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Author Topic: A7RII initial thoughts and images  (Read 200948 times)

adrian tyler

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #180 on: August 11, 2015, 08:45:04 am »

my last image posting may have been a bit extreme and harsh on the camera, here is a shot at 6400 asa with no retouching in acr using the sony 55 lens:
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #181 on: August 11, 2015, 12:40:19 pm »

... here is a shot at 6400 asa with no retouching in acr using the sony 55 lens:

Color me unimpressed.

I posted this in an earlier thread, taken with a lowly Canon sensor (6D) at ISO 16,000 (yes, sixteen thousand):

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=94724.msg784931#msg784931

ErikKaffehr

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #182 on: August 11, 2015, 12:58:27 pm »

Hi Slobodan,

Canons have always been good at high ISO. Just to say, subject matters, too. And so does the photographer…

Best regards
Erik

Color me unimpressed.

I posted this in an earlier thread, taken with a lowly Canon sensor (6D) at ISO 16,000 (yes, sixteen thousand):

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=94724.msg784931#msg784931
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eronald

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #183 on: August 11, 2015, 01:30:30 pm »

Color me unimpressed.

I posted this in an earlier thread, taken with a lowly Canon sensor (6D) at ISO 16,000 (yes, sixteen thousand):

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=94724.msg784931#msg784931

The A7II isn't extraordinarily good at anything, the interesting thing is all the things it can do decently. I'm also not impressed by those images, but my 1Ds3 won't make them, and my Nikon D4 is not in the same price class.

This applies as much to its High Iso stills performance as to the rest of the package. On the other hand, Sony's lenses seem to be starting to earn respect.

Of course the more E mount FF cameras Sony sells, the better their cameras will get, they have momentum on their side.


Edmund

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eronald

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #184 on: August 11, 2015, 03:28:42 pm »

Canon have been playing the segmentation game to the hilt since the 5D2: Prosumer customers are now supposed to buy one camera for hi-rez, another for  hi speed hi ISO, and yet another for video.

Sony have one camera that does all three, cheaply. People are -surprise- going to do the maths of buying one cheap "good enough "rather than 3 expensive "best".

Edmund
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hjulenissen

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #185 on: August 11, 2015, 03:33:38 pm »

The A7II isn't extraordinarily good at anything, the interesting thing is all the things it can do decently.
...
(Coming from the Canon 7D) I see the A7RII as a landscape/hiking camera with 4k video thrown in.

I.e. not necessarily an allround camera if that includes lots of sports/action.

So how much lighter/smaller will the total package be than say a Nikon D810, and how will total image quality compare (including IBIS, shutter shock, MF accuracy, lossy raw)? 36 vs 42 MP is nothing.

I believe that I could make do with the A7RII, the Batis 25mm and the 90mm macro. When prices drop considerably. Until then, I still have some learning in front of me with what I have.

-h
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eronald

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #186 on: August 11, 2015, 08:42:37 pm »


To me I would only use the Sony for some motion work because of the image stabilization but the video clips I’ve seen so far are fairly blah, not close to the $1,000 panasonic gh4 up to 1000 asa.

The only issue with the gh4 is the processor is a little overcooked at 4k making the autofocus for video hunt, where the gh3 was fairly good.  Also the panasonic have a heavy yellow bias that has to be graded out.


The GH4 video continuous AF is unusable. I am surprised they haven't fixed it with firmware somehow.

I agree that GH4 owners aren't going to be impressed by the video samples from the Sony -and the stabilisation on the 12-35 is superb. we haven't seen the uncompressed stuff from the Sony yet though IMHO.

I think Canon have 3 teams in the design offices now, all fighting not to be made redundant, so 3 camera lines + the prosumer stuff. unfortunately the prosumer stuff seems to be the best designed in the bunch.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 08:44:12 pm by eronald »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #187 on: August 11, 2015, 08:43:24 pm »

For stills why not just buy a 5dS which by all accounts seems to be a better still camera and the lenses work well in their native mounts.

If I may ask, how so?

Besides having a few extra mega pixels, I fail to see any other account by which the 5Ds is a superior still camera. It is pretty much behind on all measurable aspects.

Granted, it works better with Canon Lenses. But apparently just a bit.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #188 on: August 11, 2015, 08:53:24 pm »

If I may ask, how so?

Besides having a few extra mega pixels, I fail to see any other account by which the 5Ds is a superior still camera. It is pretty much behind on all measurable aspects.

Granted, it works better with Canon Lenses. But apparently just a bit.

Cheers,
Bernard



The Canon works with ALL Canon lenses. The Sony still seems a bit picky. Early days.
Next we will talk about Nikon - we all know where the Nikon sensors come from so what more is there to expect once Sony gets the focus completely solved?

Edmund
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adias

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #189 on: August 11, 2015, 09:26:53 pm »

"... Besides having a few extra mega pixels, I fail to see any other account by which the 5Ds is a superior still camera. It is pretty much behind on all measurable aspects."

The keyword is 'measurable'. I keep looking at 5DSR and A7RII shots and fail to see te latter DR advantage in real shots. Yeah, I can see the lab measurements, but in practice...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #190 on: August 11, 2015, 09:28:38 pm »

Next we will talk about Nikon - we all know where the Nikon sensors come from so what more is there to expect once Sony gets the focus completely solved?

Indeed. Very similar high res sensors, the Sony will have the advantage of compactness and in body stabilization, just like they had in the past with the a900. The Nikon will have the advantage of a much larger lenses line up, including extremely high level performers from Zeiss. If you need a soon to be announced D5 or 1Dx II, then Sony doesn't really have a credible contender... yet.

Overall, for new comers who don't mind using an EVF, the Sony is IMHO a total no brainer compared to the Nikon/Canon. Unless you need specific AF lenses, such as the long super tele, at their peak level of performance, in which case the Sony isn't really a credible contender... yet.

Being deeply invested in F mount lenses and already benefiting from the D810 sensor, I find the price of the a7rII way too steep to be attractive. That cash will go in a 200mm f2.0 E FL or in a Zeiss Otus 25mm f1.4 when those lenses are announced in the coming months. They will deliver many more real work benefits relative to my needs.

Cheers,
Bernard

george2787

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #191 on: August 11, 2015, 09:54:23 pm »

If I may ask, how so?

Besides having a few extra mega pixels, I fail to see any other account by which the 5Ds is a superior still camera. It is pretty much behind on all measurable aspects.

Granted, it works better with Canon Lenses. But apparently just a bit.

Cheers,
Bernard


Right now I shoot the 5dIII and looked at the a7rII as an alternative to the 5ds/5dsR, I shoot commercial/editorial and my days are 99% tethered and my take is:


Canon pluses

- USB 3 and vs micro usb 2, I'd have to try both in a real life scenario to talk about reliability.

- Battery size, shooting stills you need at most 1 battery change on a 5d3 for a busy day.

- All my canon lenses are going to AF up to standard at least on the 5Ds, I've read different opinions about speed and reliability with different adapters and firmware upgrades... cool but i need a camera shooting 100% the day I buy it (and tethering to c1 BTW, right now none of the two without a workaround)

- Dual cards, it doesn't matter if you shoot tethered but for those rare days is nice to have a backup

- HSS with profoto B1s, maybe they will open it to sony

Sony's pluses

- Dynamic range: It would be nice to have it, I know I can get lovely pictures without it but hey, the more the merrier  ;D

- Sensor stabilizer, really nice, but from what i've read turning it on and of every time you go in and out the tripod would be a pain in the a$$, not to mention you have to input the focal length every time you change lenses if you're using adaptors (correct me if I'm wrong)

- Size and weight, and advantage to many

- WITH sony mount lenses the af seems very good and the face tracking would make the tripod days easier.

- Zeiss  with AF: every time i look at the otus I'm tempted to buy both but without AF I'd use them maybe 15-20% of the time, so I need another option (canon/sigma) on the same focal length with the added bulk, weight and $$ on top of the already bulky, heavy and super expensive otus  :-[


So for my kind of work is going to be a compromise and going the sony route will mean transition into a new system in a short period of time and get a bunch of new lenses, accessories, a second body... right now and without any testing I'm leaning towards the canon that seems like the safest bet.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 09:58:19 pm by george2787 »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #192 on: August 11, 2015, 09:56:43 pm »

So for my kind of work is going to be a compromise and going the sony route will mean transition into a new system in a short period of time and get a bunch of new lenses, accessories, a second body... right now and without any testing I'm leaning towards the canon that seems like the safest bet.

Interesting points indeed.

The lack of double SD card slot on the a7rII is indeed a regrettable omission for mission critical applications. I had problems again with an SD card last week, fortunately I was shooting with a 2 slots D750.

I also use the B1/D1 and had forgotten that the Sony was not supported. That would also pretty much kill it for me too for exterior flash photography, although I don't do that too often.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 10:14:48 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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D Fuller

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #193 on: August 11, 2015, 10:29:56 pm »

my last image posting may have been a bit extreme and harsh on the camera, here is a shot at 6400 asa with no retouching in acr using the sony 55 lens:

I'm having a hard time understanding the excitement about taking pictures of night scenes that look like day. They all look just awful to me--like some kind of weird surveillance camera took them.

I've been playing with an A7s recently and it's really good in low light, but what  look good are pics that still look like night. They have rich, dark blacks that you can see into, but they don't look like daylight. That camera really excels at shooting night that looks like night, but it still needs a bit of light--if only moonlight--to look good. And if you try to push it too bright, it looks just awful.

I think that if you printed these night images down a bit they (and the camera) would look better.
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Paul Roark

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #194 on: August 11, 2015, 11:02:33 pm »

Regarding Leica M wide angles, the magenta color is gone, but the softness is still there.  The Tri-Elmar 16-18-21 ("WATE") is still the only M wide I can recommend.  The Zeiss 18 zm Distagon is also not good on it.  I don't have the Leica M 35s.  The Zeiss 35 f/2.8 C Biogon is soft at the edges. 

Not much time with the camera yet, but that shutter sure is a nice and obvious change.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #195 on: August 12, 2015, 01:52:17 am »

Now, will buying a a7rII will make you happier than not buying one?

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy

Cheers,
Bernard

adrian tyler

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #196 on: August 12, 2015, 02:13:55 am »

I'm having a hard time understanding the excitement about taking pictures of night scenes that look like day. They all look just awful to me--like some kind of weird surveillance camera took them.

I've been playing with an A7s recently and it's really good in low light, but what  look good are pics that still look like night. They have rich, dark blacks that you can see into, but they don't look like daylight. That camera really excels at shooting night that looks like night, but it still needs a bit of light--if only moonlight--to look good. And if you try to push it too bright, it looks just awful.

I think that if you printed these night images down a bit they (and the camera) would look better.

hi there, i kind of agree but understood that this was a thread to provide images and information about this new camera, if you'd like to see my photo prowess here is a link to some books i have published, most are out of print and command high prices, apologies if the "test shot" offended your asthetic sensibilities!:
http://www.adriantyler.net/alhambra.html
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brandon

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #197 on: August 12, 2015, 05:11:42 am »

Lovely photos Adrian (your linked portfolio/publications)
and thanks for sharing sample shots with the camera. Im sure most people understand the difference between your creative work and providing a preliminary look at the performance of a new camera under xyz conditions. Some seem to be critical and not respect the difference in their comments
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shadowblade

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #198 on: August 12, 2015, 06:14:34 am »

As a landscape shooter who bought into digital with the 5D2 (since it was then able to outshoot colour MF film), the A7rII is probably the best successor to the 5D2 out there.

It has the best image quality of any non-MF body out there. AF with Canon lenses is similar to the 5D2, although, unlike the 5D2, more than the centre point is usable. The single SD card is disappointing, but not a deal-breaker for most (anyone know of a lightweight device that can copy SD cards while on the trail?). Battery life is not great, but you can carry 2-3 Sony batteries in the space/weight of a single LP-E6. In short, it performs just like a 5D2, but with a much better sensor. Sure, AF is not great (relative to top-end SLRs - relative to other mirrorless bodies it's amazing) but no-one ever bought the 5D2 for its AF either, and, when shooting landscapes you'll be using MF anyway. If you use it in the same way as many people used the 5D2 - as a body with a best-for-its-time sensor, for the utmost image quality without needing much in the way of other features - you won't be disappointed.

Considering the alternatives, the 5D3 doesn't really improve on IQ compared with the 5D2 and the D810 can't take Canon lenses, so neither are really much of a successor to the 5D2 in terms of being a high-IQ, high-resolution, Canon-lens-compatible camera for shooting subjects that don't do much. Each has strengths in other areas (notably AF for the 5D3, and just being an all-round kick-ass camera for the D810) but neither really improved on the 5D2 in terms of what they offered for that core group of 5D2 users (the D810 being a non-starter for those heavily invested in Canon lenses). The 5Ds is a true successor, but the sensor doesn't quite match that of the A7rII, although it comes closer than any other Canon sensor. So, for the purposes of shooting nonmoving subjects with as great an image quality as possible, it's hard to beat the A7rII at the moment.

Incidentally, though, the 5Ds may just be the best *wildlife* camera on the market at the moment - with top-level AF, a full-frame sensor and the pixel density of a crop sensor, it allows for fantastic cropability, in effect turning every lens into a 1-1.6x zoom lens (if you consider the crop sensor area the minimum acceptable size for image quality) and making for much easier framing while shooting. Also, since there's very little overlap between wildlife lenses and landscape lenses, it becomes perfectly possible to run two separate systems side-by-side at no greater cost compared to using the same system (e.g. Canon or Nikon) for both. 5Ds, 200-400 f/4L and 600L for wildlife, plus A7rII (or D810) and your choice of shorter-FL lenses for landscape, costs much the same as running an all-Canon or all-Nikon system with the same focal length capabilities, but gives you better results.

I'd still like to see what Sony has in store for its 'pro-level' E-mount body, though - dual card slots, lossless RAW, even better AF (maybe 6D or 5D3 level using adapted lenses) and a bump in resolution to 54MP would be high on my list.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #199 on: August 12, 2015, 06:25:13 am »

I'd still like to see what Sony has in store for its 'pro-level' E-mount body, though - dual card slots, lossless RAW, even better AF (maybe 6D or 5D3 level using adapted lenses) and a bump in resolution to 54MP would be high on my list.

Yes, the a9r is likely to cost 4500 Euros though... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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