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Author Topic: looking for a CINEX to RESOLVE stable workflow  (Read 45362 times)

fredjeang2

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looking for a CINEX to RESOLVE stable workflow
« on: August 17, 2015, 12:03:08 pm »

Hi,
Does someone has ever tried cutting in RCX and roundtripping to Resolve directly without using any NLE?

I'm looking for AAF export from RCX and it does not.

So far I have not been able to use RCX properly in any interchange configuration.
As an example:
I'd like to be able to, using EDL or XML, to send an edit to RCX, and from RCX back to the editor or directly to Resolve.
It doesn't work as it should.
RCX is giving me problems with both EDLs and XML while roundtripping from Avid to Lightworks to Resolve to Nuke, in-out-upsidedown
work perfectly fine. So I asume RCX (the latest #) is weired or has a bug.

Any thoughts?
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fredjeang2

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Re: looking for a CINEX to RESOLVE stable workflow
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2015, 07:03:42 pm »



Why would you institute this workflow?

Cinex is really just a first light processing suite and since RED is dedicated to using it for processing a useable file, from high bit depth prores, or for proxy.  

Sure you can edit in it, but very roughly, like burning out a long daily.

I guess you can make any suite do the basics for what they're not meant for but once again . . . why?

IMO

BC
Hi James,

I managed to make it work with XML. (EDL does not work for a reason I ignore but XML yes)

Well, yes, it sounds useless at first but there is indeed a reason.

Lightworks conects the RMDs, so when you build a look or simply a gamma change in RCX, The raw changes are reflected in the editor.
In the case you have a simple edit, done in RCX, bake your looks, export a final cut pro 7 XML (not the X version)
and bang...your timeline is now in LW as you did in RCX, and all your files in the bin. As simple as that.
It's helpfull, although not really what I'd do in 95% of the cases but knowing that you can do a quick edit and then send it to the NLE in 10 seconds is
good to know. Because when you got a storyboard done in RCX, once it's in the editor, you can trim etc...
And the raws enter the editor with the correct look. So no bloody "source settings Access" within the editor wich is something I really find limitating
because no source settings Access gives you the flexibility of RCX.
It's not as useless as it look at first, but I admit, not orthodox either.

With Arriraw you can't do it except yes sending an edit from the editor to Arriraw converter but with RCX it's posible to send an edit decision to the NLE.
Tested and verified stamp.
Can be usefull.

Ps: as always, for that to work as it should, NO FILE NAME CHANGES and folder structure untouched.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 01:59:25 pm by fredjeang2 »
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John Brawley

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Re: looking for a CINEX to RESOLVE stable workflow
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2015, 11:40:08 pm »

Hi,
Does someone has ever tried cutting in RCX and roundtripping to Resolve directly without using any NLE?



Why not cut in Resolve directly and avoid RCX ?

JB
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fredjeang2

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Re: looking for a CINEX to RESOLVE stable workflow
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2015, 07:50:47 am »

Rcx is light, not as demanding as Resolve so it can
Be a nice option to have on some slower workstations.
Resolve needs high specs.

RCX isn't really made for editing. It's
Really really basic. But it can be interesting roundtripping
With interchange files.

I'm sure Resolve 12 is going to be THE all-in-one for everyone. And well disserved.
Now, depending on each user and what follows is very
Personal, question of taste, I won't cut in Resolve for now.
Not because I find it bad, but because when editorial
Is concerned, there are better options (for me).
Resolve is above all a color-conform app where they recently added a solid editing capability.
I do think it's a game changer.
But I still think that specialists tools are better suited,
Of course that leads to the question of roundtripping.
No more roundtripping with R12 except for compositing to Nuke or Fusion.
That in itself is good.
But once the roundtripping works fine with no hassles,
I still prefer a dedicated NLE.
Now, it's just me.

If I had all the budget, I would cut LW, compo Fusion and color Baselight.

With less budget, I cut LW, compo Fusion and color-conform Resolve 11 and Scratch on rental is IMO
The only possible alternative to Resolve.

If LW disppears in the future, then I'll probably cut-color-conform Resolve 13, 14 etc...
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 02:02:51 pm by fredjeang2 »
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John Brawley

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Re: looking for a CINEX to RESOLVE stable workflow
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2015, 06:47:42 pm »

My friend, I'm so confused as to what you're trying to achieve. 

Please take this in a lighthearted way....

What I'm hearing from you now is....

You want to avoid roundtripping ?

You want to use dedicated NLE, but you're looking to reduce the steps ?

RCX doesn't do editing very well it so you're posting here to ask what does ?

You don't like R12 because it isn't a dedicated NLE and won't run on older machines, even though you're asking if anyone edits in the LESSOR editing capable RCX ?

You then list an ideal setup which features NONE of the applications we're discussing.

I am honestly confused at what you're trying to hold onto by tying yourself in these knots.  You want something that delivers very high end results, on a low spec machine without lot's of steps but wanting to use discrete colour correction / editing and compositing applications and still linking back to RCX ?

By the way, Resolve 12 now runs MUCH BETTER on lower specced machines. You really should give it a try.

JB
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fredjeang2

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Re: looking for a CINEX to RESOLVE stable workflow
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2015, 12:16:58 pm »

John,

I simply setup one type of workflow with RCX
That in some cases can be usefull but not pretend to be by any means a core workflow.
What I tested with XML is actually used by a lot of
Red owners-users, you can find many imputs on
This in red forum.
I think I might expressed myself not well enough in english (and it can well be) because it's a workflow
Quite used, so far, only in some particular cases
Wich consists in using RCX to both settle looks and
Eventually a quick edit or stoeyboard that can be shared
Elsewhere. How? With XML or EDL.
My point was a DIT investigation. "can this be done?, so how"
But it doesn't mean I will use it extensively. Rcx is too weak as an editor, but it does have some basic capabilities, just like Arriraw does.
 I like to know how things are working. The tricks
Behind the tricks.
Now I managed to do it properly, in the process learned
A thing or 2 but probably will not use this workflow
Except for some exceptions.

Also, keep in mind that the source access in both RCX
And Arriraw are much more featured when it comes
To their brand's files than the controls in Resolve or Sratch. Logical. We're not yet in CC, but in Raw stage.
Of course, no way back to rcx after a CC in resolve.
Arriraw converter, just like RCX is a key peice in Arri
Workflow, just like Capture one for Phase one. Resolve
Is more equivalent to Photoshop. The place to build the
Final look but not necesarly the place to dev proprietary raw files. For BM it's very different.

About roudtripping, I used to be a strong defensor
Of all-in-one application and still am.
And people who know me here can confirm that I've
Been very very heavy on wanting an application like
R12. So I couldn't be happier BM did it.
Roundtripping are often a source of problems.
Therefore, I applaude R12 and I wrote here that it is
A game changer and IMO, is going to be the most used application worldwide.
But in the meantime, I also evolved, discover new things.
The only point why I'm not rushing into R12 like a gold mine is that the roundtripping between LW
And Resolve is hassle-free, very easy and stable, so
I don't feel the need to cut in R12 for the moment
That the pipeline works smooth.
I put priority on what LW gives as a dedicated NLE and
Resolve as a dedicated color-conform app.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 03:16:50 pm by fredjeang2 »
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John Brawley

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Re: looking for a CINEX to RESOLVE stable workflow
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2015, 05:35:03 pm »



Also, keep in mind that the source access in both RCX
And Arriraw are much more featured when it comes
To their brand's files than the controls in Resolve or Sratch.


Tell me though, precisely what control do you only have in their native apps that you don't have in Resolve or Scratch ?

We went though this discussion last time and the only thing you told me was that you like the way that the metatdata updates in your NLE if you make a change in RCX...

That to me is a workflow advantage, not a feature advantage.

JB
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fredjeang2

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Re: looking for a CINEX to RESOLVE stable workflow
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2015, 06:36:24 am »



That to me is a workflow advantage, not a feature advantage.

JB

Correct.

To be fair, is there a real advantage on using RCX prior to...?
Really: no! Absolutly not if one starts in Resolve.
Rcx is just a raw dev, with "look" creator. No way comparable
To the power of Resolve or Scratch.

An app like RCX only makes sense for FCP, Lightworks kind of, workflow.
If I want to access the source settings, I could well do it
In Resolve as well and also save rmd and also having my timeline
Updated. No RCX is really needed. What's the problem then?
Easy: I can cut native in LW at low debayer not to loose a relatively
Smooth editing with RCX open at the same time. Because RCX is light.
But I couldn't
Have both Lightworks and Resolve running together while
Cutting native Red and keep a smooth editing while I'd use
Resolve as a source settings access. It slows down too much. Too much stress.
RCX imo is better suited for on set, it's not a color app
But allows to create looks on its own very similar
To a still photography application like Focus or Capture one.
Same philosophy.
In Resolve, RCX is completly pointless.
In a NLE it can be helpfull.

There are people who never ever use RCX in their workflow
And other who yes use it.
This has been a hot debate in Red forum, if RCX is really
Usefull or not and it's completly divided. Depending on the
Kind of workflow of each user, the answer would be different.

An example that actually happened to me more than once.
Got the guru (director) next to me and we are rewiewing
A storyboard in the editor. Guru sees a take and wants to test
A quick look in real time. What would I use? The CC of the editor?
Nope! They are all crap. I would roundtripp to Resolve
Just to test a quick look? No, because Resolve comes later
For serious grading and as I said, opening Resolve while
You are cutting native in another platform is too heavy.
My budget does not allows me to have such computer
Power. In this case, guru wants to see something
Quick...not entering in "color mode", then RCX is the way to go.

If I'd like to do that, let's say inAvid, the source settings access
Is common to a limited range of control like gamma, colorspace,
Isos, but not allows to color correct deeper as RCX.
Arriraw also has the very same color controls.
So instead of using the color tools of the editor, RCX gives
Me the tools needed to bake a real look at source level.
Then of course, a proper CC in Resolve is needed later.
So it really acts as a mini color app.

People use it also to batch process Prores or DNx or others
Like EXR

Then: RCX becomes really important for ACES workflow
To create open EXR aces files.

Bottom line: is RCX usefull? Some will say cathegoricaly no.
Others will say yes.
For a colorist, RCX has no meaning at all.
For a DIT on set, much more.
For editing it has its function except if you edit in Resolve.
So in the end everybody's right.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 08:22:27 am by fredjeang2 »
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