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Author Topic: A7rII review - single card.  (Read 27035 times)

David Anderson

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A7rII review - single card.
« on: August 22, 2015, 02:31:11 am »

Thanks for the review Michael, I've been waiting for it.

So, it looks like an amazing camera from the spec sheets and certainly everyone who's review it seems pretty impressed.
The recent lenses to be released from Sony and Zeiss are also reading up pretty well - particularly the 90 macro.
In short, Sony is a very tempting proposition now.
But I can't get past the single SD card slot having had dual CF/SD card slots in my cameras for many many years now.
Though I've only had a few card problems since the start of digital, those problems have all been with SD's
Does this worry anyone else ?
Personally, I can't imagine shooting something important without that back-up, though maybe I'm overly cautious or even paranoid.. lol



« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 02:39:27 am by David Anderson »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2015, 02:56:26 am »

Same concern here.

In my book it rules out the a7rII for mission critical applications where the higher bulk of my existing gear isn't a major problem (and bulk has never been a major problem objectively speaking).

That's fine, v3 or the a9 will for sure fix that. I'll happily let the hype crowd fund the R&D activity at Sony until they get it really right and will continue shooting with my highly performing gear in the meantime. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 02:58:36 am by BernardLanguillier »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2015, 03:08:49 am »

Hi,

Phase One cameras are also single card, although being regarded fully professional. Yes, dual cards would be preferable, no doubt.

I dont really think the A7 series are professional cameras, the A7 designation is a clue, all "professional" cameras from Minolta/Sony had a 9 in their names, like A900, A99 and A9?

Best regards
Erik


Thanks for the review Michael, I've been waiting for it.

So, it looks like an amazing camera from the spec sheets and certainly everyone who's review it seems pretty impressed.
The recent lenses to be released from Sony and Zeiss are also reading up pretty well - particularly the 90 macro.
In short, Sony is a very tempting proposition now.
But I can't get past the single SD card slot having had dual CF/SD card slots in my cameras for many many years now.
Though I've only had a few card problems since the start of digital, those problems have all been with SD's
Does this worry anyone else ?
Personally, I can't imagine shooting something important without that back-up, though maybe I'm overly cautious or even paranoid.. lol




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Manoli

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2015, 03:25:57 am »

We've already been through this in an earlier thread.

There is no MILC format camera that has dual card slots.
There's not been a digital Leica M with dual card slots
If you need dual card slots then buy a larger DSLR with all its limitations.

ITM, I'd no more think of going on a 'mission-critical' shoot with a single cam any more than I would relying on a single form of backup - dual card slots included. If I wanted the cam, for the cam's sake - I wouldn't be deterred by the single card, I'd look for an alternate safety strategy.



« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 04:32:54 am by Manoli »
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Manoli

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2015, 04:31:33 am »

Personally, I can't imagine shooting something important without that back-up ..

Tethered backup to dual SSD's ?
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AlterEgo

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2015, 10:56:52 am »

I dont really think the A7 series are professional cameras
no need to think at all



scene modes, less custom modes.
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eronald

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2015, 11:31:13 am »

The rendering of greens, green yellows  and browns is completely different between the Pentax and the Sony. The Sony has "global green".
Look at the image for a few minutes, and the differences will start to pop out, and make the Pentax image go "3D" as the forest acquires depth.

Edmund
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AlterEgo

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2015, 11:34:28 am »

The rendering of greens, green yellows  and browns is completely different between the Pentax and the Sony.
how did you exclude raw converter + whatever camera profile was used here (that is not to say that they certainly have different CFA properties) ?
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eronald

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2015, 02:29:11 pm »

how did you exclude raw converter + whatever camera profile was used here (that is not to say that they certainly have different CFA properties) ?

I'm not "excluding" profiles, these are the published images, with whatever real-life tools have been employed by this reviewer.
Presumably, these are the colors *users* will be getting.
Each camera has strong points and weaker ones; the Sony has a  zillion ISO, 40MP resolution, 4K video, a 5 axis stabiliser, a light portable body, and a good price point. Let us give the more expensive, large, heavy and conservative Pentax its due, *in these pictures* it shows  better color discrimination in the greens, giving more depth to the forest. Possibly a better lens or a different Raw processor on either camera would change that. There is also probably Jpeg on both, to set a baseline.

Give Michael his due, he publishes honest real-life comparison pictures; it is up to us to each of us decide what we see in them.
And by the way, as you know, I was an ICC member, and a consultant to Xrite, so I am familiar wiith profiles.

Edmund
PS. I wish Michael posted the raws or at least Jpegs somewhere.
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AlterEgo

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2015, 02:55:55 pm »

Give Michael his due
if he is trying just to reflect what an average Joe is getting then it is not interesting (or rather inspiring) at all... due withheld  :D
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Chris Livsey

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2015, 04:28:52 pm »


 Pentax its due, *in these pictures* it shows  better color discrimination in the greens, giving more depth to the forest. Possibly a better lens or a different Raw processor on either camera would change that. There is also probably Jpeg on both, to set a baseline.


Did a discussion recently not point out the value of monitoring the channels closely and using a CC filter for the heavy green channel if necessary and that the WB had a major role in colour, particularly green, discrimination?
Michael does point point out that in the tower test both were set to daylight (although that point could differ between the cameras ? ) and the colour "rendition" was very different, (as was the contrast) I assume he used the same RAW processor or perhaps OOC Jpegs, does he say? but of course in RAW the profiles will vary so his comment is perhaps not helpful.
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aaron

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2015, 05:56:27 pm »

The single card slot is the number one reason many professionals (that I work with...)will not seriously consider the Sony A7 range.
It was an obvious and easy addition for Sony to add to the A7RII, the fact they didn't  says a lot about who they aim the range at.

The battery life is the second biggest issue for me.
The lack of repair services is the final hurdle, it's not a cheap camera by any measure, who's going to fix it when it breaks?
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eronald

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2015, 07:15:37 pm »

Did a discussion recently not point out the value of monitoring the channels closely and using a CC filter for the heavy green channel if necessary and that the WB had a major role in colour, particularly green, discrimination?
Michael does point point out that in the tower test both were set to daylight (although that point could differ between the cameras ? ) and the colour "rendition" was very different, (as was the contrast) I assume he used the same RAW processor or perhaps OOC Jpegs, does he say? but of course in RAW the profiles will vary so his comment is perhaps not helpful.


Chris,

 This just confirms my impressions from other pix posted on the web, before Michael's test - the difference here being that thanks to Michael we have a contemporaneous comparison image from a "benchmark" landscape camera.

 In any case, this seems  at most a minor "look" issue. And it might well be a non issue and a better profile or some Raw magic may improve matters. We'll find out in due course. For the RED Dragon, filtering does help with a color issue:



 It will be interesting to see whether Nikon versions of this sensor behave the same ie. have the same CFA.

 BTW, does someone have experience with the H4D60 or H5D60 vs the 40 or 50 vis vis green discrimination? I saw some 60 pictures once which were very good.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 07:27:45 pm by eronald »
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adias

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2015, 10:02:16 pm »

The rendering of greens, green yellows  and browns is completely different between the Pentax and the Sony. The Sony has "global green".
Look at the image for a few minutes, and the differences will start to pop out, and make the Pentax image go "3D" as the forest acquires depth.

Edmund

The Sony color look (probably their Bayer filter choice) is cold-looking. Tough to correct easily in post. And it seems to be across their line of mirrorless cameras. Same in the NEX series I am most familiar with, and that issue is not minor in my book. The look of my 10-year-old EOS 5D still wins everyday over any Sony shot I have seen.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 10:08:32 pm by adias »
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scooby70

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2015, 11:53:06 pm »

The Sony color look (probably their Bayer filter choice) is cold-looking. Tough to correct easily in post. And it seems to be across their line of mirrorless cameras. Same in the NEX series I am most familiar with, and that issue is not minor in my book. The look of my 10-year-old EOS 5D still wins everyday over any Sony shot I have seen.


I find the opposite. Myself and everyone I've asked who has expressed a consistent preference "look" wise rather than subject wise prefers my Sony A7 images to my Canon 5D images.

I shoot raw and process in CS5 with no heroic measures. The Sony A7 files are IMO gorgeous. 5D files are merely nice :D
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Chris Livsey

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2015, 04:14:18 am »


Now is the RII a pro camera.  Yes, in the right hands.  My friend Brian Smith http://briansmith.com/photography/ uses it and doesn't see any major issues and he makes his living with a camera in his hand, he's very successful, and probably knows more about Sony still cameras than any working photographer in the western hemisphere.  You don't shoot imagery that debuts in the Library Of Congress, with sub par cameras.
IMO
BC


From the web site link:
Travel and portrait photography shot on Plastic Diana and Holga cameras.
Fine Art Portraits and travel photography shot with large format 45 and 810 large format cameras

How many more times, it's not the camera it's what's in front and behind it.

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2015, 04:33:37 am »

How many more times, it's not the camera it's what's in front and behind it.

Hi Chris,

Only up to a point. I'm sure that e.g. the Holga shots were not because of it being a superior camera and optics to do the job, but because it was easier to get a certain 'look' (and was less likely to get stolen). Camera's are 'enablers', a tool to allow or assist in achieving a goal. For example, one usually cannot shoot a good/sharp/detailed distant 'Birds in Flight' image when the camera does not allow to use a tele lens and high enough shutter speed to achieve a close-up view of the bird that's not totally blurred by motion.

Setting the goal, and executing the creation (assuming the camera allows to do it(!)), and post-processing to achieve the creative intent, are up to the photographer, I agree. But if the camera doesn't deliver the raw material that's fit to work on, then there is something wrong, and it's not the photographer but his gear.

As to a single card, I do not think that it is necessarily a showstopper. I do not use my current dual card camera capability to shoot duplicates (but rather have it set up to avoid having to switch out full cards in the middle of a time critical event), but it may be useful to do so, which makes it a good option to have and activate when a bit of additional assurance is required. Useful additional feature, yes, a showstopper, no.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 04:44:18 am by BartvanderWolf »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2015, 05:28:06 am »

Hi Chris,

You may have not followed Iliah Borg a long time as I have. Otherwise you would know that he favours magenta filtering in general for most cameras. I first stumbled on this when UniWB was discussed to increase accuracy of histograms on digital cameras and Iliah suggested the use of a magenta filter to balance out channels. Long before A7...

Best regards
Erik

Did a discussion recently not point out the value of monitoring the channels closely and using a CC filter for the heavy green channel if necessary and that the WB had a major role in colour, particularly green, discrimination?
Michael does point point out that in the tower test both were set to daylight (although that point could differ between the cameras ? ) and the colour "rendition" was very different, (as was the contrast) I assume he used the same RAW processor or perhaps OOC Jpegs, does he say? but of course in RAW the profiles will vary so his comment is perhaps not helpful.

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Chris Livsey

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2015, 05:56:17 am »

Hi Chris,
You may have not followed Iliah Borg a long time as I have.
Best regards
Erik


That's where I read it, thank you Erik.
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Chris Livsey

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Re: A7rII review - single card.
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2015, 05:59:59 am »

Hi Chris,

Only up to a point.
Cheers,
Bart

Indeed, the penalty of posting one liners, they are great for point making, but not subtle. I of course agree that the camera does matter but in the euphoria surrounding new equipment it is often put on one side that there are other factors involved. BC is rather good at making that point, better than I.

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