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Author Topic: iPad Pro tethering?  (Read 12466 times)

narikin

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iPad Pro tethering?
« on: September 15, 2015, 07:26:57 pm »

Surprised nobody has brought up the iPad Pro for MF tethering, yet?

Apple has buried the connectivity details in its release hubbub, but it appears to simply have 1 'lightning' port, which is disheartening. Can that connect to an MF back's firewire or USB3 ports somehow?

Is the A9X processor powerful enough for full Capture One use? and for that matter is C1 even load-abale, as I'm not sure if this iPad uses the full Apple OS or some phone/tablet version of it?

Seems like a missed opportunity by Apple. Their designers ruling out a USB3 port is am error, imho. They say it's "more powerful than 80% of laptops sold today" but that sounds like smoke-and-mirrors, and MF pro's need a fairly powerful machine for what they do.

Any thoughts?

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DucatiTerminator

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2015, 08:01:14 pm »

Unless C1 gets ported to iOS, it will not be loadable even if there was lightning compatibility. In fact, I think lack of app support will be the major thing that keeps the iPad Pro from really being "Pro," at least on the photo editing side of things. The Surface Pro, on the other hand, runs full Windows so you can run almost anything that runs on your desktop PC, albeit not as fast. I'm still planning on getting an iPad Pro as it will be a nice and fast display for running Capture Pilot.
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Ken Doo

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2015, 09:43:11 am »

No doubt the iPad Pro will be "prettier" than anything Microsoft can produce, but pretty don't cut it when tethering with a USB3 enabled MFDB, running Capture One Pro, and viewing full resolution RAWs.  The Microsoft Surface Pro acts as a natural extension of the Phase IQ series MFDBs touchscreen.  Current offerings of the Surface Pro with core i5 and i7 and up to 8GB of RAM.  SP4 is due out soon and waiting to see what improvements are finally offered.

https://kendoophotography.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/microsofts-surface-pro-2-a-game-changer-for-phase-one-iq-series-and-leaf-credo-medium-format-digital-backs/

ken

Joe Towner

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2015, 12:58:55 pm »

Surprised nobody has brought up the iPad Pro for MF tethering, yet?

Apple has buried the connectivity details in its release hubbub, but it appears to simply have 1 'lightning' port, which is disheartening. Can that connect to an MF back's firewire or USB3 ports somehow?

Is the A9X processor powerful enough for full Capture One use? and for that matter is C1 even load-abale, as I'm not sure if this iPad uses the full Apple OS or some phone/tablet version of it?

Seems like a missed opportunity by Apple. Their designers ruling out a USB3 port is am error, imho. They say it's "more powerful than 80% of laptops sold today" but that sounds like smoke-and-mirrors, and MF pro's need a fairly powerful machine for what they do.

You seem to be unaware of what Apple has been up to.  1 Lightning port is fine for doing a data connection over, plus Apple seems to be focused on USB3.1c as a port for thin devices (see current Macbook) so that would have been the port put on the device.  With CapturePilot, they have wifi connectivity with some functionality, so it seems you'd be better off asking what features you want from C1 migrated.  I think the biggest feature folks will need/want is an ability to transfer IIQ files over the wifi link, with a local save that can be accessed by an image editing app.

What makes the iPad Pro powerful is the absolute absence of legacy stuff - Windows still knows what a LPT port is and how to talk to it, along with things like MMX.  The sheer amount of legacy that has to be supported even on a Surface is kind of funny, because 99% of the world doesn't use it.  Apps are great if they can do 5 things really well, and just not do anything else.  Could CaptureOne be ported to the A9x chip, most likely due to the coding frameworks used on the Mac side of things.  The question is why would you want to support all the updates needed to make it work with all the cameras out there?  Sony has just proven their refresh cycle is half of what Canon/Nikon have been doing, and adding support for new bodies every month would unmanageable given the current cost point.

Having just done a recovery on a Surface 3, I REALLY hate them.  15 hours of frustration, if you get one, make sure to make the recovery usb drive and password recovery items as soon as you turn it on.  And make sure you backup anything you care about - it's a wipe and restore as your only real 'fix'.
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Paul2660

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2015, 01:43:19 pm »

Yes the Surface 3 can be a pain and when a problem happens, I agree the best bet, re-load from scratch. 

However Capture Pilot in it's current state, IMO is not the answer, as Capture Pilot cannot show a file currently at a 100% view either on iPhone or iPad that has enough detail to allow the user to see if the finer details are in focus.  I have tried Capture Pilot with each version, (hasn't been updated in a while), and the 100% view is not sharp enough.  This is over Wifi, but even tethered, the view is going to be same IMO unless Capture Pilot is re-written.  Not to mention the countless wifi drops and inability to reestablish a wifi connection without rebooting iPad, back or both several times.  Great idea, but just not there yet.  Still can't understand why Phase can't make the app handle the retina display resolution for a 100% view and allow you to move around without lockups.  The connection to a thunderbolt/lightening etc may be faster but is there current even a Phase one solution to tether to that port?  USB3 seems to be the direction from Phase One.

As for C1 Pro on the new iPad, can't see that either as even if Phase re-wrote the software to iOS9, I don't feel the iPad, even latest pro, will have enough to run it.  May be wrong, but can't see it. 

What Mac, needs is a touch screen, small laptop, with a remove able keyboard, (like a surface pro) if field tethering is a requirement. 

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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Telecaster

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2015, 05:14:06 pm »

My current iPad Air 2 can handle 64mp RAWs from Olympus' EM-5ii (high-res mode) just fine. Of course the RAW processing software is very basic compared to C1. But I suspect a tablet-centric rewrite—not a port—would perform reasonably well. Can't imagine Phase One would bother, though, without an "assist" from Apple or a large increase in demand from tablet users. We snappers are still wedded to our desktops & laptops with their overweight OSes…a pity since a tablet, particularly with a pressure-sensitive surface or stylus, is IMO a superior post interface.

-Dave-
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synn

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2015, 05:24:41 pm »

My Surface Pro 3 works like an absolute charm and even doubles as an ersatz editing station while on the move. iOS devices are great for little things such as exposure calculators or FoV simulators, but I wouldn't use one of them as proper tethering tool, even the Pro (And I have 3 of them as well).

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BJL

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2015, 05:39:16 pm »

Apple has buried the connectivity details in its release hubbub, but it appears to simply have 1 'lightning' port, which is disheartening. Can that connect to an MF back's firewire or USB3 ports somehow?
There is a lighting to USB camera adaptor http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter, but AFAIK, only for importing photos to an iOS device.

"Do it Wireless" seems to be the current Apple philosophy for communicating with its mobile devices.  However, I do envision USB-C/Thunderbolt-3 coming to iPads some day, now that Intel and Apple have managed to get the USB Implementers Forum to allow the next generation of Thunderbolt to use the USB-C socket https://thunderbolttechnology.net/blog/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-does-it-all.  (At one stage, Intel planned use a version of the USB socket for the first generation Thunderbolt, but USB-IF prohibited that, so plan B was using mini Display Port.)
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2015, 08:08:08 pm »

I would think that the Surface Pro 3 (and soon to be announced 4) is a better solution for serious work since it runs native apps on Win10 and features a USB 3.0 port.

I am heavily invested in Apple products, but will most probably get a Surface Pro 4 later this year if it is everything it is rumoured to be (basically a Surface Pro 3 with better battery life and lower working temperature).

Cheers,
Bernard

jng

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2015, 08:42:39 pm »

A timely topic as, like the OP, I've been looking for a good tethering solution for my IQ160 in the field. As an old dog and long-time Mac user, I'm not sure that I can (or want to) learn how to navigate Windows on the Surface Pro. Does anyone have experience with USB3 tethering between an IQ back and the new Macbook or the previous Macbook Air? A tablet would be lighter and easier to handle, of course, but I'm thinking that the Macbook could provide an alternative for those Windows-phobes among us.

John
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Paul2660

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2015, 11:26:28 pm »

The MacBook pro will tether great. But in the field its a bit cumbersome both due to weight and the fact you cannot remove the keyboard. In the field the keyboard just gets in the way.

Ken's Doo's efforts have really paid off and with his latest clamp using the magnets it's as good as it can get. I love this setup still on the Surface 2.

Paul
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Ken Doo

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2015, 12:36:59 am »

John, there are more than a few die-hard Apple fans that have acquired a Surface Pro merely for its ability to tether with a Phase IQ USB3 enabled MFDB. Its tablet format makes it an ideal on-location tethering solution. It has the power of a laptop and its touch screen interface is a natural extension of the digital back's touchscreen.

And thank you, Paul, but you also helped in brainstorming and coming up with the latest Surface Pro CLITS clamp version with rare earth magnets.  https://kendoophotography.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/tethering-with-the-surface-pro-evolving-clamp-choices/

 :) ken
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 10:37:19 am by Ken Doo »
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aztwang

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2015, 02:40:13 am »

Ken,
Probably been asked before...does your connection method (Rare earth magnets) pose any kind of danger to SF hard drives? If I were to consider SP, what do you know about the 4?
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Paul2660

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2015, 08:59:52 am »

Ken,
Probably been asked before...does your connection method (Rare earth magnets) pose any kind of danger to SF hard drives? If I were to consider SP, what do you know about the 4?

I can't speak for Ken, but so far, no problems at all.  I have left my 2 and 3 on the mag clamp for up to 3 hours and no issues.  Not sure where the hard drive is located in the S2 (I know both units use solid state drives), or S3, but I have not seen any data corruption issues.

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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jng

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2015, 10:34:48 am »

The MacBook pro will tether great. But in the field its a bit cumbersome both due to weight and the fact you cannot remove the keyboard. In the field the keyboard just gets in the way.

Ken's Doo's efforts have really paid off and with his latest clamp using the magnets it's as good as it can get. I love this setup still on the Surface 2.

Paul

Paul: thanks for your comments. I agree that the ergonomics of a tablet are better than one would find with a laptop when working in the field, for the reasons you mention. However at a mere 2 pounds the newest Macbook is even lighter than the previous Macbook Air, so the laptop option may be worth considering if one could devise a clever Ken Doo-like solution for securing it to the tripod.

Ken: thanks for the encouragement. I may try the Surface Pro yet!

-John
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Ken Doo

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2015, 10:36:37 am »

The use of the UAG case on the Surface Pro serves two purposes: protect the SP and also provide a mounting point for the rare earth magnets to grab hold. I believe that the UAG case also provides sufficient shielding between the magnets and computer. Everything (all devices) is affected by magnets and common sense care is probably a good thing. The original purpose of these rare earth magnets (and the many knock-offs) is as a holder for cellular phones and tablets, all of which share similar electronics albeit on a different scale on the SP.  That being said, you should not have any problems using version III of the CLITS Clamp as described on my blog.  I went through quite a bit of materials, giron shielding, bits and pieces, etc. before arriving at this clamp version.  When storing/packing the clamp with the rare earth magnets, I strongly advise (common sense) that you store the clamp separate or away from other electronic devices so as to not inadvertently place a strong magnet against an area that should not have a magnet there! There should not be a problem if the magnets are left on the attachment point on the UAG case, but it is simply easier to remove when done tethering.

There is a lot of conjecture about what the Surface Pro 4 will have---it's been said that it is expected to be released this fall.  Each generation has been a more "mature" computing machine. The SP4 is said to offer better and larger screens and possibly more RAM. Some shooting in hot climes have complained about heat issues on the Surface Pro 3 with the i7 chip.  Consequently, imo, the best configuration is the core i5 with 8GB RAM.  More RAM on the SP4 would be welcome.  Unless the heat concerns are addressed with the i7 and SP4, it really isn't a big deal as I do all my real processing on my main studio machine, and the i5 running C1 Pro 8 is more than sufficient; the RAM is what makes the difference in terms of speed that the RAW image may be viewed on screen after capture.  A HUGE plus would be two full sized USB3 ports, but I'm doubtful.

ken

Paul2660

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2015, 11:06:44 am »

Just wanted to add, I tend to tether my S2 naked, no case, as the case just adds more weight.  So I have the plates attached to the back of the S2, and tape (gaffers) the kickstand closed.  So far no problems. 

I do this because in  Arkansas, heat and humidity are bad 6 to 7 months a year, the case adds just another layer to get hot and and it's black.  (at least mine is).  Allowing the S2 to be totally exposed just keeps it cooler.  I use a sleeve (again from Ken) that I keep the S2 in during travel.  The case fan on the S3 will come on pretty quickly, unlike the S2, which can take a bit more heat or so it seems.

I still use the S2 for my work as the S3 (I have the i5 with 8GB) seems to get hotter and mine does not have as good a battery life as the S2.  But mostly because my tired older eyes hate that tight resolution on the S3 screen, just hard to read for me.  The S2 is perfect in that regard.  I also feel I have less glare issues with the S2 than the S3.  Glare is the real killer but with the clamps you can use the S2/S3 on the tripod leg, and then pop it off for a look with the longer USB3 cable, and turn away from the sun to get away from the glare. 

Is it all worth it, to me yes.  As a tech camera user, I get eye strain looking at the IQ screen at 100% all day long.  Yes it's a great screen still best in the field IMO, but still small.  Tethered, you have the image at 100% instantly, and with the nav window (as a floating tool), can move around the file quickly.  You can also apply some highlight reduction or shadow push in C1 to see if you have pulled too much noise in shadows or blown a critical highlight.  However the 100% view on the much larger S2/S3 screen for focus check is the main benefit to me. 

My only issue, I sure wish Phase One will allow dual writes, i.e. to the card and PC but so far that has not been made possible, (not sure why it can't be done).

Paul


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eronald

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2015, 03:22:16 pm »

Why a vaporware iPad Pro discussion when one can use a perfectly good Macbook Air with C1?

Edmund
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jng

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2015, 06:37:51 pm »

Why a vaporware iPad Pro discussion when one can use a perfectly good Macbook Air with C1?

Edmund

I think I'd prefer the ergonomics of at tablet vs. a laptop with the hinged screen/keyboard arrangement. But I may just bite the bullet and get the new Macbook - it's around a third of a pound lighter than the Macbook Air it replaces, and if I tell my wife that I'm getting it to replace my iPad she won't think I'm spending more money on camera equipment! For the way that I use my Hassy V/IQ160 set-up (mostly on a tripod), it will be nice to focus/check focus on the larger Retina display instead of the IQ's screen - these old eyes just aren't what they used to be and I could use all the help I can get.
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eronald

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Re: iPad Pro tethering?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2015, 06:55:47 pm »

I think I'd prefer the ergonomics of at tablet vs. a laptop with the hinged screen/keyboard arrangement. But I may just bite the bullet and get the new Macbook - it's around a third of a pound lighter than the Macbook Air it replaces, and if I tell my wife that I'm getting it to replace my iPad she won't think I'm spending more money on camera equipment! For the way that I use my Hassy V/IQ160 set-up (mostly on a tripod), it will be nice to focus/check focus on the larger Retina display instead of the IQ's screen - these old eyes just aren't what they used to be and I could use all the help I can get.

I think this is one case where you shout and Beezlebub aka. Doug appears in a flash and provides the perfect solution. Doug is doubtless in the running for the most helpful Phase dealer in the world even if we don't always agree on the forum.

The problem is finding something which can connect to your back; possibly an alternative would be to find a wifi memory card of some sort that can be read remotely by a comp. If you find that, you'll still need some way to convert the Raw for viewing, although concievably in the studio a remote server could do that for you.  dSLR and Leica (I think)  and Pentax etc can just use any external cine monitor as they have HDMI out ports.

UPDATE I found this: http://www.eyefi.com/lp/cf

Edmund
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 09:11:01 pm by eronald »
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