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Author Topic: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America  (Read 95867 times)

jjj

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #220 on: September 18, 2015, 04:46:00 pm »

Medicare and Medicaid have been part of the economy for decades.  When the government pays for anything, it raises costs.  Obamacare is accelerating the costs even faster.   Look what has happened to tuition.  Because of government student loans, tuition has gone up four times the CPI inflation rate, all because of too much money chasing too little goods.  Same thing has been happening with medicine and will get worse. 
The problem is the morally corrupt private part of the American system screwing the government over, not the Government being involved. Health care that is completely government provided in other countries is far cheaper than the broken private system you have, a lot cheaper. Which undermines your entire stance on health provision.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 04:54:40 pm by jjj »
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jjj

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #221 on: September 18, 2015, 04:51:23 pm »

The discussion is too often framed in the context of freedom of choice (which pushes a lot of buttons among those who have been primed to react) or as "government-run" healthcare, implying that some civil servant is sitting there in the doctor's office with you deciding what pills to take, or when to let you die. That's not what a single-payer system is, of course, but we're dealing with faith-based beliefs, imo, so facts don't matter. This may be partly the result of clever marketing by the private insurance industry, who have managed to convince people it is a freedom of choice issue. Of course they would, wouldn't they? Interesting that the insurance industry should, in this context, be the "good' guy, when it is almost always universally vilified otherwise.
Only underlines how bonkers those protesters are.

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There is also a knee-jerk belief that government-run enterprises always work out badly and cost too much. It's easy to come to that belief, those stories will always get media attention. I've worked mostly in the private sector and a little in the public sector, and the idea that private industry is efficient and government is not just makes me laugh out loud. I can certainly find examples of government inefficiency but so what. The fact that we don't hear about boondoggles in the private sector is only because no one can investigate and report on them as easily as you can in the public sector. Freedom of information doesn't apply to private companies. And anyway, no one regards those private boondoggles as things that affect them. Except for maybe those pesky financial meltdowns, but people find a way to blame that on government too.
Private companies are often appallingly run. Many 'successful' business people have a record of failures before making it and then afterwards too. Most businesses fail and very, very few last as long as a human, let alone country does, both reasons for saying that businesses are not a good example to follow.

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What constantly fascinates me is how many people are more concerned with ideology than by trying to figure out what works best.
Absolutely. Ideologues and there are few on here are the glass in the ointment for creating a better world.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 04:55:53 pm by jjj »
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jjj

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #222 on: September 18, 2015, 05:19:53 pm »

Which stills works out to be vastly cheaper.
Two reasons.
1. No-one is making a profit.
2. Everyone contributing a small amount [that they can afford] they can afford via taxes is actually huge amount of money that can pay for a free at source service.

Tell me what you think "profit" is, Jeremy.
If you need something as simple as profit explaining in this context, either you are not going to understand the answer or you are being deliberately obtuse. Possibly both.
I've also added point two of my quote back in which you edited out which addresses the following ignorant response

No that's what happens when you have a corrupt system.
British healthcare is free....
HA HA HA HA HA HA, OUCH, HA HA HA HA. ROTFL!
Sigh, do you really need reminding every time that it is free at source. The statement saying that you also conveniently missed out of my other quote.
And if you pay no taxes, it's simply free. So that's a huge amount of people, children, student, the elderly, the unemployed, the sick and so on.
Regardless, here and many other places there is no risk of bankruptcy, not getting treatment or dying because you cannot afford such a basic service.
When it comes to general health provision, the US is so remarkably backward compared to just about every other developed country and even some of those which are not.
A country that does not even look after its citizens health in my view is a third world country.

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RSL

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #223 on: September 18, 2015, 05:36:49 pm »


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Tell me what you think 'profit' is, Jeremy.

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If you need something as simple as profit explaining in this context, either you are not going to understand the answer or you are being deliberately obtuse. Possibly both.

In other words you haven't a clue what "profit" actually is. I guessed that from your statements, but this makes it clearer.

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British healthcare is free

HA HA HA HA HA HA, OUCH, HA HA HA HA. Still ROTFL!

Evidently you've never quite understood that there's no free lunch.
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Otto Phocus

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #224 on: September 21, 2015, 09:25:05 am »

I worked for a government agency once after working in private industry.  I brought this money saving idea to my boss.  His response was, "Why do you care what it costs?"  That's government mentality.

Technically that was one person's mentality.  The government is full of people doing very good jobs and working very hard to improve things.  The problem is that these people don't fit in to the mentality that government is inefficient and "bad".

The cogent question was, what did you do with your idea?  If you stopped at the first obstacle then you were part of the problem, not the solution.

I have worked in and for the federal government all my adult life and I see many examples of good people doing good things every day. It is a system that is equally far from being perfect and worthless.
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Alan Klein

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #225 on: September 21, 2015, 10:47:20 am »

Technically that was one person's mentality.  The government is full of people doing very good jobs and working very hard to improve things.  The problem is that these people don't fit in to the mentality that government is inefficient and "bad".

The cogent question was, what did you do with your idea?  If you stopped at the first obstacle then you were part of the problem, not the solution.

I have worked in and for the federal government all my adult life and I see many examples of good people doing good things every day. It is a system that is equally far from being perfect and worthless.

I'm sorry but I wasn't part of the problem.  I brought decades of experience in private industry including my own business to my job with the government. (NYC).  I worked very hard to do the best job I could do.  Many others did not care like I did.  Many were just putting in their time, working just enough to get by.  You cannot believe how many were incompetent.  And you really had to be a crook to get fired like getting caught taking kickbacks.  Government is nothing like private business.  This is why the VA is a disaster and a national single payer health plan would be just as bad.

What also happens in government  is after years of being ignored, years of dealing with the mediocre, "just put in your time" from so many, you grow disinterested in trying to change things.  You become like the organization.  You go along to get along.  And that's the problem.  But it's mainly caused because there's no profit motive, no owner who's around interested in trying to save money and making his business more efficient.  There are no competitors keeping you sharp and on your feet.  Their main concern was not to do anything that may get their name or the organization's name on the front page of the NY Times or NY Post in a negative way.  Their "customers" do not come first.  Their concerns are political, not business oriented. 

Isaac

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #226 on: September 21, 2015, 12:34:40 pm »

But it's mainly caused because there's no profit motive, no owner who's around interested in trying to save money and making his business more efficient.  There are no competitors keeping you sharp and on your feet.

How to make massive profits? Be an unregulated monopoly and charge whatever you like!

"Drug Goes From $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight"
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 01:04:35 pm by Isaac »
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amolitor

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #227 on: September 21, 2015, 01:10:52 pm »

There's no lazy slackers in industry, that's for sure.
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Rob C

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #228 on: September 21, 2015, 01:20:13 pm »

At one period of his younger life my wife's brother worked for the public sector as a surveyor. Came the day he was 'invited' to add to a claim by his 'superior' that the department was understaffed and overworked. He responded by remarking that he always had plenty of time to complete the Glasgow Herald crossword (quite tough in the pre-dumbing down era) every morning... That did not go down well, despite it being true. What was going down well, and about to go down much better, was that the upper levels were getting responsibility payments based on the size of their departments.

Shortly afterwards he left the public sector and set up in his own right and became very, very successful, thank you very much. It's in the mindset. For both options.

In the same area, I had opportunity to make an official protest about the high rates being applied to the studio I was renting. I was given a time and turned up in the town hall and waited my turn in the gallery to be called to state my case. When my turn came, I began to say my piece and realised, quite soon, that the entire table of heads that was meant to settle my case, was ignoring me in totality: not one face acknowledged my existence, said good morning, nor gazed into my eyes at any time. They were all in conversation with one another (the bench, not my eyes).

Naturally, I got absolutely nowhere with my plea.

Folks, in Scotland as anywhere else, unless you have organized and orchestrated money behind you, you don't exist.

Rob C
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 02:33:15 pm by Rob C »
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tom b

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #229 on: September 21, 2015, 07:12:43 pm »

I came from a different generation. Around 12 of us won teacher's scholarships. You had to be in the top 5% of the population. Lazy public servants, I think that is an American fallacy.

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

Isaac

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #230 on: September 21, 2015, 08:19:11 pm »

I think that is an American fallacy.

I think a stereotype won't stretch over 320 million people without breaking.
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tom b

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #231 on: September 21, 2015, 08:24:48 pm »

I think a stereotype won't stretch over 320 million people without breaking.

What in the hell doe's that mean?

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

Isaac

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #232 on: September 21, 2015, 10:15:00 pm »

Not an American fallacy.
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tom b

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #233 on: September 21, 2015, 10:21:04 pm »

"What in the hell doe's that mean? "

Please explain!

Cheers.
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Tom Brown

Rob C

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #234 on: September 22, 2015, 05:07:55 am »

I came from a different generation. Around 12 of us won teacher's scholarships. You had to be in the top 5% of the population. Lazy public servants, I think that is an American fallacy.

Cheers,


Being initially clever doesn't mean you can't later settle into complacency and pension-driven objectives.

Rob C

tom b

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #235 on: September 22, 2015, 09:01:56 am »


Being initially clever doesn't mean you can't later settle into complacency and pension-driven objectives.

Rob C

Complacency, sorry but teenagers will swallow you up if you are not on your game. Teaching was a never ending challenge!

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

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Diego Pigozzo

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #237 on: September 22, 2015, 09:32:05 am »

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Robert Roaldi

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #238 on: September 22, 2015, 09:47:46 am »

And another: http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/tb-drug-price-cycloserine-1.3237868

Reminds me of when those Enron scum started jacking up the price of electricity in California, just because they could. One of the reasons humans started collecting into groups was to protect themselves from predators. I wonder why we sometimes remove regulations that protect us. Who benefits from that?

Free-market competition didn't do much to lower prices in these cases, so some mechanism appears to have broken down. I don't think it's a good sign that our culture can't protect us from this kind of behaviour.
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Petrus

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Re: The Tyranny of Medical Bills in America
« Reply #239 on: September 22, 2015, 09:58:18 am »

Here is one plausible explanation of what is going on: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800914000615​

They predict it could only a few decades left for us.
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