A7rII review - single card.

[capital]

Hi Edmund, was there an associated image with this post?

"Look at the image for a few minutes, and the differences will start to pop out, and make the Pentax image go "3D" as the forest acquires depth. "

Was curious to see it, but I don't see the referring images.

[eronald]

People in my industry lose two pints and blood and keep working, so no we don't fail, unless we're dead so then I guess then it doesn't matter.

BC

J,
 I think you misread - my point is I DISAGREE with the  meme of  "only with 2 slots is it Professional" meme of the OP . Once it is a large shoot, a camera is just one more component in the mix. Camera works, great. Camera or any other hardware breaks at the last minute, there's some backup solution.

 As for people in the industry ... I don't get paid, but the people downstream from me do. When *I* do the occasional "free" shoot for a dress designer or a furniture designer, or a music video,  and it takes one day or 3 days full time and there's a team, it sure costs a lot to do, for everybody else involved. There is a budget, I'm just a zero-rated component of it, while equipment rental, location, makeup etc are budgeted and paid. But I've noticed that the budgeted "professionals" ie. models, sound guys, makeup, are flaky, it's a local attitude. Last time I went to the hospital, eight patents were waiting, and doctor had to be called back from 2 hour lunch by the nurses. Maybe the reason americans are more successful commercially *is* that they work their butt off.

 BTW, here is the person Sony really wants to use their cameras  -attached image

Edmund
 

[eronald]

Hi Edmund, was there an associated image with this post?

"Look at the image for a few minutes, and the differences will start to pop out, and make the Pentax image go "3D" as the forest acquires depth. "

Was curious to see it, but I don't see the referring images.

Capital,

 It's Michael's A7RII review, there's a 100% side-by side Pentax/Sony comparison image, which you can enlarge in your browser. to get the best impression of the color.
 And if you disagree with my reading of this image, I'm not going to get upset, I might even change my mind

Edmund

[pegelli]

I think you misread - my point is I DISAGREE with the  meme of  "only with 2 slots is it Professional" meme of the OP . Once it is a large shoot, a camera is just one more component in the mix. Camera works, great. Camera or any other hardware breaks at the last minute, there's some backup solution.

While I agree with your disagreement (there's plenty professional camera's that only hold one card and/or one film) the problem with failing memory cards cannot just be solved with a backup in the field. There have been many cases where the card worked fine in the field but once at the computer back in the office the pictures could not be retrieved. Most other components in the chain can be replaced in at the instant they fail (and should be available for a professional shoot) but in case the card fails like I described you're toast. 

[eronald]

While I agree with your disagreement (there's plenty professional camera's that only hold one card and/or one film) the problem with failing memory cards cannot just be solved with a backup in the field. There have been many cases where the card worked fine in the field but once at the computer back in the office the pictures could not be retrieved. Most other components in the chain can be replaced in at the instant they fail (and should be available for a professional shoot) but in case the card fails like I described you're toast. 

I agree with your point that these failures are a catastrophe for the lone shooter - although some here seem to say these failures are rare if you can keep card hygiene, that they are caused more by bad quality cards or a card that had its filesystem damaged in a computer.

On the other hand, precisely to avoid this issue, teams the size of those "Cooter" fields have a guy spooling the images to a computer and checking them. In fact, my executive producer had exactly this job on the video shoots he used to do.

A lot of the journos I know, and single shooters, keep changing cards to make sure all their imagery isn't only on one.

Edmund

[David Anderson]

A lot of the journos I know, and single shooters, keep changing cards to make sure all their imagery isn't only on one.

That helps, as does shooting with two cameras on everything, but I've found the most peace of mind with the second card.
Also, FWIW, on a lot of shoots, even big ones, I don't need to bring a computer and that frees up a lot of time for shooting.

[eronald]

That helps, as does shooting with two cameras on everything, but I've found the most peace of mind with the second card.
Also, FWIW, on a lot of shoots, even big ones, I don't need to bring a computer and that frees up a lot of time for shooting.

Interesting. This is a feature I never thought about a lot, and people feel very strongly about it.
My own pet feature is weather sealing, and most here don't seem to care.

Edmund

[Hans Kruse]

I always have my Canon and Nikon cameras setup writing the RAW files to two cards. I load the images from the SD card into my MacBook Pro when I'm back from every shoot and one 32GB card is plenty always for me. I gives me peace of mind that I have a backup on the second card in case of card failure. I have experienced one other situation not mentioned (I think as I did read all posts in the thread) and was one time I reformatted the SD card and I realized that I had not loaded the images!! Then I could load them from the CF card. Well that should never happen, of course, but I was tired after days of workshops and my normal routine is to load the images the evening before and I had not done that and I realized after I did the formatting in the morning. A stupid mistake and the second card saved from using recovery software to find the pictures on the formatted card. I has only happened once, though 

[rainer_v]

Yes i formatted also one time a cf card in my sinar back aftre a long shooting day. Nice moment when realizing that i pushed the wrong button ... But shit happens and is not a reason for me to stay scared now all the times that i'll do it again.
Also i was looking for traffic to the wrong side trying to pass a left driven street in Bangkok and was hit nearly  by some Autobus which came from the other side with 70 Mph... but thats not a reason now only to pass streets in zebra marked zones, but to be a bit more attentive to what i am doing in left drive countries .
For me this card thing is much overestimated and not to buy a cam zherefor is hair splitting. What did you do in film days? What with single card  mf backs?
btw. In 12 years of digital I remember one card failure years ago on a cf 4gb card, and this  files i could recover with some sw tool.

[eronald]

I always have my Canon and Nikon cameras setup writing the RAW files to two cards. I load the images from the SD card into my MacBook Pro when I'm back from every shoot and one 32GB card is plenty always for me. I gives me peace of mind that I have a backup on the second card in case of card failure. I have experienced one other situation not mentioned (I think as I did read all posts in the thread) and was one time I reformatted the SD card and I realized that I had not loaded the images!! Then I could load them from the CF card. Well that should never happen, of course, but I was tired after days of workshops and my normal routine is to load the images the evening before and I had not done that and I realized after I did the formatting in the morning. A stupid mistake and the second card saved from using recovery software to find the pictures on the formatted card. I has only happened once, though 

Hans, Rainer,

 These days, I wonder if one shouldn't simply keep the cards safe as storage at least until trip return, rather than reformat them. Thanks in part to the popularity of video and phones, the prices of "slow" SD card have really fallen.

Edmund

[kbolin]

I wonder, how many of you shot with two rolls of film in the same body?   

I know of one instance (and thankfully only one) where I kept shooting and finished what I thought was the roll of film only to rewind, process, and find out later that the film was not advancing at all.  One complete roll of film completely wasted and all those images lost.   Lost pics are not the exclusive domain of digital. 

Kelly

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Images can always be recovered from a newly formatted card. Actually, a lot of new images can be shot on the card after reformatting and the original images are still recoverable. The memory cells wear out, so the controller tries to spread the images over all of the card, so the memory areas recently used will not used before the card begins to fill up.

Yes, I would suggest dual slots are an advantage. Most MFD cameras are regarded to be professional but usually they don't have dual slots. Pentax 645Z has dual slots, Leica S I don't know.

Best regards
Erik

I always have my Canon and Nikon cameras setup writing the RAW files to two cards. I load the images from the SD card into my MacBook Pro when I'm back from every shoot and one 32GB card is plenty always for me. I gives me peace of mind that I have a backup on the second card in case of card failure. I have experienced one other situation not mentioned (I think as I did read all posts in the thread) and was one time I reformatted the SD card and I realized that I had not loaded the images!! Then I could load them from the CF card. Well that should never happen, of course, but I was tired after days of workshops and my normal routine is to load the images the evening before and I had not done that and I realized after I did the formatting in the morning. A stupid mistake and the second card saved from using recovery software to find the pictures on the formatted card. I has only happened once, though  

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Edmund,

Pentax 645Z has weather sealing and dual slots, a nice Sony sensor all paired with an attractive price.

Best regards
Erik

Interesting. This is a feature I never thought about a lot, and people feel very strongly about it.
My own pet feature is weather sealing, and most here don't seem to care.

Edmund

[Petrus]

I wonder, how many of you shot with two rolls of film in the same body?   

I know of one instance (and thankfully only one) where I kept shooting and finished what I thought was the roll of film only to rewind, process, and find out later that the film was not advancing at all.  One complete roll of film completely wasted and all those images lost.   Lost pics are not the exclusive domain of digital. 

Kelly

In the film days I shot with two bodies (kind of miss those Canon F1s with huge drives…), but still once managed to shoot with one body with film, one empty, and when realizing my mistake opened the filmed camera in mid-roll… Shooting with empty camera happened a couple of times in 25 years, wondering if the film was going to never end…

I have not had card failures in almost 10 years now, and by the simple rule of using only best cards (Sandisk), always formatting after use, never manipulating cards in PC and never deleting pictures in-camera I intend to keep it that way. I have shot several multi-week overseas jobs with single slot cameras without backups and without stressing about it too much. I did not worry too much about it when sending 100 rolls of KodaChrome home with a stranger found at the Bankok airport in 1984, something going awry now is certainly less probable. Keeping things simple also gives peace of mind and improves shooting.

[sbay]

Shooting with empty camera happened a couple of times in 25 years, wondering if the film was going to never end…

I just did that last week with my 5d2. Thankfully I realized about 30 minutes in and could just reshoot right there. I see that my A7RII actually has a custom setting to disable shooting when there's no card. I'm going to activate it.

[eronald]

I just did that last week with my 5d2. Thankfully I realized about 30 minutes in and could just reshoot right there. I see that my A7RII actually has a custom setting to disable shooting when there's no card. I'm going to activate it.

Film transport issues were a constant irritant with 35mm cameras - and in fact the old box camera I bought a year ago had the transport of 120 film lock up half through the roll.

Edmund

[Jeremy Roussak]

I just did that last week with my 5d2. Thankfully I realized about 30 minutes in and could just reshoot right there. I see that my A7RII actually has a custom setting to disable shooting when there's no card. I'm going to activate it.

So does the 5d2.

Jeremy

[sbay]

Found it. Thanks.

[David Anderson]

Film transport issues were a constant irritant with 35mm cameras - and in fact the old box camera I bought a year ago had the transport of 120 film lock up half through the roll.

I could type out horror stories about film until I had RSI or was removed from the forum..

The worst was having a quick set-up shoot with the Backstreet Boys when they were the thing and getting two very fast rolls through the Blad before it was over.
The first was clipped and then both were processed except there was some sort of tangle in the machine and they came off the racks and were seriously damaged. Luck was on my side however and a couple good frames spared including the clip.

I think some of my paranoia with memory cards actually started that day. 

[the_marshall_101]

If my camera had two card slots I would probably not use the second.  I would trust solid state memory more than I would trust mechanical elements in the chain like shutters, buttons, PCBs, etc.  Unless you duplicate all of those then you haven't really got redundancy.  Plus you could drop a camera with two cards in over a cliff and it probably wouldn't help you