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Author Topic: Matte paper and Dmax  (Read 1046 times)

sharadn

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Matte paper and Dmax
« on: July 08, 2026, 02:23:27 pm »

I mainly buy my paper from Red River Paper and have used the Aurora Nat (and white) 300 gm and the Palo Duro Softgloss Rag. I have had very good results with the PDSGR on these printers (HPZ3200). Recently I ordered some premium matte to use for diagnostics and unclogging. I made the same print on on the Aurora white and the premium matte. I noticed the premium matte has a much better black. I tried printing the Aurora White with the a few different media types and ICC profiles and I could never get the blacks as good as on the premium matte. (I used the RRP profile for Aurora white and Hahnemuhle smooth art paper for the media type). I could not get the OMS for the Aurora to import to my HPZ3200 printer.
I asked this question to RRP and they suggested the Palo Duro Etching. I am not a big fan of watercolor like paper (textured) for my photographs. I guess I will order a sample and take a look.
Meanwhile I have to make some prints for a gallery and was planning on using the Aurora white but I like the look of the prints much better on premium matte. The gallery wants the prints on 100% cotton. Can someone point me towards a 100% matte paper that has a good Dmax (or as good as the RRP Premium Matte)? TIA
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Kyle Jackson

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Re: Matte paper and Dmax
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2026, 12:29:20 pm »

A couple of thoughts, no idea if they will help...

A paper's Dmax is partly influenced by the ink density and on the HPs there are 2 "controls" for this, as you probably already know.

The first is the "paper preset" you choose when you add a new paper type for calibration and profiling, it sets the baseline ink limit for that paper. Details are shown in HP's "working with other commercial papers" PDF documents. There's various versions floating around out there but here's one page with some excerpts/links:
http://z3200.com/Working_with_other%20Papers_HP-Z3100_z3200_Printers.htm

Note the wide range of ink limits for each paper preset, and also note that only a few use "quad black" printing using all 4 black-based inks (PK, MK, G, LG).

For example the ink limit for the Fine Art Paper More Ink (FAPMI) preset is 60 (the highest available with quad black), while the FAP Less Ink (FAPLI) is 42 (the highest available without quad black). These presets were often mentioned around here in the HP glory days; browse older threads for more info.

The second control is the ink density adjustment in HP Colour Centre which allows +/-20% ink density adjustment from the above baselines. You must recalibrate and reprofile after each change.

The problem with paper presets from paper brands (OMS files) is you don't know what settings they used for them (and ditto for their ICC profiles). Some can be very conservative (such as HP's own). Choosing your own preset based on the info above takes the guesswork out of it because you directly choose the ink limit (as well as the other settings). You can then try profiling with different preset / ink load combinations and compare their resulting Dmax, gamut volume, etc, to select what works best for you (I use GamutVision). I made significant gains in Dmax and gamut volume this way compared to default/canned settings (...up to a point). With HPs built-in specto making it so easy to run tests your only costs are paper and time.

***Note carefully in that "non-HP papers" PDF that you must add new papers via HP Colour Centre first *before* loading the roll in the machine. If instead you try to change the preset type of an already loaded roll it will not give correct results (at least in my experience).


The other topic is the paper itself. I use Ernst Dinkla's SpectrumViz to check paper properties for coatings / brighteners:
https://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

I don't know if the exact Red River papers you mentioned are in SpectrumViz but based on the ones I found in it it appears that the "Aurora White" is heavy with OBA/FBA (brighteners), so despite being "cotton rag" it's not archival. Its OBA/FBA signature is also very similar to their various "Premium Matte" papers.

Attached SpectrumViz screenshot shows "Aurora Nat" in green, "SoftGloss Rag" in red (both okay), and then "Aurora White" with the big OBA/FBA spike in yellow, and then the various "Premium Matte" papers with similar OBA/FBA spikes.

Ofc OBA/FBA and coatings can make prints look great (for a while...) so no surprise you're seeing significant differences.


So I think there's 2 tasks here: figuring out what the papers actually are (archival or non) rather than what they're branded as; then after you choose some to test, try using the available paper presets in the HP (such as FAPMI, etc) and the ink limit adjustment in HP Colour Centre to hopefully optimize the DMax, gamut volume, etc (if possible). If it's a reasonably heavy paper (~300 gsm ish) you could probably just use FAPMI and call it a day, not even bother with pushing the ink limit higher.

But no matter what you do you probably won't get results on an archival matte paper that have the same pop as the papers with OBA/FBA and/or coatings.

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sharadn

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Re: Matte paper and Dmax
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2026, 07:26:41 am »

Thank you for all the suggestions. These all take time which is something I do not have right now but are good for the long run. I have to provide these prints very soon and I will probably just switch to another paper, either Epson Legacy Fiber or Entrada.
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Kyle Jackson

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Re: Matte paper and Dmax
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2026, 08:04:56 am »


The fast way is to simply use HP Colour Centre to create a new paper type, select Fine Art Paper More Ink (FAPMI) for the preset, load the roll and let it run the cal and profile. Then use that ICC profile for printing (and skip any canned mfr profiles). That should be really close to the best the machine can deliver on that paper. Then just pick the "best" paper.

Fwiw I checked Red River's site and see "Aurora White" def has brighteners (OBA / FBA). Their marketing says "minimal optical brighteners", but if archival is important then to me that's like saying "minimal cancer"...

The same is true for Moab's "Entrada Rag Bright", from what I see in SpectrumViz. See screenshot, red curve.

The Epson "Legacy Fibre Rag" (blue), Moab "Entrada Rag Natural" (green), and Red River "Aurora Natural" (yellow) all appear to be OBA/FBA-free. Their curves are similar, with some differences in whiteness and brightness.
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sharadn

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Re: Matte paper and Dmax
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2026, 05:53:28 am »

I made my own ICC profile with the HP Spectro. The results are virtually the same as using the RRP profile. I would not be surprised if it was made on the HHPZ3200 as mine was. No visual change in DMax.
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Kyle Jackson

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Re: Matte paper and Dmax
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2026, 09:40:46 am »


Which paper preset did you use? And which Red River paper did you profile?

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kers

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Re: Matte paper and Dmax
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2026, 05:58:20 am »

like myself the Cansons Arches 88.
whitest matte paper without OBA and a very dark black.
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sharadn

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Re: Matte paper and Dmax
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2026, 09:17:27 am »

Which paper preset did you use? And which Red River paper did you profile?
FAMI; RRP Aurora White
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John Hollenberg

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Re: Matte paper and Dmax
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2026, 09:41:18 am »

like myself the Cansons Arches 88.
whitest matte paper without OBA and a very dark black.

Also the Canson BFK Rives Pure White which is the same paper with a bit of tooth and can make some images really come alive
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Kyle Jackson

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Re: Matte paper and Dmax
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2026, 10:01:46 am »

FAMI; RRP Aurora White

Ok makes sense. FAPMI is one of the go-to paper presets for that class of paper so there's a good chance it's what Red River used when they made their own profile. That's reassuring.

I'm just arm-chairing at this point since I've not used any of those papers, but the Aurora White doesn't make much sense to me personally. It presumably has the price premium of a cotton rag paper, in theory for longevity, and yet it still has OBA / FBA added to it which kind of defeats that. But maybe it's fine if it doesn't need to be the apex of archival, I dunno how picky your gallery is.

In any case not too surprising that you're seeing more "pop" on their "premium matte" paper since it has even more brighteners in it than the Aurora White. Your Aurora White profile is probably as good as you'll get on that paper. Maybe one of the other suggested papers are worth a try.

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