonesphoto.com
Tucson, AZ

[MHMG]

Hello, Long time lurker first post...

The Canon rep said nope we will only replace the head and ink is a consumable. The Canon rep then told me it only use at most 20% of the ink. I said well let's do the math 20% of the ink is about $400 dollars worth of ink you want me to eat on a brand new printer? He said well your getting a new print head......

I'm just going to send the whole printer back, what would you guys do? I'm so upset right now I can barely see to type this out.

Best Regards,

Mac

Jonesphoto.com
Tucson, AZ

I feel your pain, but after more than one head replacement on my iPF8300, I've never had the sense that 20% of total ink capacity was used, more like 20% of the maintenance tank capacity which is considerably less volume, IMHO. I suspect someone at Canon knows down to the last ml how much ink gets used in a head replacement, but it seems like it may not to be common knowledge for all tech staff.  They are trained to handle customer questions on numerous products, so it's not likely they will have encyclopedic knowledge of every single aspect of every printer. That said, in my own dealings with Canon support on a variety of issues, I've begun to believe that they are given a fair amount of discretion in terms of what they are willing to offer the customer in terms of rectifying problems. Some have offered me a free head replacement when the damaged head was a few months out of warranty. Others were reluctant to replace a head in warranty that I was pretty certain was dead before trying all those ink wasting heavy duty cleaning cycles before conceding my diagnosis was indeed correct. Anyway, it's a bit surprising that Canon customer service doesn't have more consistent repair and replace policies.  Give Canon a call again. You might get a rep who is willing to go a little extra distance for you.

good luck,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[samueljohnchia]

According to the service manual, only 40g (~40ml assuming the same density as water) of ink is consumed during the initial filling. It does not clearly say if that is for one head, or for both, but the latter seems way more likely in the context of the document. That's no where near $400 dollars of ink.

I'm not sure if a failed initial installment of printheads would force the same quantity of ink through both heads again during re-installation. In any case it would only be less ink wasted, not more.

I feel your pain too after experiencing lots of troubles with two iPF8400s, and dealing with the worst people I have ever encountered at Canon in my region. To be honest Canon need not compensate you on inks, but they sometimes do so out of goodwill. I second Mark's suggestion to call again and hope for better customer care.

[Mackie007]

According to the service manual, only 40g (~40ml assuming the same density as water) of ink is consumed during the initial filling. It does not clearly say if that is for one head, or for both, but the latter seems way more likely in the context of the document. That's no where near $400 dollars of ink.

That is 40ml per color or 400ml . Having changed a few print heads I'm always stupefied on how far the ink levels drop and how heavy the maintenance cartridge is after print head changes. If it was only 40ml which it isn't, I would not dread head changes so much.

Best Reguards,
Mac

[samueljohnchia]

That is 40ml per color or 400ml . Having changed a few print heads I'm always stupefied on how far the ink levels drop and how heavy the maintenance cartridge is after print head changes. If it was only 40ml which it isn't, I would not dread head changes so much.

Best Reguards,
Mac

That is 40g total for all 12 colors. That's what the service manual says. I have not changed the printheads on my iPF8400 yet, but from what I recall on my iPF8100, a head change never consumed 400ml of ink. Way, way less.

The ink levels seem to drop drastically after the initial fill and some printing because a lot of ink is used to fill the sub-tank system, plus the ink lines. The ink is not actually wasted.

[Mackie007]

Any ink purged to the maintenance cartridge during a print head change is certainly considered waste... On future print head changes I'm thinking about weighing the maintenance cartridge before and after the process to get a better idea how much ink is being purged during the process. If I get those measurements I'll get them posted here so we can compare notes.

To add more fuel to the fire, about 6 months into our ipf8300 warranty the printers Nic Card failed. Canon service came out to replace the card and while they were here ran additional tests on the printer and decided both print heads needed to be replaced. The field service tech being familiar with the ipf8300 warned us it could use a lot of ink during the process. After the head changes the maintenance cartridge went from 60% capacity to the please change soon message, all inks dropped 20% to 40% according to the machines graph that we all know has questionable accuracy. The service tech said he never knows how much ink is going to be used but sometimes as in our case it's an excessive amount. I called Canon support while the tech was still there and put him on the phone to explain the issue to them. Canon then sent us couple of 330ml inks and a maintenance cartridge.

Just saying my experience with changing heads is fair amount of ink can be used.

And now back to topic...  A new machine having never produced a single print should be made right at Canons expense period.

Thanks,
Mac
 

[samueljohnchia]

A new machine having never produced a single print should be made right at Canons expense period.

Absolutely, I am in full agreement. I hope it goes well on you next call to Canon.

Sure, any ink that goes into the maintenance cart is wasted, but some ink must always be wasted in this way. See the other thread on Epson's truly wasteful ink wastage for some perspective - I'm glad my Canons never did this sort of thing.

Before/after weighing of the ink carts as opposed to the maintenance cart is probably going to give a more accurate result, since not all the ink would drain perfectly into the maintenance cart. I will do that too when I next change my printheads. Good to verify the facts.

[chez]

I'd send the entire printer back and get a new one. Would you take a car that needed a new transmission the moment you drove it off the lot?

[Jeff Magidson]

I have "heard" that changing out the head from the printer control panel uses less ink than doing it from your computer. Not sure if this is true.

[Mackie007]

Ok I got to work this morning and decided to run basic head cleaning routine on the DOA ipf8400 to see if the error #03130031-2F49 would clear. But as promised I gathered some base measurements before and after starting the head cleaning routine.

I first measured a full and empty 330ml ink cartridge just for reference.
Full 330ml ink cartridge = 457 grams
Empty 330ml ink cartridge = 115 grams
That shows a fluid capacity of 342 grams or mls

I then measured my maintenance cartridge (it already shows 20% use from the printer startup) I assume that is normal.
Maintenance cartridge starting weight = 664 grams
Maintenance cartridge after basic print head cleaning = 692 grams
( looks like it only used 28ml on the cleaning)


Unfortunately I still have the printer error code after the cleaning cycle was run so I called Canon support. They are sending me a new printer head on Monday and I'm hoping the problem will be resolved. Canon said they will not review any compensation for ink until after the printer is usable and then a determination will be made.

I'll report back on Monday after we get the new head online. Thanks for all your input.

Best Regards,
Mac

[Scott Hein]

I then measured my maintenance cartridge (it already shows 20% use from the printer startup) I assume that is normal.

You may already be aware of this, but the ink and maintenance cartridge usage numbers reported by the printer are very coarse - they change in increments of 20%.  So it can be a little hard to tell from those numbers where you really are. (Edit: and I see you are aware of this from an earlier post...)

-Scott

[Jglaser757]

Ask to speak to their supervisor. If you don't get satisfaction from them then just go over their head. I had numerous issues with  my epson 9900. 10 months later and they finally fixed it after replacing head four times,one cleaning unit, tech calling and getting run around etc etc. so I complained to service at epson. The guy on the phone didn't care and said " well, that's not our fault that you waisted so much ink and paper. I asked for the supervisor, explained hwhat happened over the last 10 months and how much I loved the printer. She sent me plenty of ink cartridges to last at least a couple months.  The higher ups do not want to be bothered dealing with this. Worst case, you get in Touch with corporate. It works, especially if you explain the dilemma.

[Mackie007]

Update....

Sorry for the delay, the forums verification steps took the wind out of a quick reply:(

Received the and installed the new print head on and am finalizing the setup as this is being typed.

About the ink usage when changing a print head on the ipf8400, this head change went through 390mls of ink.
The actual process took about 25 minutes after I put the new head in the printer. It went through several cycles of filling tanks and checking printheads.

The maintenance cartridge was 60% capacity when I started the process and now wants to be changed soon.

Maintenance cartridge before head change.... 678 grams
Maintenance cartridge after head change.... 1068 grams
390 grams/mls was consumed for the head change which averages out to 32.5 mls per color.
I would certainly not call this a trivial amount of ink, but maybe some print head changes use less.

I had to go through several supervisors with canon support but it looks like they are going to cover our ink usage for the head change, but only after much effort on my part.

Best Regards,
Mac

[Pete Berry]

Update....

Sorry for the delay, the forums verification steps took the wind out of a quick reply:(

Received the and installed the new print head on and am finalizing the setup as this is being typed.

About the ink usage when changing a print head on the ipf8400, this head change went through 390mls of ink.
The actual process took about 25 minutes after I put the new head in the printer. It went through several cycles of filling tanks and checking printheads.

The maintenance cartridge was 60% capacity when I started the process and now wants to be changed soon.

Maintenance cartridge before head change.... 678 grams
Maintenance cartridge after head change.... 1068 grams
390 grams/mls was consumed for the head change which averages out to 32.5 mls per color.
I would certainly not call this a trivial amount of ink, but maybe some print head changes use less.

I had to go through several supervisors with canon support but it looks like they are going to cover our ink usage for the head change, but only after much effort on my part.

Best Regards,
Mac

Yeah, not at all trivial - equal to exactly three of my iPF5100 130ml $80 carts, + tax and shipping. Yours somewhat less pricey/ml I imagine.

Sounds like Canon will do right by you. I've been very impressed over the past 7 years with their service the couple of times I've needed it. Good luck!
Pete

[jdoyle1713]

Mac

As a Epson & Canon Dealer.. I Know we would make you whole.. My Recco would be to call The company you bought The machine from
They should be able to assist you.. If they doesn't Call Me Ill Tell you who to call!!!

Good Luck
Jim Doyle
Shades Of Paper
856-787-9200

[ltvette]

Sounds like the 8400 is about the same Horror show as my 8300 is/was. It just went through 4 maint. carts while trying to change printheads. I'd say about 1400ml of ink was dumped. All while on phone with tech support. I even put in a second head as recommended. All Canon can say is "$1500 more to send out tech....So about $2500 out, and they want $ 1500 more? Look for a youtube video of a guy taking a sledgehammer and sawzall to his IPF 8300, for this is the only outcome that will allow me to dispense of this machine. Canon should be ashamed of themselves, but they are laughing all the way to the bank with what they charge for ink, etc....
And after reading this, sounds like the 8400 is no better!