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Author Topic: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool  (Read 660548 times)

Tim Lookingbill

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1500 on: March 03, 2017, 04:26:58 am »

Here's an image to more clearly point out what I mean with what one could see as "livelier" skin-tones and "desirable hue shifts". I'm not saying that it's necessarily better, I personally prefer the NTRO rendering, but there may/might be elements to borrow from RGB-Lum.

I've marked the left cheek with a circle and split it in two. It looks like a "forbidden sign" I know, but it's entirely unintentional :-). The lower-left half the RGB-Lum is quite hue accurate, while in the brighter upper-right half there's some hue shift and stronger desaturation effect, while NTRO maintains correct hue better. In other words the RGB-Lum introduces some "artificial color separation" and gives a slightly more contrasty look despite having the same tone curve. (They're not ideally comparable as the global saturation of the RGB-Lum is a little bit lower than NTRO).

I don't really see any issues with hue/saturation shifting between all three. I'm seeing a problem with NTRO and RGB-Lum curve shape that abruptly renders tone coming out of the eyelash and iris area of the models face that doesn't look right.

It's a look I've come to recognize just using ACR's default profile (which is not the cause) combined with Medium Tone Curve where it makes dark small detail in areas of eyes and tree foliage near black seem to appear like holes of pitch black due to there not being a more perceptually smooth and even grade out of these areas.

The linear version in the middle appears to need only a small increase of local contrast provided by a broad and gentle S-curve combined with a bit of Clarity.
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torger

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1501 on: March 03, 2017, 04:50:05 am »

I don't really see any issues with hue/saturation shifting between all three. I'm seeing a problem with NTRO and RGB-Lum curve shape that abruptly renders tone coming out of the eyelash and iris area of the models face that doesn't look right.

I should probably have used a softer tone curve, and indeed it's common to do that with portraits. This one has a quite strong shadow dip, that's what's making eyes and the lips a little bit too dark in the NTRO too. It's not a default Adobe curve, it's one of my own, not adapted for portraits though.

In most cases with most profiles ACR applies automatic black subtraction, which increases contrast and makes dark stuff go close to black or even clip to black. C1 also seems to apply automatic black subtraction, and in-camera JPEGs generally also do, so it's typical. The strength of it varies between converters though. In these example images no black subtraction has been done, but instead a curve with a stronger shadow dip has been used that emulates the effect of a typical black subtraction -- which as you point out is actually too strong for this portrait.
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Frederic_H

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1502 on: March 03, 2017, 01:22:21 pm »

Even though the curve is a bit too strong for portraits, I quite like the NTRO and RGB-Lum results.

On a totally different note, I'd be interested in the ability to apply a 3D Lut "look" to a colorimetric base profile, and save the resulting profile so it could be used in C1 for instance.
Designing/editing LUTs with 3DLut Creator or similar programs is fairly easy these days. Being able to incorporate those directly into a profile would be really great AFAIC.

ps : I *do* know you're not into "look", Anders, but NTRO is already one, sort of ;)
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1503 on: March 03, 2017, 02:26:47 pm »

In most cases with most profiles ACR applies automatic black subtraction, which increases contrast and makes dark stuff go close to black or even clip to black. C1 also seems to apply automatic black subtraction, and in-camera JPEGs generally also do, so it's typical. The strength of it varies between converters though. In these example images no black subtraction has been done, but instead a curve with a stronger shadow dip has been used that emulates the effect of a typical black subtraction -- which as you point out is actually too strong for this portrait.
I totally agree with you on the black subtraction of Raw converters in general. But from editing over 1000 Raws and sensing a pattern of tonal distribution characteristics in the shadow portion of the base tone curve to normalize a dark linear rendering after demosaicing that suggests the wonky shaped portion of this base tone curve is the real culprit in this. It's compounded by under exposures for preserving highlights in high contrast scenes like sunset lit clouds while attempting to lift shadows in foreground objects like tree foliage or rocks.

The blonde model sample image had her eyeliner reading 000RGB black before I noticed ACR applied +5 on the Black slider. What's particularly interesting about this issue is how much this affects overall contrast and thus this perceptually smooth gradation out of black.

That's why I set my ACR defaults zeroing out the Black slider and use the Parametric curve settings shown in the screengrab below which points to this nonlinear gradation behavior of tone coming out of black (that the base tone curve should fix but doesn't) that prevents or fights my applying a perceptually smooth gradation and leaving me with what appears as black dropout holes in the image even when they read above 555RGB black.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 02:31:24 pm by Tim Lookingbill »
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jrp

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1504 on: March 04, 2017, 12:16:17 pm »

Well this is hard. I don't much like any of the portrait shots, at least as rendered through a web browser. They look more they seem too contrasty and saturated (other than the linear one, which looks slightly corpse-like, perhaps because the colour balance is off).

For landscape / cityscape shots, a bit of excess colour saturation and lots of colour separation are what is needed.

This is interesting research, Anders. Makes you wonder why the likes of dxo choose to use the Adobe RGB space internally.

Makes you wonder whether it would not be easier to make the aim to be to produce an image that does not aim to be particularly pleasing but one that maximises the opportunities for customised enhancement. This is probably what your neutral rendition aims to do, or you could argue that the linear version does this.

As things stand, trying to tune the rendition by producing a bespoke camera profile may just be too difficult for users without your understanding of colour theory.
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torger

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1505 on: March 06, 2017, 03:45:56 am »

Even though the curve is a bit too strong for portraits, I quite like the NTRO and RGB-Lum results.

On a totally different note, I'd be interested in the ability to apply a 3D Lut "look" to a colorimetric base profile, and save the resulting profile so it could be used in C1 for instance.
Designing/editing LUTs with 3DLut Creator or similar programs is fairly easy these days. Being able to incorporate those directly into a profile would be really great AFAIC.

ps : I *do* know you're not into "look", Anders, but NTRO is already one, sort of ;)

You will be able to design looks and apply to a colorimetric base profile in the GUI, I do like the concept of subjective adjustments, although I don't aim for very strong looks though so the GUI is not well suited to design any sort of look, more like fine-tuning the base result out of the tone operator. I don't have any integration by third-party LUT formats yet though like from 3D Lut creator, and it probably won't be in the first version, but it sounds like an interesting idea. It would probably be quite easy to implement. I think I'll have a look. The more stuff I put in there, the more I delay a release though... :-)
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torger

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1506 on: March 06, 2017, 04:41:31 am »

I came up with an answer to "what's the perfect RGB color space for the RGB curve?". Why not take the purest red possible with the purest blue and green, and move it all the way to the Locus and make a color space out of that? The idea is that the color space should be as balanced as possible, so when you for example apply an adjustment to the green channel it doesn't skew the red/blue balance.

The problem is how do we define the purest red/green/blue? Well, we need to look into some color appearance model, and CIECAM02 is pretty good. Just look at which angles you can get the highest saturation out of red/green/blue. In CIECAM02 you get that red at ~27.0 degrees, green at ~147.2 degrees and blue at ~248.1. Interestingly enough this color space ends up pretty close to the manually adjusted prophoto space I used in previous experiments. Reds get rendered a bit darker though, so you get a bit more contrast in the portrait example.

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torger

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1507 on: March 06, 2017, 06:07:09 am »

Well this is hard. I don't much like any of the portrait shots, at least as rendered through a web browser. They look more they seem too contrasty and saturated (other than the linear one, which looks slightly corpse-like, perhaps because the colour balance is off).

For landscape / cityscape shots, a bit of excess colour saturation and lots of colour separation are what is needed.

This is interesting research, Anders. Makes you wonder why the likes of dxo choose to use the Adobe RGB space internally.

Makes you wonder whether it would not be easier to make the aim to be to produce an image that does not aim to be particularly pleasing but one that maximises the opportunities for customised enhancement. This is probably what your neutral rendition aims to do, or you could argue that the linear version does this.

As things stand, trying to tune the rendition by producing a bespoke camera profile may just be too difficult for users without your understanding of colour theory.

Skintones is much more than just the profile. It's the makeup, the lighting, the model, the white balance, and the colorimetric precision of the profile which as said is not a part of that series of experiments as I didn't really have a quality X1D target shot, just a less-than-optimal H5D-50c shot (but usually it doesn't make that big a difference, it's quite robust). I compared to Hassy's JPEG to check that it was not too off.

What I look at in this experiment is the effect of the tone operators, how they change the look in the linear reference shot. I put little value into if the reference shot looks good or not. I don't it's a task of the profile to change a real scene you don't like into a picture you like, and even quite heavily subjective profiles doesn't do that either, they mostly just enhance what's there.

I've noted that Adobe does what you suggest for some camera profiles, that is make something that's not really much of a finished look, but more like a starting-point for creative post-processing. If I remember correctly the A7r-II and Pentax 645z stock profiles are like that, the stock profiles produce an undersaturated look, not particularly pleasing nor realistic, but low saturation profiles are more stable and can as such be better if you make heavy post-processing anyway.

Indeed the NTRO can be used for this too. It's agnostic about the tone curve, and a post-process-friendly profile would have quite low contrast, little shadow dip, and if DCP you'd disable black subtraction which you can do with a profile flag. It's also easy to control the overall saturation with the chroma scaling parameter which I've exposed in the GUI. With weaker contrast the NTRO result will be increasingly close to RGB-Lum to finally end up the same as linear.

I'm not too worried that it would be too difficult to make a bespoke profile. Or rather, I don't think the majority will want to do that. The result using defaults is intended to be really good, and I think it is. The typical purpose of using DCamProf is if you just want a profile that produces a neutral realistic but still attractive result, and this is what the default will provide.

But then there are those special users that want to tune stuff. You still don't need to know particulary much color theory to do so, it won't help you much. What will help you is a good monitor in good viewing conditions and a good eye for color. That last one is the most difficult. Most can say which one of A and B they prefer, but few can say why they do it, and even fewer how to modify the color to get it there. It's difficult to me too, so it's generally a bit of trial-and-error involved. The problem won't be knowledge of color science, but knowing what one wants, and having the eyes to tune it.

The discussions here become quite technical, as it's about the implementation. In the end I just put in the curve color space into the software and you don't get to choose it, as for the moment I don't see any reason to make it configurable. It may be that in the command line software though, which will allow for more experimentation than the GUI. In the GUI I try shave off things that is more a curiousity than important to configure for bespoke profiles.

That DxO is using AdobeRGB as working space I guess is just a design choice. If you indeed know that no user will want to have more saturated colors than AdobeRGB provides, then setting that as a fixed working space and compressing colors to that will simplify things. I'd think it's a bit small though, and with video standards becoming increasingly popular AdobeRGB may fall out of fashion in favour of colorspaces like Rec2020. So for the moment I prefer to provide an oversized colorspace with various gamut compression options.
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ErikKaffehr

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Hi, some real world images from Tim Ashley…
« Reply #1508 on: March 06, 2017, 02:12:28 pm »

Hi,

That lady portrait is quite horrible, IMHO.

Tim Ashely shared some raw images which may or may not be usable, he even included a ColorChecker shot.

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-and-digital-backs/61114-someone-having-decent-raw-x1d-share.html#post722738

Keep on mind that Tim just shot some raw files to share, most kind of him. Just some honest snapshots, I would guess.

Best regards
Erik
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Erik Kaffehr
 

torger

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1509 on: March 07, 2017, 03:16:33 am »

Raw files of professionally made portraits with models with makeup are pretty hard to come by, especially if you want a colorchecker shot with it. I'm not a professional portrait photographer myself so I don't have any of my own. It's a popular reference subject for "skintones", although everyday people without makeup is probably just as important (I have more of those images...).

And somehow people always complain about the quality of the portraits :-), I guess most have a very narrow taste when it comes to how a portrait may look. I think one of the reasons is that "great portraits" we are used to see really are quite heavily post-processed.

To me it's just a standard lit 1A portrait, and as such is useful to demonstrate several aspects of skintones. The hue of the skin is not that important for evaluation, luckily as humans comes in all sorts of colors, however the brightness is. So it would be great with some examples of dark skin people too, which is even harder to come by. I've managed to find some IQ280 shots though, but I don't have an IQ180-IQ380 colorchecker shot, and the CFA of the 80MP CCD is not the same as the 60MP.

Back in the days films were quite "racist", was modeled after fair caucasian skin and rendered dark skin almost pitch black. This has fortunately changed since then. I can see in some camera models that the dark skintone patch is rendered lighter than it is with a linear matrix match, so the color filters in the camera can have compensation too. The contrast curves of today's digital are also less extreme than yesterday's color photography so it's less of a problem.
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Frederic_H

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1510 on: March 07, 2017, 05:02:13 am »

You will be able to design looks and apply to a colorimetric base profile in the GUI, I do like the concept of subjective adjustments, although I don't aim for very strong looks though so the GUI is not well suited to design any sort of look, more like fine-tuning the base result out of the tone operator. I don't have any integration by third-party LUT formats yet though like from 3D Lut creator, and it probably won't be in the first version, but it sounds like an interesting idea. It would probably be quite easy to implement. I think I'll have a look. The more stuff I put in there, the more I delay a release though... :-)
Thanks for considering it :)

I'm not using LUTs for strong effects either, more like adjustments making my post-processing easier and faster. Desaturating close to neutrals except in the highlights, warming up shadows or desaturating dark blues, or fixing a specific color issue on a set of interior pictures are really easy to perform with LUTs.
I know the same can be achieved with dcamprof, but for now the instant visual feedback in 3D Lut Creator lets me get to the desired adjustments much quicker.
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torger

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1511 on: March 07, 2017, 05:59:37 am »

Thanks for considering it :)

I'm not using LUTs for strong effects either, more like adjustments making my post-processing easier and faster. Desaturating close to neutrals except in the highlights, warming up shadows or desaturating dark blues, or fixing a specific color issue on a set of interior pictures are really easy to perform with LUTs.
I know the same can be achieved with dcamprof, but for now the instant visual feedback in 3D Lut Creator lets me get to the desired adjustments much quicker.

In the GUI version there's a tool that is similar to the color editor in Capture One, with realtime(ish) update. Those changes you mention above I think will be quite effective to do with that. At least that's the intention :)

Regarding development status I'm now in a phase where I'm not implementing new features but stabilizing and testing. I would think it's ~2 months until a release, but it can change depending on how busy I get with other projects and if I can't avoid adding some additional "must have" feature... At some point it's better to get something out than trying to have every aspect perfect though, but it needs to be more worked through than a first release of an open-source project as there will be paying customers.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 06:09:54 am by torger »
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torger

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1512 on: March 10, 2017, 05:36:07 am »

By the way anyone who know of public data for

1) X-Rite Coler-checker passport, preferably including spectral data
2) Datacolor SpyderCheckr, preferably including spectral data

...I'd like to include it in future revisions of DCamProf and the GUI.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1513 on: March 10, 2017, 06:00:03 am »

By the way anyone who know of public data for

1) X-Rite Coler-checker passport, preferably including spectral data
2) Datacolor SpyderCheckr, preferably including spectral data

...I'd like to include it in future revisions of DCamProf and the GUI.

Hi Anders,

You probably already know of Babelcolor's ColorChecker pages with on page 2 links to (spectral) data from the various ColorChecker cards.

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

torger

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1514 on: March 10, 2017, 08:18:39 am »

Hi Anders,

You probably already know of Babelcolor's ColorChecker pages with on page 2 links to (spectral) data from the various ColorChecker cards.

Cheers,
Bart

I already have good data with spectrum for before and after 2014 X-Rite Colorchecker. I don't have spectrum for all patches on a colorchecker passport though, and not for SpyderCheckr. I'd also need a source where it's okay to redistribute with both free (DCamProf) and commercial (upcoming Lumariver Profile Designer, ie DCamProf GUI).

SpydrCheckr without spectra is here http://spyder.datacolor.com/wp-content/uploads/datacolorproductliterature/SpyderCheckr%20Color%20Data.pdf seems to be Lab values with D65 whitepoint.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 08:53:11 am by torger »
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scyth

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1515 on: March 10, 2017, 05:59:46 pm »


2) Datacolor SpyderCheckr, preferably including spectral data


I am not sure why 'd u bother with DataColor target - the quality of patches (how they are painted) are subpar vs X-Rite products... however, feel free to use w/o any strings attached whatsoever the following, this is from a sample DataColor SpyderChecKR 24.... spectrolino was re-calibrated 3 times before each row (6 patches) reading started, instrument was covered by black cloth for each calibration / patch reading to prevent any foregin light leaks :

Quote
CGATS.17
DESCRIPTOR   "DataColor SpyderCheckr 24 (3810-0337, 22964416-C19D2A-BFC48C-4B48) Spectral Measurement, 1 pass, 380nm : 10.0nm : 730nm, with Spectronio, S/N 17984, Part No: 36.55.52, P/D 9/8/2004, firmware 1.68"
ORIGINATOR   "BabelColor PatchTool, version 5.1.0 b409 with the data from: spotread.exe -v -A N -s"
LGOROWLENGTH   4
CREATED   "2017-03-10"  # Time: 17:47:30
INSTRUMENTATION   "Spectrolino"
MEASUREMENT_SOURCE   "Illumination=D50 ObserverAngle=2 WhiteBase=Abs Filter=No"
ILLUMINATION_NAME   "D50"
OBSERVER_ANGLE   "2"
FILTER   "Unknown"
MEASUREMENT_CONDITION   "M0"
WEIGHTING_FUNCTION   "ILLUMINANT, D50"
WEIGHTING_FUNCTION   "OBSERVER, 2 degree"
KEYWORD   "DEVCALSTD"
DEVCALSTD   "GMDI"
#
KEYWORD   "SAMPLE_ID"
KEYWORD   "SAMPLE_NAME"
NUMBER_OF_FIELDS   46
BEGIN_DATA_FORMAT
SAMPLE_ID   SAMPLE_NAME   XYZ_X   XYZ_Y   XYZ_Z   LAB_L   LAB_A   LAB_B   LAB_C   LAB_H   nm380   nm390   nm400   nm410   nm420   nm430   nm440   nm450   nm460   nm470   nm480   nm490   nm500   nm510   nm520   nm530   nm540   nm550   nm560   nm570   nm580   nm590   nm600   nm610   nm620   nm630   nm640   nm650   nm660   nm670   nm680   nm690   nm700   nm710   nm720   nm730
END_DATA_FORMAT
NUMBER_OF_SETS   24
BEGIN_DATA
1   1   29.132137   40.170447   31.747831   69.5908   -33.4205   2.1125   33.49   176.4   0.108360   0.162790   0.237760   0.284860   0.300000   0.312580   0.326830   0.347430   0.378260   0.419010   0.463690   0.512960   0.553390   0.571310   0.565800   0.542300   0.507790   0.464690   0.415240   0.369960   0.327610   0.286320   0.246290   0.217540   0.202940   0.197140   0.194730   0.193830   0.196620   0.204270   0.215710   0.228070   0.239280   0.244830   0.243300   0.244680
7   7   37.718350   28.096402   3.949050   59.9757   38.1912   58.3826   69.76   56.8   0.040170   0.041180   0.042230   0.042960   0.043520   0.044300   0.044490   0.046320   0.048060   0.047940   0.047130   0.049340   0.053340   0.055460   0.061350   0.084860   0.140950   0.205470   0.269030   0.331770   0.389850   0.451240   0.503980   0.540800   0.563910   0.581190   0.600080   0.620480   0.640120   0.656840   0.672630   0.693050   0.716680   0.740300   0.759030   0.774690
13   13   12.148603   17.726475   27.377056   49.1627   -30.2142   -26.1011   39.93   220.8   0.089310   0.126010   0.177300   0.214490   0.231750   0.251570   0.279120   0.312010   0.349790   0.392610   0.419400   0.425060   0.407890   0.372370   0.324030   0.269580   0.217450   0.170040   0.130150   0.103910   0.088650   0.079930   0.072870   0.068260   0.066400   0.065660   0.065520   0.066650   0.068340   0.069530   0.069290   0.068370   0.066800   0.066420   0.068600   0.073300
19   19   85.828391   88.920236   71.671770   95.5471   0.1645   1.5065   1.52   83.8   0.136030   0.215920   0.404750   0.667010   0.828640   0.862320   0.868720   0.873250   0.876950   0.880570   0.882780   0.885720   0.886180   0.887270   0.887860   0.886040   0.885830   0.886800   0.883990   0.885620   0.888550   0.893660   0.896350   0.898350   0.897420   0.897500   0.902330   0.909110   0.913790   0.915430   0.918470   0.920440   0.922690   0.926740   0.927970   0.927830
2   2   23.240182   22.223977   32.295751   54.2638   8.3018   -25.1452   26.48   288.3   0.116670   0.182730   0.293110   0.371720   0.392150   0.400020   0.406050   0.410260   0.409270   0.402040   0.384940   0.352020   0.309720   0.272910   0.237650   0.210970   0.201210   0.197280   0.189100   0.183670   0.189190   0.206530   0.224220   0.226320   0.215250   0.211900   0.231510   0.270630   0.317580   0.352450   0.364740   0.365110   0.369490   0.382460   0.398780   0.420200
8   8   11.340654   10.633763   26.367087   38.9567   8.0925   -41.9737   42.75   280.9   0.096860   0.143610   0.218210   0.278440   0.305550   0.326620   0.347960   0.362110   0.352450   0.325800   0.287600   0.236930   0.190870   0.157910   0.130400   0.110780   0.101280   0.093560   0.084210   0.077950   0.076450   0.077970   0.078850   0.077590   0.076230   0.078060   0.084800   0.095110   0.105100   0.108830   0.104620   0.099350   0.098320   0.102050   0.108380   0.116400
14   14   28.374129   18.216185   21.302905   49.7573   49.1331   -13.9694   51.08   344.1   0.113400   0.175100   0.273150   0.334140   0.338840   0.327160   0.304950   0.278700   0.252920   0.228390   0.201940   0.175970   0.157110   0.141130   0.119980   0.100710   0.094560   0.097090   0.095730   0.093720   0.108690   0.154110   0.228270   0.347720   0.492870   0.603010   0.674780   0.722630   0.754390   0.773000   0.782900   0.790310   0.801740   0.815110   0.826920   0.839460
20   20   54.379152   56.361742   45.730464   79.8193   0.0835   0.9321   0.94   84.9   0.133160   0.210030   0.361290   0.501980   0.543230   0.549160   0.554210   0.558090   0.558570   0.557960   0.556470   0.556910   0.557570   0.558860   0.561130   0.562040   0.562890   0.563040   0.562530   0.565330   0.566550   0.568020   0.567700   0.567890   0.566700   0.565140   0.564540   0.564170   0.563030   0.561170   0.559690   0.557750   0.556620   0.555970   0.554550   0.552640
3   3   9.943611   12.193913   5.016540   41.5227   -13.4712   20.5388   24.56   123.3   0.045320   0.051010   0.057820   0.060410   0.057700   0.055540   0.054070   0.054170   0.055650   0.058840   0.065040   0.074700   0.086710   0.101900   0.126310   0.151510   0.161400   0.154460   0.140140   0.127010   0.116730   0.108820   0.101390   0.094500   0.090220   0.088710   0.088790   0.089400   0.091430   0.096350   0.103570   0.112770   0.123210   0.130690   0.132700   0.133960
9   9   28.921080   18.838315   10.135851   50.4975   48.0658   15.2358   50.42   17.6   0.090530   0.117320   0.140950   0.144740   0.139880   0.135080   0.131270   0.126390   0.121650   0.117620   0.112490   0.106560   0.102250   0.098460   0.093290   0.088900   0.088600   0.092770   0.097930   0.104210   0.131800   0.220460   0.354280   0.471970   0.547690   0.586510   0.604860   0.614250   0.618650   0.620200   0.621230   0.621910   0.623370   0.625840   0.625690   0.626770
15   15   60.634117   60.858251   6.709872   82.3025   4.6476   82.8433   82.97   86.8   0.047960   0.047330   0.047520   0.047420   0.047830   0.049180   0.050790   0.053390   0.059980   0.074040   0.099850   0.141440   0.205030   0.289320   0.386320   0.498430   0.613350   0.685990   0.716870   0.737430   0.750430   0.754260   0.743780   0.728260   0.717980   0.715480   0.717400   0.721460   0.730400   0.742110   0.755260   0.770050   0.789280   0.802270   0.804360   0.811750
21   21   33.055217   34.255219   27.747783   65.1646   0.0882   0.8664   0.87   84.2   0.117460   0.176620   0.261850   0.314020   0.324730   0.329780   0.335660   0.339700   0.340050   0.338770   0.337280   0.337120   0.337490   0.339000   0.340580   0.341440   0.341990   0.342400   0.341720   0.343490   0.344750   0.346710   0.346970   0.346170   0.344100   0.342070   0.341290   0.341310   0.340290   0.338250   0.336000   0.333660   0.331930   0.331250   0.330530   0.329840
4   4   16.235624   17.788109   25.465207   49.2381   -5.0997   -22.6701   23.24   257.3   0.109560   0.166520   0.255210   0.319490   0.335510   0.335240   0.330100   0.322690   0.311930   0.298930   0.285030   0.271070   0.256130   0.240630   0.224710   0.207960   0.192020   0.177790   0.165330   0.156130   0.148420   0.142050   0.136510   0.131910   0.128110   0.124850   0.123850   0.124810   0.126070   0.127040   0.127980   0.130530   0.135750   0.143030   0.150390   0.156960
10   10   8.845869   6.743107   11.792594   31.2148   21.9925   -23.1559   31.94   313.5   0.081940   0.110730   0.151250   0.174930   0.185970   0.187880   0.178390   0.161080   0.140410   0.121050   0.102100   0.083530   0.071080   0.063310   0.056540   0.051660   0.050520   0.051350   0.051360   0.052610   0.057860   0.068580   0.082350   0.088910   0.083620   0.081330   0.093860   0.128030   0.196860   0.301450   0.425910   0.549140   0.652630   0.728580   0.778200   0.810430
16   16   21.462040   11.987628   3.645325   41.1964   56.4795   27.9159   63.00   26.3   0.056870   0.054180   0.052120   0.050710   0.048970   0.047870   0.046060   0.044540   0.043240   0.042140   0.041230   0.040780   0.040520   0.040770   0.041250   0.040890   0.040980   0.042630   0.045680   0.049880   0.059060   0.097350   0.178490   0.291860   0.427760   0.563260   0.665630   0.729330   0.765460   0.781360   0.783820   0.787950   0.803080   0.821480   0.835520   0.848580
22   22   17.771757   18.445763   14.983140   50.0324   -0.0767   0.6002   0.61   97.3   0.091670   0.124170   0.158050   0.173440   0.176160   0.178410   0.181780   0.183990   0.183330   0.182040   0.181010   0.180790   0.181110   0.182280   0.183540   0.184350   0.184680   0.184720   0.184350   0.185520   0.186260   0.186830   0.186440   0.185640   0.184510   0.182990   0.181770   0.180890   0.179460   0.178070   0.176700   0.175390   0.174050   0.172950   0.171720   0.170400
5   5   37.374825   33.341760   17.947940   64.4367   17.8494   18.4103   25.64   45.9   0.099590   0.137230   0.178470   0.195930   0.196660   0.196580   0.198150   0.203000   0.212190   0.225140   0.242900   0.263840   0.279550   0.284550   0.282280   0.276880   0.269730   0.265030   0.269900   0.287380   0.324480   0.412150   0.471950   0.494650   0.504600   0.512710   0.525050   0.541930   0.563140   0.589840   0.622940   0.661360   0.704690   0.749020   0.787510   0.819790
11   11   33.943447   42.279697   8.136953   71.0633   -22.2304   57.7133   61.85   111.1   0.058570   0.065560   0.067290   0.067010   0.066970   0.068520   0.069840   0.072750   0.078590   0.089560   0.110750   0.151310   0.224840   0.329830   0.437420   0.509480   0.532570   0.526350   0.508870   0.489770   0.460640   0.418530   0.368300   0.329170   0.307270   0.296900   0.291380   0.288020   0.291070   0.302330   0.319650   0.339650   0.358540   0.367700   0.363880   0.365220
17   17   13.521294   21.292530   6.748263   53.2682   -38.8044   32.6193   50.69   139.9   0.048470   0.051830   0.054490   0.055690   0.056700   0.058090   0.060480   0.064130   0.069630   0.078900   0.096370   0.126540   0.173900   0.229650   0.276480   0.308210   0.323160   0.310470   0.271560   0.226990   0.186150   0.148980   0.113710   0.088290   0.074820   0.068540   0.065020   0.062120   0.061160   0.062240   0.064960   0.069380   0.074070   0.076710   0.075520   0.073910
23   23   7.994945   8.293339   6.702184   34.5865   -0.0165   0.6075   0.61   91.6   0.059900   0.070660   0.079540   0.081330   0.081500   0.081590   0.082260   0.082160   0.081430   0.080500   0.079660   0.079440   0.079360   0.079610   0.080550   0.082460   0.084500   0.084970   0.084040   0.083670   0.083660   0.084170   0.083900   0.083370   0.082540   0.081780   0.081130   0.080610   0.079990   0.079380   0.078590   0.078020   0.077490   0.077090   0.076460   0.076020
6   6   10.613477   9.165177   4.620120   36.3004   14.1898   13.6634   19.70   43.9   0.048200   0.050180   0.050960   0.052390   0.053350   0.054690   0.055710   0.055950   0.056180   0.055820   0.055670   0.055860   0.057230   0.060170   0.066070   0.071680   0.073610   0.074630   0.078090   0.087550   0.101820   0.116760   0.127730   0.134910   0.139890   0.144780   0.151290   0.160270   0.172340   0.188060   0.208480   0.233520   0.263360   0.296390   0.328810   0.358710
12   12   48.668431   41.721694   5.755508   70.6786   24.4841   67.1218   71.45   70.0   0.048580   0.050180   0.052400   0.052760   0.053550   0.055200   0.056950   0.059440   0.062800   0.068610   0.077800   0.091890   0.111450   0.138150   0.179270   0.241840   0.320310   0.392160   0.440820   0.477570   0.528220   0.621370   0.656220   0.660400   0.660750   0.660270   0.663530   0.669180   0.676610   0.684980   0.694280   0.707590   0.725420   0.745380   0.762690   0.778440
18   18   6.221247   5.116482   19.017924   27.0641   14.9189   -48.3693   50.62   287.1   0.056280   0.066370   0.086190   0.110220   0.127910   0.159590   0.222270   0.286380   0.296720   0.277450   0.228350   0.166810   0.112490   0.074270   0.052860   0.042920   0.038890   0.036750   0.035760   0.035340   0.035190   0.035310   0.035390   0.035860   0.036500   0.036840   0.037300   0.037840   0.037990   0.037920   0.037750   0.037950   0.038410   0.040200   0.042460   0.045650
24   24   2.455784   2.551778   2.163518   18.1512   -0.0946   -0.5323   0.54   259.9   0.025560   0.026300   0.026790   0.026620   0.026480   0.026580   0.026340   0.026180   0.026340   0.026060   0.025920   0.025980   0.025870   0.025810   0.025770   0.025630   0.025590   0.025570   0.025460   0.025500   0.025360   0.025340   0.025310   0.025310   0.025220   0.025110   0.025130   0.025250   0.025160   0.025350   0.025070   0.025150   0.025300   0.025270   0.025270   0.025520
END_DATA



this was one pass (not averaged), however here is the consistency vs a 2nd measurement with the same instrument and same protocol



so shall be OK
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 06:13:54 pm by scyth »
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torger

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1516 on: March 12, 2017, 09:45:42 am »

Thanks! I guess you don't have for the 48 patch version? The 24 will do though. The reason I'm including it is that it's the second most common target after X-Rite's (I think) so people may having one laying around so I thought it would be nice to provide some basic support, despite that it's not the best product.
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torger

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1517 on: March 13, 2017, 10:36:36 am »

So, spectral files for X-Rite ColorChecker Classic, pre 2014 and new, ColorChecker SG pre 2014 and new, QP-Card 202/203, SpyderCheckr 24, and an IT8.7 Reflective target, plus custom targets (rectangular grids), and free-form grids (for a collection individual patches of whatever in for multi-target setups).

What I'm still sort of missing is ColorChecker Passport. You can use the ColorChecker Classic data of course which should be close (not sure if it's exactly the same though), but it would be nice to support both pages.

Is there a spectral measurement of that available somewhere?
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scyth

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1518 on: March 13, 2017, 04:25:00 pm »

So, spectral files for X-Rite ColorChecker Classic, pre 2014 and new, ColorChecker SG pre 2014 and new, QP-Card 202/203, SpyderCheckr 24, and an IT8.7 Reflective target, plus custom targets (rectangular grids), and free-form grids (for a collection individual patches of whatever in for multi-target setups).

What I'm still sort of missing is ColorChecker Passport. You can use the ColorChecker Classic data of course which should be close (not sure if it's exactly the same though), but it would be nice to support both pages.

Is there a spectral measurement of that available somewhere?

I can measure, but my sample of X-Rite Passport is quite old (not in terms of exposure to any light - but when it was made) and even w/ X-Rite you don't know if there were any changes or not ... I mean it is not like X-Rite suddenly volunteered about pre 2014/post 2014 changes for CC24/CCSG a year+ later after the fact, but was rather bugged by customers...

But it is better to ask Iliah Borg if he can contribute his data specifically for DCamProf & whatever (non free) software you develop - as he owns much-much better equipment for reflective spectral measurements (albeit the point of getting so "precise" data he will of course question, I bet)
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scyth

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Re: DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool
« Reply #1519 on: March 13, 2017, 05:52:22 pm »

feel free to use w/o any strings attached whatsoever the following, this is from a sample of X-Rite Passport's ColorChecker Page.... i1Pro2 & tile/target were covered by black cloth for each calibration / patch reading to prevent any foregn light leaks, averaged from 3 passess :

Quote
CGATS.17
DESCRIPTOR   "X-Rite Passport S/N 008784, ColorChecker Page, 3 passes/averaged, 380nm : 10.0nm : 730nm, with i1Pro2"
ORIGINATOR   "BabelColor PatchTool, version 5.1.0 b409"
LGOROWLENGTH   4
CREATED   "2017-03-13"  # Time: 17:43:34
INSTRUMENTATION   "i1Pro2, S/N 1044184, with 'Lamp Restore' before each pass"
MEASUREMENT_SOURCE   "Illumination=D50 ObserverAngle=2 WhiteBase=Abs Filter=No"
ILLUMINATION_NAME   "D50"
OBSERVER_ANGLE   "2"
FILTER   "Unknown"
MEASUREMENT_CONDITION   "M0"
WEIGHTING_FUNCTION   "ILLUMINANT, D50"
WEIGHTING_FUNCTION   "OBSERVER, 2 degree"
KEYWORD   "DEVCALSTD"
DEVCALSTD   "XRGA"
#
KEYWORD   "SAMPLE_ID"
NUMBER_OF_FIELDS   42
BEGIN_DATA_FORMAT
SAMPLE_ID   LAB_L   LAB_A   LAB_B   LAB_C   LAB_H   nm380   nm390   nm400   nm410   nm420   nm430   nm440   nm450   nm460   nm470   nm480   nm490   nm500   nm510   nm520   nm530   nm540   nm550   nm560   nm570   nm580   nm590   nm600   nm610   nm620   nm630   nm640   nm650   nm660   nm670   nm680   nm690   nm700   nm710   nm720   nm730
END_DATA_FORMAT
NUMBER_OF_SETS   24
BEGIN_DATA
1   39.4235   13.6420   14.7292   20.08   47.2   0.054323   0.061430   0.064497   0.065727   0.065567   0.065013   0.065197   0.065177   0.065393   0.065393   0.065537   0.066423   0.068947   0.074923   0.082027   0.085487   0.086950   0.089727   0.095770   0.107790   0.124053   0.139443   0.147693   0.151227   0.157223   0.168960   0.183893   0.197623   0.206273   0.205387   0.196127   0.187867   0.189767   0.199357   0.212033   0.228843
2   63.0527   34.7398   57.6569   67.31   58.9   0.049753   0.052137   0.054180   0.055090   0.055723   0.056037   0.056460   0.057080   0.057780   0.058587   0.060260   0.063297   0.070773   0.093640   0.134200   0.165327   0.182713   0.205203   0.251853   0.335850   0.443080   0.539497   0.588617   0.598283   0.596017   0.593650   0.592187   0.592827   0.600860   0.617577   0.638103   0.656363   0.671253   0.676397   0.672853   0.676937
3   29.9762   14.9465   -48.9216   51.15   287.0   0.069193   0.107640   0.157050   0.200683   0.231177   0.259480   0.289403   0.309053   0.303377   0.275497   0.231880   0.178920   0.133440   0.099007   0.072517   0.057817   0.051533   0.047143   0.043313   0.041670   0.041753   0.042257   0.042133   0.041780   0.042213   0.044447   0.049563   0.057587   0.065767   0.068577   0.064487   0.060243   0.060690   0.065153   0.073650   0.088133
4   96.9587   -0.8060   4.5231   4.59   100.1   0.140963   0.223867   0.396870   0.625843   0.779280   0.827933   0.846710   0.861647   0.875410   0.884560   0.892443   0.900353   0.906603   0.910987   0.916167   0.920120   0.923780   0.926103   0.925940   0.929890   0.929393   0.930057   0.930150   0.930943   0.931287   0.931010   0.932063   0.933447   0.934860   0.934000   0.933227   0.932100   0.934203   0.935260   0.933933   0.935943
5   65.7260   19.7235   17.1096   26.11   40.9   0.095833   0.131417   0.166043   0.182107   0.187177   0.190870   0.197613   0.209367   0.229883   0.262420   0.300080   0.330810   0.347697   0.344077   0.308813   0.267597   0.255670   0.264887   0.266180   0.279643   0.335680   0.419090   0.488413   0.531463   0.557607   0.577400   0.597673   0.621027   0.648453   0.679750   0.715003   0.752107   0.789967   0.821847   0.845423   0.865250
6   39.9853   11.0436   -45.7504   47.06   283.6   0.096913   0.157520   0.234380   0.293713   0.329570   0.360207   0.389173   0.405880   0.401030   0.375067   0.330897   0.273640   0.219320   0.173837   0.136000   0.111690   0.099373   0.091297   0.083723   0.079493   0.079127   0.080820   0.082017   0.082243   0.082717   0.086690   0.096383   0.111977   0.132720   0.157877   0.186690   0.221323   0.264147   0.313137   0.363160   0.413220
7   55.4273   -38.0011   31.3003   49.23   140.5   0.048910   0.052213   0.054403   0.055773   0.057177   0.059277   0.062553   0.068710   0.080217   0.100960   0.132330   0.175637   0.230340   0.288673   0.327600   0.336603   0.326173   0.304517   0.276440   0.244990   0.205850   0.163597   0.128453   0.108077   0.098607   0.094463   0.092190   0.091297   0.093413   0.099557   0.108523   0.118207   0.126183   0.128337   0.125773   0.127717
8   81.3253   -0.6203   0.8342   1.04   126.6   0.134157   0.206230   0.344040   0.491420   0.559777   0.575283   0.582817   0.588390   0.589317   0.586723   0.584690   0.584717   0.585987   0.587227   0.589113   0.590897   0.592350   0.593100   0.592747   0.595463   0.595030   0.594067   0.591547   0.588960   0.585583   0.581937   0.579027   0.576770   0.574500   0.570610   0.566893   0.562930   0.561450   0.559293   0.555833   0.553993
9   49.8322   -5.2307   -22.0571   22.67   256.7   0.106927   0.168450   0.252323   0.310703   0.327350   0.330337   0.331137   0.328313   0.317943   0.301377   0.287690   0.278183   0.267270   0.252240   0.234203   0.212830   0.196017   0.185733   0.173860   0.157903   0.142777   0.135290   0.134337   0.136460   0.138710   0.140007   0.141467   0.145520   0.151563   0.154083   0.150580   0.143973   0.136170   0.130617   0.133453   0.148037
10   51.6703   49.3776   17.9426   52.54   20.0   0.087873   0.111653   0.131267   0.135180   0.132190   0.129237   0.126890   0.124847   0.121340   0.116183   0.110813   0.105843   0.101017   0.095807   0.091110   0.089123   0.089100   0.090443   0.093807   0.105703   0.155180   0.266640   0.403603   0.511080   0.571587   0.598180   0.608977   0.613383   0.615570   0.615133   0.614510   0.613620   0.615237   0.615847   0.614730   0.615853
11   43.6642   50.8524   28.6515   58.37   29.4   0.048817   0.050373   0.050670   0.051303   0.051123   0.051130   0.051037   0.051477   0.051110   0.050290   0.049530   0.049600   0.051123   0.054767   0.058440   0.059557   0.059093   0.058373   0.059783   0.066563   0.081800   0.124110   0.215983   0.347073   0.474523   0.557940   0.599090   0.618203   0.627877   0.632410   0.635620   0.638077   0.642433   0.645417   0.646507   0.649663
12   66.7963   -0.7783   0.3283   0.84   157.1   0.118367   0.181763   0.269553   0.329993   0.348920   0.355190   0.360980   0.365533   0.365967   0.363447   0.361370   0.361040   0.361840   0.362443   0.363700   0.364927   0.365747   0.365983   0.365403   0.366777   0.366407   0.365580   0.363380   0.360807   0.357657   0.354380   0.351853   0.349650   0.347253   0.343993   0.341083   0.337993   0.336370   0.334110   0.331013   0.329230
13   43.6602   -12.0357   21.5544   24.69   119.2   0.050817   0.055413   0.058593   0.059713   0.060080   0.060710   0.061783   0.063380   0.064983   0.066517   0.068373   0.071223   0.078927   0.104327   0.149523   0.179370   0.181413   0.168417   0.150000   0.135057   0.125940   0.120627   0.115087   0.110603   0.109683   0.112447   0.116567   0.119690   0.121207   0.120543   0.117883   0.115690   0.116877   0.120120   0.123347   0.127450
14   30.8835   22.2694   -19.1960   29.40   319.2   0.085530   0.122440   0.161450   0.179600   0.178753   0.168287   0.153047   0.137183   0.119663   0.102800   0.089117   0.077273   0.067720   0.061837   0.057747   0.053543   0.051273   0.051507   0.052397   0.051853   0.050220   0.051227   0.058453   0.075237   0.100337   0.127737   0.154950   0.184577   0.220123   0.265920   0.323447   0.393627   0.471770   0.548180   0.615437   0.671707
15   82.8863   3.2394   80.8508   80.92   87.7   0.058013   0.057563   0.057840   0.058363   0.058503   0.058897   0.060137   0.063060   0.068797   0.079180   0.099297   0.138950   0.210843   0.325417   0.467833   0.580847   0.642110   0.673813   0.692600   0.710153   0.721650   0.731420   0.738597   0.744937   0.749750   0.753527   0.757800   0.762253   0.766280   0.768240   0.769713   0.770970   0.775250   0.778173   0.779070   0.782380
16   50.8671   -0.1432   0.2247   0.27   122.5   0.093663   0.127157   0.159997   0.177737   0.182533   0.186177   0.190347   0.193360   0.193427   0.191657   0.190140   0.189543   0.189783   0.190017   0.190217   0.190447   0.190863   0.191267   0.191350   0.193053   0.194800   0.196080   0.195133   0.192720   0.189400   0.186590   0.184783   0.183503   0.182140   0.180560   0.179213   0.177757   0.177153   0.175823   0.173900   0.172450
17   55.3222   8.5829   -23.9750   25.46   289.7   0.117973   0.195927   0.314020   0.405847   0.434410   0.435940   0.430130   0.421573   0.405467   0.381897   0.358620   0.333890   0.307827   0.282767   0.257293   0.233167   0.218770   0.212133   0.203467   0.194067   0.189697   0.194540   0.207660   0.224180   0.240873   0.263077   0.294363   0.328430   0.353750   0.357837   0.342757   0.328567   0.331753   0.347387   0.367893   0.395830
18   72.6258   -23.4345   56.4427   61.11   112.5   0.059633   0.061477   0.063667   0.064663   0.065460   0.066780   0.069513   0.075233   0.086960   0.110220   0.148273   0.203270   0.277480   0.375157   0.474773   0.535580   0.555533   0.550843   0.531333   0.505190   0.468790   0.425557   0.381543   0.349807   0.331887   0.322387   0.316323   0.312633   0.314730   0.323927   0.337540   0.350997   0.361670   0.363970   0.359293   0.360257
19   52.8978   50.3977   -12.6869   51.97   345.9   0.109733   0.176390   0.274863   0.342673   0.359917   0.352473   0.333813   0.310857   0.283197   0.253653   0.223543   0.194533   0.172563   0.154227   0.130373   0.109127   0.103440   0.108463   0.110633   0.118227   0.149000   0.206133   0.288440   0.403850   0.539670   0.657307   0.737223   0.784967   0.812487   0.827130   0.835377   0.840670   0.847373   0.851980   0.853513   0.857297
20   35.9982   -0.7639   -0.8198   1.12   227.0   0.069873   0.079067   0.087703   0.090900   0.091413   0.092060   0.093537   0.094260   0.093483   0.092027   0.090870   0.090503   0.090533   0.090723   0.090970   0.091260   0.091267   0.091100   0.090700   0.090830   0.090470   0.089883   0.088950   0.088007   0.086907   0.085710   0.084670   0.083853   0.083110   0.082120   0.081150   0.080367   0.079820   0.079210   0.078373   0.077980
21   70.5440   -33.7237   -0.3952   33.73   180.7   0.109977   0.168633   0.242387   0.293417   0.317233   0.333863   0.353037   0.379777   0.420133   0.470357   0.515297   0.549767   0.568607   0.572230   0.564923   0.547947   0.522427   0.487977   0.446173   0.401323   0.349653   0.295023   0.245403   0.212743   0.196247   0.188550   0.184083   0.181960   0.185473   0.195690   0.209233   0.221930   0.231063   0.232423   0.227380   0.228340
22   72.1878   19.2226   68.6255   71.27   74.4   0.058570   0.061300   0.063413   0.064297   0.064307   0.064727   0.065237   0.066320   0.067257   0.068187   0.069853   0.073333   0.082997   0.118853   0.207383   0.317450   0.397817   0.443900   0.476257   0.515523   0.558520   0.598010   0.624987   0.640790   0.649373   0.654420   0.659510   0.664650   0.669807   0.673400   0.677297   0.681020   0.687170   0.691827   0.694083   0.697963
23   50.4139   -27.8057   -28.3447   39.71   225.5   0.085787   0.131720   0.191280   0.237860   0.262627   0.286277   0.318640   0.353297   0.389400   0.424160   0.440383   0.437983   0.418310   0.382230   0.332400   0.278347   0.228157   0.182147   0.143310   0.116233   0.098960   0.088173   0.080057   0.074707   0.072243   0.071343   0.071223   0.072297   0.074327   0.075587   0.075227   0.073487   0.071517   0.070480   0.072523   0.078830
24   20.5523   -0.0334   -0.6690   0.67   267.1   0.033263   0.033553   0.033197   0.032800   0.032877   0.032780   0.032483   0.032367   0.032230   0.032200   0.031947   0.031820   0.031713   0.031653   0.031443   0.031423   0.031377   0.031357   0.031220   0.031260   0.031113   0.031033   0.030990   0.030990   0.030957   0.030953   0.030967   0.031067   0.031050   0.031057   0.031083   0.030993   0.031067   0.031227   0.031170   0.031177
END_DATA

consistency (worst off measurement vs averaged one) :


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